Yuzuru Hanyu: 2016-17 Season

[Meoima]

I don't know, I think nowadays they are about more or less even? I know Pogo, Satoko, Wakaba lipped while Medvedeva, Mao, Osmond, Wagner, flutz. Shoma and Javi flutz while Yuzu and Boyang is probably the one with the tendency to lip. I heard it is easier to correct lip than it is to correct flutz though.

Yuzuru's Flip in these 2 years are fine. It's slight inside edge now.
You can go back to 4CC LP when they slowned down his FLip. It was correct.
He has a scratchy turn counter clockwise trace on the ice.
It's not that easy to correct the Flip as many skaters still Lip. But in Yuzuru's case, I think his entry into the FLip helps a lot. It helps him somewhat maintains the slightest inside edge.
Another reason is that he has a super fast take of in the flip, he has no pre-rotation in both Flip and Lutz. With the Flip, even before the edge has change to switch back, he already leaves the ice. Very efficient way of using the toe pick as well.
Actually I think looking at the gap between both legs when they take off is the easier way to notice Flutz and Lip, not looking at the edge. Flutzer always lean their hip as if they're closing the gap between both of their thighs at the take off Flutz. It's the sigh of thighs closing up as they can't maintain the open gap for the outside edge.
Sorry if it sounds incompressible. English is not my first language. I can't describe it more clearly.

 

[mcq]

Honestly I don't think it is a good idea with replays for jumps and the other elements, cause I feel that skaters who do their elements well would be overly favoured even if they are quite bad at transitions, general skating skills, edge depth and speed. And those who are great at those things, which are also difficult and energy consuming would lose out. I'm pretty sure the scores would, even more than now, overly reflect the execution of elements in favour of the overall skating quality and edge control.

Though I do like the idea from the ita esp guys that the tech panel should be responsible for calling if the steps into the jumps are difficult enough to deserve high GOEs.

I kind of disagree with this though. Thus it would be unfair to those who do their elements well. Like those who takeoff from the correct edge and fully rotate their jumps would be at a disadvantage to those who rotate whatever and takeoff from whatever. Yuzuru worked hard to correct his flip edge because he was punished for it. The same with Satoko with her UR issues. It will be unfair to skaters like them.

The overall skating quality should reflect on PCS, if they think they do all the elements well but the skating quality is bad, then don't give them 9 on SS, TR, PE, IN or CH

 

[mcq]

Yuzuru's Flip in these 2 years are fine. It's slight inside edge now.
You can go back to 4CC LP when they slowned down his FLip. It was correct.
He has a scratchy turn counter clockwise trace on the ice.
It's not that easy to correct the Flip as many skaters still Lip. But in Yuzuru's case, I think his entry into the FLip helps a lot. It helps him somewhat maintains the slightest inside edge.
Another reason is that he has a super fast take of in the flip, he has no pre-rotation in both Flip and Lutz. With the Flip, even before the edge has change to switch back, he already leaves the ice. Very efficient way of using the toe pick as well.

Yeah, he used to have flat edge. I did not notice so much to be honest, because sometimes you can't really tell from the camera angle (I think his team also placed the jumps in a position where it would be hard to see lol), but as long as it is not outside edge I will live with his flip.

 

[NordEsque]

I kind of disagree with this though. Thus it would be unfair to those who do their elements well. Like those who takeoff from the correct edge and fully rotate their jumps would be at a disadvantage to those who rotate whatever and takeoff from whatever. Yuzuru worked hard to correct his flip edge because he was punished for it. The same with Satoko with her UR issues. It will be unfair to skaters like them.

The overall skating quality should reflect on PCS, if they think they do all the elements well but the skating quality is bad, then don't give them 9 on SS, TR, PE, IN or CH

True, my suggestion is basically though to try to get the tech panel to stop the judges from letting the execution of elements overly influence the PCS . I didn't formulate myself well - I do think replays for the tech panel is good and it is already a thing right? I just don't if it should also be something that the judges look at

Edit: Also reading the rules of PCS it is very technical and quite detailed stuff and I think that if those rules are to be justified they should be enforced more rigorously and checked more technically

 

[mcq]

True, my suggestion is basically though to try to get the tech panel to stop the judges from letting the execution of elements overly influence the PCS . I didn't formulate myself well - I do think replays for the tech panel is good and it is already a thing right? I just don't if it should also be something that the judges look at

I understand, but quite the contrary, I doubt the execution of elements really affect the PCS that much. If not, Nathan would not get 88 in 4CC or Patrick won't get over 90 in GPF

 

[NordEsque]

I understand, but quite the contrary, I doubt the execution of elements really affect the PCS that much. If not, Nathan would not get 88 in 4CC or Patrick won't get over 90 in GPF

Fair enough , and also given how Patrick did win certain competitions even when he fell there is a good case to be made that you are right - I just think that it isn't being enforced as much nowadays, but I'm no expert.

