Yuzuru Hanyu: 2016-17 Season

[Floria]

I love you! AndI love the white pants!!!

I never missed them really, but I have nostalgic feeling about them now, it was the beginning of a season that has ended so well. I remember putting my alarm clock at 3 am just not to miss their first appearance at AC.

You mean sitting with Javi at K&C at other competition is it :shocked:?

It explains quite a lot...but is it allowed for a judge to be in someone's team?

 

[Marin]

I never missed them really, but I have nostalgic feeling about them now, it was the beginning of a season that has ended so well. I remember putting my alarm clock at 3 am just not to miss their first appearance at AC.

It explains quite a lot...but is it allowed for a judge to be in someone's team?

You can coach and judge, you can be in tech panel and train skaters, this is flawed system and it should be changed asap, for example Yulia Sebastyan Ivett 's coach, she was in tech panel at GPF... I don't think it should be allowed.

 

[mcq]

I never missed them really, but I have nostalgic feeling about them now, it was the beginning of a season that has ended so well. I remember putting my alarm clock at 3 am just not to miss their first appearance at AC.

It explains quite a lot...but is it allowed for a judge to be in someone's team?

The infamous Shin Amano is working on TCC and also coaches. Many time president of federation judges too. It is just how it is.

 

[Camillo]

But well, national bias is something that has been around for decades so... I meant if JPN judge was on the list he would hold down others scores and push Yuzu and Shoma too. It is just bad luck that the judges' draw was not in his favor. but look at the bright side, even with politics not in his side, he still win with THAT kind of skate.

Actually, what matters is the scale of holding down/pushing up and final gap the judge creates between their skater and his rivals.

I've saw quite a lot of tables with judges score (by countries). Surprisingly enough, Japanese judges are very modest, very reluctantly get out of the average corridor for Yuzu, no comparison with Spanish, Canadian or American judges.

Take 4CC SP.
Japanese judge Ms. Masako Kubota gave Yuzu 4th lowest score for SP and 4th highest score for Nathan.
Difference between Yuzu-Nathan's score: 7.35.
Actually only infamous Sasha Martinez and TPE judge gave bigger gap, others (even USA and CAN) thought Yuzu and Nathan should not be so far apart.
Gap in protocols was 6.08, that means ms. Kubota wanted Yuzu even lower in ranks after SP.
Shoma was supported more fervently - gap Shoma-Nathan 0.75 (gap in protocol was 2.84)

At FS Japanese judge supported Yuzu better but it was too late.

 

[alia jackson]

Yuzuru aside, sometimes I wonder how many really really like this sport with the politic, judging etc :think:. I was just a casual olympic season fan before and never knew these until I followed Yuzu.


The lady who sat beside me in Helsinki flew in from Toronto just for Yuzu, she said she is a Yuzu fan but not a fs fan. She even went to SC and showed me the videos of Yuzu in white pants that she's captured .

 

[Fayruza]

Yuzuru aside, sometimes I wonder how many really really like this sport with the politic, judging etc :think:. I was just a casual olympic season fan before and never knew these until I followed Yuzu.

Many are put off the sport just because of politicking. But it has always been there...

 

[mcq]

Yuzuru aside, sometimes I wonder how many really really like this sport with the politic, judging etc :think:. I was just a casual olympic season fan before and never knew these until I followed Yuzu.


The lady who sat beside me in Helsinki flew in from Toronto just for Yuzu, she said she is a Yuzu fan but not a fs fan. She even went to SC and showed me the videos of Yuzu in white pants that she's captured .

I would argue it is a bit better nowadays. It was worse when compulsory figure (oh the horror) was still around and in the newer 6.0 system; because you can't even argue about why A should be above B because of how abstract the scoring is. At least right now due to better scoring system, fans can point out if something "deviates" from the rules.

I was a fan for 15 years (a really casual one though) and I treat it like watching dancing with the stars before, honestly.; like FS is not a serious sport. It is actually more clear-cut now, I would say. I kind of experience the shift from 6.0 to IJS and it was really "huh??" at first

 

[Floria]

Many are put off the sport just because of politicking. But it has always been there...

My parents followed FS when I was a kid. They used to have the same conversations about judging and politics in this sport we are having now. Nothing changes...

 

[Fayruza]

I would argue it is a bit better nowadays. It was worse when compulsory figure (oh the horror) was still around and in the newer 6.0 system; because you can't even argue about why A should be above B because of how abstract the scoring is. At least right now due to better scoring system, fans can point out if something "deviates" from the rules.

I was a fan for 15 years (a really casual one though) and I treat it like watching dancing with the stars before, honestly.; like FS is not a serious sport. It is actually more clear-cut now, I would say. I kind of experience the shift from 6.0 to IJS and it was really "huh??" at first

That's a moment I missed, unfortunately - due to personal reasons. Only to think it happened when I was in Moscow already - and to me moving to Moscow seems a recent event. (er... 17 years ago now).

