Jason Brown

[karne]

Well, they sent Max to Worlds in 2014 even though Jason was age-eligible, so it's not unprecedented even in the US. And in contrast to all the angst regarding Mirai, sending Max didn't stir up much controversy, even though Jason gave a stellar performance at Nats.

:scowl: No, instead Mirai ended up being the only one allowed to be upset about missing the Olympics, no-one else was allowed to be upset, who cares about Max he shouldn't be upset because OMG he got Worlds. Never mind that the Olympics was the prize, never mind that if he hadn't been named there he would have got NOTHING that season, never mind that he had to sit at home and watch Abbott WASTE the other spot that could have been his, but of course it will get dragged up forever and ever as some kind of incontrovertible proof that the USFS really loves Max and does him favours all the time. :scowl:

 

[ice coverage]

Well, they sent Max to Worlds in 2014 even though Jason was age-eligible, so it's not unprecedented even in the US. And in contrast to all the angst regarding Mirai, sending Max didn't stir up much controversy, even though Jason gave a stellar performance at Nats.

IMO:

You're comparing apples and oranges.

The controversy in the case of the ladies was almost entirely over the selection procedure for Sochi. Not for Worlds.

If Mirai (like Jason) had gone to Sochi and Ashley (like Max) had gone to Worlds, I don't think there would have been much "angst" over Ashley going to Worlds instead of Mirai.

 

[Mrs. P]

:scowl: No, instead Mirai ended up being the only one allowed to be upset about missing the Olympics, no-one else was allowed to be upset, who cares about Max he shouldn't be upset because OMG he got Worlds. Never mind that the Olympics was the prize, never mind that if he hadn't been named there he would have got NOTHING that season, never mind that he had to sit at home and watch Abbott WASTE the other spot that could have been his, but of course it will get dragged up forever and ever as some kind of incontrovertible proof that the USFS really loves Max and does him favours all the time. :scowl:

Well I was going to say that (maybe not in your exact words), but since you wrote it already...

Don't get wrong, I'm happy for Jason that he met his objective, but I also understand why there's consternation about it. Jason's last really awesome full-blown performance was in late October and there is a lot of uncertainty about whether he'll get back to that form in eight weeks.

I won't lie, after days of optimism, after that subpar short program, I fell into the idea that he was out of time and that there was NO WAY he was going to make it through that free skate. When he hit his FS, I'm like "YEAH, 4CC!"

Anyway, he proved me wrong -- but that wasn't hard to do. He has eight weeks to prove everyone else wrong.

 

[Tavi...]

:scowl: No, instead Mirai ended up being the only one allowed to be upset about missing the Olympics, no-one else was allowed to be upset, who cares about Max he shouldn't be upset because OMG he got Worlds. Never mind that the Olympics was the prize, never mind that if he hadn't been named there he would have got NOTHING that season, never mind that he had to sit at home and watch Abbott WASTE the other spot that could have been his, but of course it will get dragged up forever and ever as some kind of incontrovertible proof that the USFS really loves Max and does him favours all the time. :scowl:

Karne. I realize you're upset that Max just had a really unfortunate competition, but I made a simple statement, not a value judgement or a criticism. I didn't say Max shouldn't have gone. I was simply responding to Mrs P's statement that in contrast to top finishers in other countries who weren't sent to Worlds, Vincent wasn't age eligible. It is a fact that Jason was age eligible for Worlds in 2014 and wasn't sent. It is a fact that there was no controversy about it - in fact there was none that I recall. I don't recall a single person saying that Max didn't earn the right to go to Worlds in 2014, or that we needed to send Jason because he was our future.

In contrast, there was a ton of negativity when Jason petitioned for a spot on the Worlds Team last season, and it wasn't just here on the forum. Johnny and Tara, Phil Hersh, Christine Brennan, Charlie White - all of them said it would be a crime and a stupidity if Jason were sent instead of Nathan. There isn't nearly the public controversy this year, in part because Jason actually competed at Nats, and in part because Vincent isn't Nathan. But there are still a lot of people who think Vincent should have been sent to Worlds because "he earned it," because he has quads, and because "he's our future." And this despite the fact that Vincent had a spectacularly unspectacular season this year.

IMO:

You're comparing apples and oranges.

The controversy in the case of the ladies was almost entirely over the selection procedure for Sochi. Not for Worlds.

If Mirai (like Jason) had gone to Sochi and Ashley (like Max) had gone to Worlds, I don't think there would have been much "angst" over Ashley going to Worlds instead of Mirai.