And also I would like to involve the tech panel in the judging due to this I just added

Edit: Also reading the rules of PCS it is very technical and quite detailed stuff and I think that if those rules are to be justified they should be enforced more rigorously and checked more technically

 

[Meoima]

Yeah, he used to have flat edge. I did not notice so much to be honest, because sometimes you can't really tell from the camera angle (I think his team also placed the jumps in a position where it would be hard to see lol), but as long as it is not outside edge I will live with his flip.

They have close up of his flip at 4CC: http://i.giphy.com/n7aE6jfdXE8IE.gif
It's just slight inside edge, and he does take off super fast so it doesn't switch to outside edge. Compared to his Flip 4 years ago, this is a good improvement.

 

[mcq]

Fair enough , and also given how Patrick did win certain competitions even when he fell there is a good case to be made that you are right - I just think that it isn't being enforced as much nowadays, but I'm no expert.

And also I would like to involve the tech panel in the judging due to this I just added

Not just Patrick, Yuzuru and Javi too Actually, even since the 6.0 system, many have won their competitions with a fall (I know at least Yagudin did win his world titles with a fall and stepout too). So, whenever someone complained that CoP makes skater with falls/imperfect skates win, I would just roll my eyes until the back of my head

They have close up of his flip at 4CC: http://i.giphy.com/n7aE6jfdXE8IE.gif
It's just slight inside edge, and he does take off super fast so it doesn't switch to outside edge. Compared to his Flip 4 years ago, this is a good improvement.

Lmao it is sliiiiightly indeed! (though maybe some would still argue it is flat-ish.) I think as long as he does not switch to the outside edge, it should be more than enough. Correcting takeoff edge is a tricky thing and as long as he does good enough to avoid edge calls, I don't think it should be a problem

 

[gladiolusc]

Yuzuru's Flip in these 2 years are fine. It's slight inside edge now.
You can go back to 4CC LP when they slowned down his FLip. It was correct.
He has a scratchy turn counter clockwise trace on the ice.
It's not that easy to correct the Flip as many skaters still Lip. But in Yuzuru's case, I think his entry into the FLip helps a lot. It helps him somewhat maintains the slightest inside edge.
Another reason is that he has a super fast take of in the flip, he has no pre-rotation in both Flip and Lutz. With the Flip, even before the edge has change to switch back, he already leaves the ice. Very efficient way of using the toe pick as well.
Actually I think looking at the gap between both legs when they take off is the easier way to notice Flutz and Lip, not looking at the edge. Flutzer always lean their hip as if they're closing the gap between both of their thighs at the take off Flutz. It's the sigh of thighs closing up as they can't maintain the open gap for the outside edge.
Sorry if it sounds incompressible. English is not my first language. I can't describe it more clearly.

http://imgur.com/a/KF0Om
Behold Yuzuru's hilarious way of correcting his edge back in SEIMEI XD The way he uses the toe pick to induce a lean to his right side... lol almost-converse-prerotation? XD

(Is that why his 3F is so blink-and-it's-gone?)

 

[Fayruza]

http://imgur.com/a/KF0Om
Behold Yuzuru's hilarious way of correcting his edge back in SEIMEI XD The way he uses the toe pick to induce a lean to his right side... lol almost-converse-prerotation? XD

(Is that why his 3F is so blink-and-it's-gone?)

counterrotation just before the jump?

 

[NordEsque]

Not just Patrick, Yuzuru and Javi too Actually, even since the 6.0 system, many have won their competitions with a fall (I know at least Yagudin did win his world titles with a fall and stepout too). So, whenever someone complained that CoP makes skater with falls/imperfect skates win, I would just roll my eyes until the back of my head

Haha yes, didn't mean to sound like an uber by just referencing Patrick I'm a fan of his skating and just thought that he's a good example of someone with great PCS-skills since some of his wins are a bit controversial apparently due to him falling. I think falls are okay, I prefer a system that rewards the more accomplished program even with falls. Yes I have noticed some people being very upset over skaters winning anything if they have any kind of fall, being new I didn't know it already happened during 6.0

 

[Meoima]

http://imgur.com/a/KF0Om
Behold Yuzuru's hilarious way of correcting his edge back in SEIMEI XD The way he uses the toe pick to induce a lean to his right side... lol almost-converse-prerotation? XD
(Is that why his 3F is so blink-and-it's-gone?)