 

[Plumededragon]

I wonder if we'll have news from Yuzu soon, as Mao has just retired, they'll probably want his feelings on this (since they asked him when she decided to return after 2014-2015 season).

 

[mcq]

That's a moment I missed, unfortunately - due to personal reasons. Only to think it happened when I was in Moscow already - and to me moving to Moscow seems a recent event. (er... 17 years ago now).

Right, wasn't the first time they applied IJS for WC was when the championship was held in Moscow? They almost had an all Russian podium had Plushenko not withdrew, I think.

You meant you missed compulsory? When I first started watching it was already not around and looking at how they used to do it (and how many skaters with blah free skate won over those with great ones because of CF) I am glad I became a fan after they were gone.

 

[Neenah16]

I would argue it is a bit better nowadays. It was worse when compulsory figure (oh the horror) was still around and in the newer 6.0 system; because you can't even argue about why A should be above B because of how abstract the scoring is. At least right now due to better scoring system, fans can point out if something "deviates" from the rules.

I was a fan for 15 years (a really casual one though) and I treat it like watching dancing with the stars before, honestly.; like FS is not a serious sport. It is actually more clear-cut now, I would say. I kind of experience the shift from 6.0 to IJS and it was really "huh??" at first

If only it was that simple .. I have been trying unsuccessfully to get a serious conversation about GOE but no one seems to want that. everyone is more interested in attacking other posters rather than discussing the topic :gaah:.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

I would argue it is a bit better nowadays. It was worse when compulsory figure (oh the horror) was still around and in the newer 6.0 system; because you can't even argue about why A should be above B because of how abstract the scoring is. At least right now due to better scoring system, fans can point out if something "deviates" from the rules.

I was a fan for 15 years (a really casual one though) and I treat it like watching dancing with the stars before, honestly.; like FS is not a serious sport. It is actually more clear-cut now, I would say. I kind of experience the shift from 6.0 to IJS and it was really "huh??" at first

I never watched FS under the old system, and from everything that I saw, I wouldn't have started too given the Eurovision Song Contest level of credibility. And sometimes, even now, I wonder why I'm watching this at all.

During the ladies event at Helsinki, there were two older people sitting behind me talking English to each other. After Wakabas SP score came up (that I'm still completely gutted for), the guy turned to the lady and said something like "See, this is the absolute beauty only this sport can give you, and right on it's tail the politics that are trying to destroy it". I don't think there is anything else I can say that would fit better I really have so much respect for skaters who continue to do what they love and fight through all of the potential scoring nonsense... so I guess going to all the competitions possible and screaming my lunges out is my only possibility (and once I have more money, buying 10000000 gifts too!

 

[mcq]

If only it was that simple .. I have been trying unsuccessfully to get a serious conversation about GOE but no one seems to want that. everyone is more interested in attacking other posters rather than discussing the topic :gaah:.

Hahah, like I said, GOE is a bit subjective and there is no definite right or wrong. For example, judge A might think Yuzuru's 3turn-mohawk entry into his 4S is not difficult or creative, while judge B think it is. Or judge A think a spread eagle exit is not creative/difficult, while judge B thinks it is. Unless you discuss it with the judges themselves, at best what we can do is guess on why they think it is not sufficient enough to get high GOE. Some might be really strict and having really high standard, while others might be more lenient; as long as they are consistent, it should not be a problem, in my opinion.

It is the same with PCS. Some judges prefer speed for high SS mark, others prefer to see more deep edges, the other like to see gliding and flow, others want to see more multidirectional skating and difficult turns etc etc. So GOE and PCS will always be something subjective, imo.

I never watched FS under the old system, and from everything that I saw, I wouldn't have started too given the Eurovision Song Contest level of credibility. And sometimes, even now, I wonder why I'm watching this at all.

During the ladies event at Helsinki, there were two older people sitting behind me talking English to each other. After Wakabas SP score came up (that I'm still completely gutted for), the guy turned to the lady and said something like "See, this is the absolute beauty only this sport can give you, and right on it's tail the politics that are trying to destroy it". I don't think there is anything else I can say that would fit better I really have so much respect for skaters who continue to do what they love and fight through all of the potential scoring nonsense... so I guess going to all the competitions possible and screaming my lunges out is my only possibility (and once I have more money, buying 10000000 gifts too!

LMAO at the bolded part. If it is nothing but the truth. Because in 6.0 there is a thing called block judging and it is pretty much like Eurovision
But well, the sport is pretty, for me. I would continue watching it with or without Yuzu I think. I would maybe just not care about the placement and be less engaged And I will tell and share to the newer fans about the greatness and majesty that is Yuzuru Hanyu

 

[gladiolusc]

If only it was that simple .. I have been trying unsuccessfully to get a serious conversation about GOE but no one seems to want that. everyone is more interested in attacking other posters rather than discussing the topic :gaah:.

... um. I tried >"<

 

[YuzusHydroblade]

I never watched FS under the old system, and from everything that I saw, I wouldn't have started too given the Eurovision Song Contest level of credibility. And sometimes, even now, I wonder why I'm watching this at all.