That's not really the point, is it? Using the logic employed by people on this forum, in 2014 Jason, like Vincent, and like Nathan last year, "earned" his spot at Worlds and should have been sent. Period. I don't personally care that he wasn't sent. I'm simply pointing out the double standard. As far as I can tell, the main reason there was no controversy about Max being sent to Worlds instead of Jason was because everyone had decided, for reasons best known to themselves, that Jeremy would opt out and Jason would go anyway.

 

[karne]

Karne. I realize you're upset that Max just had a really unfortunate competition, but I made a simple statement, not a value judgement or a criticism. I didn't say Max shouldn't have gone. I was simply responding to Mrs P's statement that in contrast to top finishers in other countries who weren't sent to Worlds, Vincent wasn't age eligible. It is a fact that Jason was age eligible for Worlds in 2014 and wasn't sent. It is a fact that there was no controversy about it - in fact there was none that I recall. I don't recall a single person saying that Max didn't earn the right to go to Worlds in 2014, or that we needed to send Jason because he was our future.

Are you kidding, Tavi? Stacks of people said that. There was plenty of controversy about it. And it is perpetually and forever dragged out to somehow prove that the USFS loves Max and does him favours, as if it was a favour for him to sit at home and watch Abbott waste that Olympic spot!

 

[Meoima]

I'm partial - of course - but I honestly think Jason has a better chance of scoring in the top 10 than Vincent. Right now Vincent is a jumping bean with little or no personality on the ice. His posture is poor and he lacks musicality. BUT - he has the jumps. I think going to Jr. Worlds will give him an extra added year to mature for Seniors next year.
Tavi - you have a Siamese! :luv17: (I have a male Blue Point and a female Lynx Point)

Jason definitely would place higher than Vincent if they both went to WC.

 

[katmari]

The giant bear made another appearance yesterday when Jason brought it (and the other plushies that were donated) to the Ronald McDonald House in Kansas City.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BPohIvDg0ed/?taken-by=jasonbskates

Adorable!

 

[ice coverage]

... That's not really the point, is it? Using the logic employed by people on this forum, in 2014 Jason, like Vincent, and like Nathan last year, "earned" his spot at Worlds and should have been sent. Period. I don't personally care that he wasn't sent. I'm simply pointing out the double standard. As far as I can tell, the main reason there was no controversy about Max being sent to Worlds instead of Jason was because everyone had decided, for reasons best known to themselves, that Jeremy would opt out and Jason would go anyway.

Whatever point you were trying to make by bringing up Mirai/Ashley is lost on me, for the reasons I explained above.

And it is revisionist history to pretend that there was "no" controversy about Max/Jason in 2014.
So there is no double standard when comparing the reaction to Max/Jason re 2014 Worlds vs. the reaction to Jason/Vincent re 2017 Worlds.

Examples of posts from the first hours after the announcement of the 2014 teams:

From Jammers:

Why the heck is Jason Brown not going to Worlds? He just beat Max by over 10 points. Dumb move USFS.

From KwanIsALegend:

... I agree with others who are questioning why the heck Max Aaron is going to worlds and not Jason Brown, so strange.

From wordsworthgirl:

I concur with everyone who's baffled as to why Max Aaron was given Worlds over Jason Brown- this just makes no sense at all to me.

(I myself was happy for Max in 2014, and I am happy for Jason in 2017.)

 

[Tavi...]

Are you kidding, Tavi? Stacks of people said that. There was plenty of controversy about it. And it is perpetually and forever dragged out to somehow prove that the USFS loves Max and does him favours, as if it was a favour for him to sit at home and watch Abbott waste that Olympic spot!

All I will say is that I recall a lot of consternation about not sending Mirai to Sochi; I don't recall any about not sending Jason, but perhaps I'm misremembering, because of the magnitude of the response to Mirai's situation, which extended to the national press.

I can't be responsible for what anyone else posts, but I hope it is clear from what I said here that my intent was not to say that Max didn't deserve the assignment OR that USFS favors him.

 

[ice coverage]

All I will say is that I recall a lot of consternation about not sending Mirai to Sochi; I don't recall any about not sending Jason, but perhaps I'm misremembering, because of the magnitude of the response to Mirai's situation, which extended to the national press.

I can't be responsible for what anyone else posts, but I hope it is clear from what I said here that my intent was not to say that Max didn't deserve the assignment OR that USFS favors him.

Thanks for making my point for me :yes: . (I have added emphasis to your post.)

There was no consternation about not sending Jason to Sochi -- because Jason was sent to Sochi :yay:.