This Flip at 4CC is better http://i.giphy.com/n7aE6jfdXE8IE.gif
I have noticed from his practice at Autumn Classical this season that his Flip has improved. Actually it was Won0066 mentioned that. So I came to check the fancam and indeed it was quite a true Flip. But it's a fancam so it's blur.
Then we have HD 4CC close up of his true Flip now.
Congratulation Yuzuru, you have barely graduated Flip institution.

 

[Fayruza]

This Flip at 4CC is better http://i.giphy.com/n7aE6jfdXE8IE.gif
I have noticed from his practice at Autumn Classical this season that his Flip has improved. Actually it was Won0066 mentioned that. So I came to check the fancam and indeed it was quite a true Flip. But it's a fancam so it's blur.
Then we have HD 4CC close up of his true Flip now.
Congratulation Yuzuru, you have barely graduated Flip institution.

The likelihood of him being an A student at this institution is pretty low though...

 

[mcq]

Haha yes, didn't mean to sound like an uber by just referencing Patrick I'm a fan of his skating and just thought that he's a good example of someone with great PCS-skills since some of his wins are a bit controversial apparently due to him falling. I think falls are okay, I prefer a system that rewards the more accomplished program even with falls. Yes I have noticed some people being very upset over skaters winning anything if they have any kind of fall, being new I didn't know it already happened during 6.0

No worries, I know you did not mean that. Also, yes, Yagudin won his 3rd world title with a fall on a 3Lz at the end of his program iirc (doesn't it remind you of someone LOL). Other notable example would be Kristi Yamaguchi who won oly with a fall
So, if someone told you Yuzu (or Patrick or whoever) is not a true champ because he won with a fall, you can shove that to them

 

[mcq]

The likelihood of him being an A student at this institution is pretty low though...

Don't worry, why be an A student at flip institution when he is the valedictorian of the axel institute

 

[Meoima]

The likelihood of him being an A student at this institution is pretty low though...

Well in East Asia we use the 100 scale for grading. I would give him 65 for his current Flip. So he passes it. In 2010-2011 his Flip was like 40. I am quite strict with the edge call. Even 2 years ago I still just grade his Flip as 50. Now I am glad he has forced me to give him better score.

I am so glad Yuzuru has super outside edge so he isn't scruntinized by me when it comes to his Lutz. He has such beautiful outside edge.

Anyway, I haven't seen any skater who flutz to have the correct Luzt after all those years. They only don't get called. It doesn't mean their technique has improved. They're just better at hiding their flutz.

The thing is, even when these flutzers have become better at hiding their wrong edge, they can not hide the way their thighs lean inward so it's easy to tell they're still not having a correct edge. Obvious case: let's compare Liza's thighs position to Osmond's thighs position when they take off the Lutz. Yes Osmond jumps clockwise so it's harder to see her edge but she can not make her thighs gap to look like Liza.

Technical specialists certainly know about that. That's why I don't get why there are so many lenient calls to some certain skaters.

 

[Fayruza]

Well in East Asia we use the 100 scale for grading. I would give him 65 for his current Flip. So he passes it. In 2010-2011 his Flip was like 40. I am quite strict with the edge call. Even 2 years ago I still just grade his Flip as 50. Now I am glad he has forced me to give him better score.

I am so glad Yuzuru has super outside edge so he isn't scruntinized by me when it comes to his Lutz. He has such beautiful outside edge.

Anyway, I haven't seen any skater who flutz to have the correct Luzt after all those years. They only don't get called. It doesn't mean their technique has improved. They're just better at hiding their flutz.

The thing is, even when these flutzers have become better at hiding their wrong edge, they can not hide the way their thighs lean inward so it's easy to tell they're still not having a correct edge. Obvious case: let's compare Liza's thighs position to Osmond's thighs position when they take off the Lutz. Yes Osmond jumps clockwise so it's harder to see her edge but she can not make her thighs gap to look like Liza.

Technical specialists certainly know about that. That's why I don't get why there are so many lenient calls to some certain skaters.

What's the minimum a student has scrape in order to get a pass, sorry?

 

[Meoima]

What's the minimum a student has scrape in order to get a pass, sorry?

50/ 100. Or it was how I passed many of my exams in college. what a shame of me...

 

[Fayruza]

50/ 100. Or it was how I passed many of my exams in college. what a shame of me...

Oh, we all did that - it was impossible to do equally well in everything.
Right. At least he passed - and he's probably going to work on it, unless he ditches the jump altogether.

 

[gladiolusc]

Oh, we all did that - it was impossible to do equally well in everything.
Right. At least he passed - and he's probably going to work on it, unless he ditches the jump altogether.

Nooooooooooooooo. (it's so pretty, choreography-wise?)
Go take the lutz!




yes yes I know flip is his worst, lutz is not bad. I know.