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- Jan 17, 2014
That's why I strongly object the limit of three athletes per country. No matter how many those extraordinary skaters they produce, they still have go through this bottleneck, through this jam, of this senseless limitation.
2016-17 State of Russian Ladies skating
- Thread starter moriel
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That's why I strongly object the limit of three athletes per country. No matter how many those extraordinary skaters they produce, they still have go through this bottleneck, through this jam, of this senseless limitation.
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- Mar 23, 2014
Thank you for sharing! This is very cool. But, again, I'm not sure what these performers have in common with any of the choreography/movements of the Russian ladies - I was kinda hoping for examples that highlighted how the Russian ladies are "balletic" in the Russian sense of it. I am in total agreement that there is a uniquely Russian tradition of ballet and theatre...but how is it expressed in Russian ladies' skating?
Can totally agree that it is fascinating to see what different national federations stress....and I'd agree what they think is important may often reflect some national cultural context or ideas about what makes great skating. For example, skating skills and technical mastery have been viewed a foundation for artistic expression in Canadian skating since at least the time of Toller Cranston.
I can even agree with you on the 'attention to detail' could be better among the Russian ladies, especially the Eteri skaters. There is a lot of strategy and tactics in maximizing scores under the IJS, but the precision and quality of the elements can suffer. I give Zhenia's spins as an example [which she acknowledges need improvement].
Just don't accept 'precision / attention to detail' equals ballet. Yup, Russian ballet training gets to that, but it's not what defines it. Which is why it seems such a non sequitur to many of us.
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- Sep 8, 2016
I have many good things to say about the young Russian ladies skaters: amazing consistency, ability to jump for days, flexibility, etc.
But.....why why why are they not taught good posture, stretch, long lines, held extended spirals, etc?!?!????!
TSL was right when they said those things about Alina zagitova. Now, Alina is an awesome athlete, I'm in awe of her consistency, her lutz-loop (wow!!!). But all that backloading does nothing but show her lack in artistry. She's doing nothing but footwork and choreography and a spin for the first half of her program which is fine. But that first half we need to be seeing smooth skating long lines and more ..... and we don't. It's just choppy sloppy and labored. I wouldn't mind the backloading do much if she was interesting and artistic in the first half.
I'm predicting a big next season for her . She's very pretty, and her technical content is untouchable. But I'm disappointed with the refusal of her team to make her look like an actual ballerina, not someone in a tutu slouching and flailing and rushing rushing rushing
But.....why why why are they not taught good posture, stretch, long lines, held extended spirals, etc?!?!????!
TSL was right when they said those things about Alina zagitova. Now, Alina is an awesome athlete, I'm in awe of her consistency, her lutz-loop (wow!!!). But all that backloading does nothing but show her lack in artistry. She's doing nothing but footwork and choreography and a spin for the first half of her program which is fine. But that first half we need to be seeing smooth skating long lines and more ..... and we don't. It's just choppy sloppy and labored. I wouldn't mind the backloading do much if she was interesting and artistic in the first half.
I'm predicting a big next season for her . She's very pretty, and her technical content is untouchable. But I'm disappointed with the refusal of her team to make her look like an actual ballerina, not someone in a tutu slouching and flailing and rushing rushing rushing
No, it's not so much 'precision/attention to detail', as it is about form, poise, extension, etc. If you look at ballerinas, they have a certain way of holding arm and legs extensions, a smoothness of movement, and an awareness of how the body moves. It's why ballet fundamentals serve as foundation of so many forms of dance. I don't see these basics being very strong in many of the top Russian skaters, which puzzles me since I would assume they would incorporate ballet into their training from the very beginning.
I don't considered Rika/Kanako/Mai to be "top" of the Japanese pack. When I think of top Japanese ladies, I think of Asada, Miyahara, Honda, Higuchi, versus "top" Russians - Sotnikova, Lipniskaia, Tukt, Med, Pogo, and Radianova. Sotk and to some extent Med are okay, but Lip/Tukt/Pogo/Radionova are visibly...behind.
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- Mar 26, 2014
The form is not the key thing. The impression is. I enjoy Marin and Nastya Gubanova. They are both terrific skaters. But I rewatched Zagitova's FS about 50 times already and still want more. I rewatched Gubanova's RJ about 10 times and have no desire to do it again. I could barely go through Marin's RJ the third time - it's generic and boring for me. And she is the best of the Japanese youngsters. Of course, it is just my perception. It has nothing to do with patriotism - I just like Alina's DQ. No patrotism will make me watch the stuff I don't like Russian skaters included. And I am fine with her balletic interpretation.
One more thing about her. I watched live ISU youtube stream. And I was dissatisfied with Zagitova because she missed the notes a bit. I just watched Marin and she was OK. Only when Alina started her interview did I realize that the sound was about 0.5 sec out of sync with the picture. Her program is extremely demanding to the exact timing of movements much more than others' (Marin is just an example - I was not uneasy about not skating to the music with anyone before Zagitova).
After that I just don't buy that she is lacking musicality and interpretation. And her positions are quite balletic.