There was consternation about not sending Mirai to Sochi.
And if Jason had not been sent to Sochi, I believe there would have been a lot of consternation over not sending Jason to Sochi.

 

[Yatagarasu]

I still say math is a pretty good indicator of why Jason's going to the Worlds is justified. But as I am biased towards Jason, I'll leave that aside and say that the one thing that bothers me in all this is all the injury talk. I'm sure that if it ends up being a problem, he will let USFS know in time and they can swap. We still don't know how his recovery will proceed and he's already at a pretty good point in it. In case it doesn't end up that way though, I just don't see Jason as a person who'd go so injured to have no chance and thus cause everyone trouble. I am sure USFS will keep an eye too so just wait

 

[Mrs. P]

Well you're asking for a leap of faith based on a 80 percent performance at Nationals with no quads. I consider it amazing that USFS even took it, lol.

As I joked in the other thread, we'll have doubting Thomas for a while...

 

[Yatagarasu]

Yes, I was pleasantly surprised too truth be told. I'm guessing they did it because they can switch at any time, pending it all works out with Vincent of course and on paper, a healthy Jason is still a better bet.

And yes, I'm afraid doubting Thomas will linger for a while. 4CC is going to be interesting!

 

[Mrs. P]

Have any of you read or heard of the book "Mindset?" I haven't officially read the book, but I've read a little bit of the the premise the author's making regarding fixed v. growth mindsets.
https://mindsetonline.com/

Mindset is a simple idea discovered by world-renowned Stanford University psychologist Carol Dweck in decades of research on achievement and success—a simple idea that makes all the difference.

In a fixed mindset, people believe their basic qualities, like their intelligence or talent, are simply fixed traits. They spend their time documenting their intelligence or talent instead of developing them. They also believe that talent alone creates success—without effort. They’re wrong.
In a growth mindset, people believe that their most basic abilities can be developed through dedication and hard work—brains and talent are just the starting point. This view creates a love of learning and a resilience that is essential for great accomplishment. Virtually all great people have had these qualities.
Teaching a growth mindset creates motivation and productivity in the worlds of business, education, and sports. It enhances relationships. When you read Mindset, you’ll see how.

Jason definitely has a growth mindset, which is why I think he's been successful in spite of his jumping challenges. I think about this stuff all the time, so it was really cool to get to see this in play with Jason last week.

 

[Yatagarasu]

^^
Oh that's very interesting! I might look up that book, thank you!
And it makes sense really, I couldn't agree more. It can also be applied to coaching, praise a kid too much for their talent, they begin to rely too much on it, without putting in the work and a fixed mindset develops. It's important how young athletes are guided (or simply parents and their kids in general). It popped into mind because I was thinking how Jason definitely does have an excellent coaching enviorment in terms of psychological preparedness; both how he pushed through his injuries and how he handled this.

 

[Mrs. P]

^^
Oh that's very interesting! I might look up that book, thank you!
And it makes sense really, I couldn't agree more. It can also be applied to coaching, praise a kid too much for their talent, they begin to rely too much on it, without putting in the work and a fixed mindset develops. It's important how young athletes are guided (or simply parents and their kids in general). It popped into mind because I was thinking how Jason definitely does have an excellent coaching enviorment in terms of psychological preparedness; both how he pushed through his injuries and how he handled this.

Funny you should mention this!

http://nymag.com/news/features/27840/

...For a few decades, it’s been noted that a large percentage of all gifted students (those who score in the top 10 percent on aptitude tests) severely underestimate their own abilities. Those afflicted with this lack of perceived competence adopt lower standards for success and expect less of themselves. They underrate the importance of effort, and they overrate how much help they need from a parent.

When parents praise their children’s intelligence, they believe they are providing the solution to this problem. According to a survey conducted by Columbia University, 85 percent of American parents think it’s important to tell their kids that they’re smart. In and around the New York area, according to my own (admittedly nonscientific) poll, the number is more like 100 percent. Everyone does it, habitually. The constant praise is meant to be an angel on the shoulder, ensuring that children do not sell their talents short.

But a growing body of research—and a new study from the trenches of the New York public-school system—strongly suggests it might be the other way around. Giving kids the label of “smart” does not prevent them from underperforming. It might actually be causing it.

Dweck had suspected that praise could backfire, but even she was surprised by the magnitude of the effect. “Emphasizing effort gives a child a variable that they can control,” she explains. “They come to see themselves as in control of their success. Emphasizing natural intelligence takes it out of the child’s control, and it provides no good recipe for responding to a failure.”