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Tg9z4bh1-Fo/hqdefault.jpg
https://lentachel.ru/netcat_files/multifile/2592/Alina_8.jpg
Yes, her arabesque is not as perfect as this one
http://www.balletschool.perm.ru/_res/graduates/259pic.jpg
But she is on ice and she is not a top level balerina.
She rushes in the junior programs as she is short on time. She can do longer spirals - she did it at senior competitions. The only thing which I found weak is her Ina Bauer.
And what about this one? Isn't it balletic?
https://pp.userapi.com/c837427/v837427327/31707/CZ22h4lCM6w.jpg
Compare it with say Marin's who can barely do 120 degrees. No, I do not agree with non-balletic argument.
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- Nov 22, 2015
Yes. I adore Alina's split. SO IMPRESSIVE! all of her transitions difficult and interesting... but this split is one of my favorites.
btw.. We all remember Polina's skating in the last season... And look how improved her SS in this season?
Her SP is my FAVORITE even consider all seniors and juniors ladies short programs.
So I think it's highly possible that Alina's skating will much improve up to next season.
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Maybe not 50, but 15 for sure - it's one of the most "rewatchable" skates I've seen ever.I also watched Alina FS 50 times
I think it's mix of big, active (clapping) audience, perfect jumps execution, hitting musical accents, pretty girl, skating last and closing magnificent ladies competition (maybe best in history). It all created magical performance from Alina.
I personally prefer ESPN commentary, because TAT's commentary was a bit distracting this time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJe-DCSqxDk
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2015
20 times for me)))Maybe not 50, but 15 for sure - it's one of the most "rewatchable" skates I've seen ever.
I think it's mix of big, active (clapping) audience, perfect jumps execution, hitting musical accents, pretty girl, skating last and closing magnificent ladies competition (maybe best in history). It all created magical performance from Alina.
I personally prefer ESPN commentary, because TAT's commentary was a bit distracting this time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJe-DCSqxDk
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- Joined
- Feb 19, 2015
Im in the prcess of watching JW these days & I can admit it was an enjoyable skate but this rushing thing just puts me in this uneasy mood & I cant enjoy her skating one bit even tho in my head I undersatnd she has lovely qualities but her skating is sooooo juniourish. She really reminds me of a baby deer all the time (no offence to her obv)
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2014
We will see how it will stand after FS, but after SP I am glad the Russian girls are challenged by the Canadians. Figure skating needs it.
At the same time I must admit that historically Canadians are not known for having a strong mental composure in FS...
At the same time I must admit that historically Canadians are not known for having a strong mental composure in FS...
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- Joined
- Mar 26, 2014
Three Russian girls in the last group of the worlds championship. This tells everything about the state of Russian ladies skating.
Best wishes! Hope all of them will medal.
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- Oct 30, 2012
I agree with you analysis. Zagitova incorporated as many ballet movements/postures as much as she can, maybe a little less than the Sasha P.
Marin is very pleasant to watch, but her R&J is very generic, and is much less demanding in timing and transition. Marin also kept the same face throughout her LP.
Marin is very pleasant to watch, but her R&J is very generic, and is much less demanding in timing and transition. Marin also kept the same face throughout her LP.
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- Jan 17, 2014
So again, again and again: the limitation of three skaters per country is wrong, wrong and wrong. Why do we watch all those skaters who can barely make 50 points or less in SP, while we could watch Radionova, Tuktamysheva, Leonova, etc?
54 points is a qualifying limit for this Worlds FS. That's like 16th in the Russian Nationals! Ridiculous! I prefer to watch top 16 Russians that all those Norwegians, Lithuanians and Brazilians, who can barely skate at all!
54 points is a qualifying limit for this Worlds FS. That's like 16th in the Russian Nationals! Ridiculous! I prefer to watch top 16 Russians that all those Norwegians, Lithuanians and Brazilians, who can barely skate at all!
That's why I propose to create National Figure Skating League. For example: National Hockey League. Most talented hockey players are from Canada/USA. And every hockey player in the world wants to get to this league. That's why we see there so many talented Swedish, Russian and Finnish players. And NHL much interesting than World Championships or etc. I'd prefer to watch Blackhawks vs. Pens, than something like Russia vs. Denmark. Also it's a big business and advertising contracts. People are enjoying hockey and organizators have a big money. All in a prize. In Russia I see so many fans of figure skating, so many people at Plushy's or Yagudin's show. But just imagine - best junior and senior ladies skaters in the world, with gala, with special cup to the winner. That would be sensational!
But as I said before: no hopes here.
Are you complaning about only three skaters per country? What about Rhythmic Gymnastic? Where only TWO girls per country can participate at Olympic Games. That's why Sasha Soldatova didn't participate in Rio, but her result much better than results of girls from other countries. She could have silver or bronze Olympic medal. But she could not participate. That's it. Rhythmic Gymnastic, where Russia absolutely dominates, you even didn't try to create something better than what you have now. The same Grand Prix stage in Moscow, but with bad quality broadcasting, with bad logistic and 1/3 filled stadium.
Russia has so many talented people, but nobody can organize opportunity to realize all these talents. That's a big problem. All what I see: "We don't want to create or invent something different, we have to integrate, just tell us what to do, and we'll do".
With this flow I have no comments... :disapp:
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