I just watch a really cool webinar about how to raise confident kids -- as a mother of an 18-month-old this is very top of mind....and they talked about the same stuff. So I've been really aware of what I tell my daughter. Instead of saying "Great job on stacking the legos!" I've started to say "I see you're stacking the legos into a really cool shape."

So praise isn't bad, but what's important is to praise the effort.

 

[Yatagarasu]

^^
I want to coo at the little one but also wish you a lot of luck at the same time. I am sure it'll turn out the best it can, with you being so thorough and careful because goodness, yes, parenting is hard!
It really does make sense that positive reinforcement of effort ends up with that type of result. I find the notion of it offering some type of control to the child the most interesting to be honest, never thought of it from quite that angle!

And I definitely can see how this can be applied to coaching too, to try and bring it around just a tad especially when it seems the most difficult, post injury or a disappointment.

 

[Mrs. P]

^^
I want to coo at the little one but also wish you a lot of luck at the same time. I am sure it'll turn out the best it can, with you being so thorough and careful because goodness, yes, parenting is hard!
It really does make sense that positive reinforcement of effort ends up with that type of result. I find the notion of it offering some type of control to the child the most interesting to be honest, never thought of it from quite that angle!

And I definitely can see how this can be applied to coaching too, to try and bring it around just a tad especially when it seems the most difficult, post injury or a disappointment.

Yes, definitely a challenge --especially now that she's an active toddler, but it's so cool to see her grow and develop. She's next to me using her fork to eat a banana. She loves using utensils!

But yet to bring it back to the topic of Jason and Kori too, I think Kori too has a growth mindset as well. She's been told by others that she's not cut out to be a top coach because of her relative inexperience and that she was doing Jason a disservice by not handing him over full-time to a "jump technician" or a "big name coach". Heck, just look at the team selection thread -- people are saying that Jason is being held back because of Kori. And the funny thing is, she knows people think this of her.

http://www.manleywoman.com/episode-45-2011-us-nationals/

And several times in my coaching journey with him, judges or officials have said, you know, it’s really in his best interests for you to pass him along to somebody. Because I wasn’t a well-known coach, I was a nobody. And I just am really grateful to the Brown family for trusting in me, and believing in me. My favorite story that I tell other coaches is that I had another skater that started with me when she was a beginner, and when she got to the double axel, her mother — even though she made final rounds at juvenile and was progressing really well — sat me down and said, you know, we think you’re wonderful, but we know you’ve never taught a double axel before, and we don’t want our child to be the guinea pig. And I remember those words so vividly. It was a pivotal moment for me, because it was at that moment that I said, I need to go learn, because I will never have this conversation again. Ever.

And I think that’s what forced me to seek out apprenticeships and to find people that I knew I trusted to guide me. And there have been a lot of people along the way who have said, you can’t do it, or, you don’t know what you’re talking about. And I think as a coach that hasn’t proven themselves, I’ll be up against that for the next ten years, and I’ve been up against it for the last ten years, but if it’s your passion, which it has become for me, you just keep your head up, and you keep showing up every day, and you’re consistent with what you do, and you find people that know a little bit better, and you just learn. And I have to say, I’m probably the biggest nerd there is, because I spent five years at Lake Arrowhead with a video camera and notes, sitting on the side of those elite sessions, watching those elite coaches teaching, and taking notes, and then going with my video camera and filming the tracings on the ice and figuring it out. I’ve probably spent $100,000 figuring out how to be a better coach. To me, that’s my master’s degree, and I think that’s what Jason has done for me, to force me to be the best coach I can be, and I thank him for that.

Growth mindset in action, right there.

 

[TMC]

I'm visiting my parents and just showed Jason's free skate to my mum (who is coming with me to the free skates in Helsinki). Her comments:

- He has a balletic quality that reminds me of Russian skaters.
- He is so joyful, how could you not love him?
- I hope he doesn't change his hairstyle; a crew cut just wouldn't go with this music at all!

 

[katmari]

I'm visiting my parents and just showed Jason's free skate to my mum (who is coming with me to the free skates in Helsinki). Her comments:

- He has a balletic quality that reminds me of Russian skaters.
- He is so joyful, how could you not love him?
- I hope he doesn't change his hairstyle; a crew cut just wouldn't go with this music at all!

Obviously a woman of very good taste! :agree:

I just thought of something ... Mittens were knitted and given out to the skaters at the Finlandia Trophy ... Do you know if something similar is planned for Worlds?