I don';t have anything to add to this is just that this made me laugh really hard (I wish we could have one EX with Eurovision staging quality )

 

[raebia]

I would argue it is a bit better nowadays. It was worse when compulsory figure (oh the horror) was still around and in the newer 6.0 system; because you can't even argue about why A should be above B because of how abstract the scoring is. At least right now due to better scoring system, fans can point out if something "deviates" from the rules.

I was a fan for 15 years (a really casual one though) and I treat it like watching dancing with the stars before, honestly.; like FS is not a serious sport. It is actually more clear-cut now, I would say. I kind of experience the shift from 6.0 to IJS and it was really "huh??" at first

So well, I just got flooded by memories...:

I confess, I am 54 years old, and grew up watching fs with my mother in the 1970´s. In german, compulsory figures were called "duty", and the free programme was called "free". Ok.

So I watched it all on german television, even the "duty", which I found mostly boring, but sometimes fascinating. It was understood, then, in Germany, that whoever was not able to perform the correct "duty" was not a good figure skater.
Some skaters, pairs, etc, were able to infuse some artistry even into "duty", wow. It was, sometimes, strangely fascinating.

Later, I watched only sporadically, you know, live happend: work, relationships, death of familiy, less tv - time in Germany for fs..but sometimes I watched.

And then, by chance, I watched Yuzuru Hanyu Worlds 2012. I was: "What is this?" "Who is this?" "Intense!", "the best!". "What is going on in figure skating???" " I need to follow this skater".

So since then, I tried to understand there is no more "duty", but a short programme, which is everything as taxing and remanding as the free, and try to grasp goe, etc...And I went to Helsinki - because I had to see him once in my lifetime life, and am planning to go to Milan. Yes.

I remember the words of B. Orser, that his "pupils" have to learn the basics. And I think "duty" has not vanished, the skaters all have to know their basics, but we, the spectators are not forced any more to watch it on tv....thank God.

I love watching Yuzu stroking for example - but as a "must"? I fear, in former days, the "duty" killed much creative spirit.

Good, that times have changed...

Greetings and thanks to all ,


raebia

 

[alia jackson]

^^^ hugs everyone

 

[Fayruza]

Right, wasn't the first time they applied IJS for WC was when the championship was held in Moscow? They almost had an all Russian podium had Plushenko not withdrew, I think.

You meant you missed compulsory? When I first started watching it was already not around and looking at how they used to do it (and how many skaters with blah free skate won over those with great ones because of CF) I am glad I became a fan after they were gone.

Oh, I was a kid when compulsories were still on - but I watched the sport ever since I was a toddler, my mum loved it and she loved Rodnina/Zaitsev. By the 1980s I was old enough to understand what was going on - only just. Ah, sweet memories...
And I had an opportunity to go to the Worlds in Moscow twice now - but both times I was sadly out of funds. I'd have seen Lambiel and Patrick win.
No, I mean I missed that shift from 6.0 to COP... though I could have followed the sport then.

 

[Hanmgse]

So well, I just got flooded by memories...:

I confess, I am 54 years old, and grew up watching fs with my mother in the 1970´s. In german, compulsory figures were called "duty", and the free programme was called "free". Ok.

So I watched it all on german television, even the "duty", which I found mostly boring, but sometimes fascinating. It was understood, then, in Germany, that whoever was not able to perform the correct "duty" was not a good figure skater.
Some skaters, pairs, etc, were able to infuse some artistry even into "duty", wow. It was, sometimes, strangely fascinating.

Later, I watched only sporadically, you know, live happend: work, relationships, death of familiy, less tv - time in Germany for fs..but sometimes I watched.

And then, by chance, I watched Yuzuru Hanyu Worlds 2012. I was: "What is this?" "Who is this?" "Intense!", "the best!". "What is going on in figure skating???" " I need to follow this skater".

So since then, I tried to understand there is no more "duty", but a short programme, which is everything as taxing and remanding as the free, and try to grasp goe, etc...And I went to Helsinki - because I had to see him once in my lifetime life, and am planning to go to Milan. Yes.

I remember the words of B. Orser, that his "pupils" have to learn the basics. And I think "duty" has not vanished, the skaters all have to know their basics, but we, the spectators are not forced any more to watch it on tv....thank God.

I love watching Yuzu stroking for example - but as a "must"? I fear, in former days, the "duty" killed much creative spirit.

Good, that times have changed...

Greetings and thanks to all ,


raebia

thanks for your post. I'm always fascinated when I see fans that've known about the sport for years. It's very interesting to read how the sport changes and has better things but also lacking stuff.

Off topic but reading about Mao's retirement, who I love too, just makes me think how I'll feel when Yuzuru retires. I can't imagine the feelings that one must go through when the reason you became a fan of the sport retires. I don't think the level of investment is the same after that, fortunately many people find a new skater to love and follow but I can't imagine myself getting so invested in another skater or in general in another athlete like this :sad21:. Things like this remind me that we have to enjoy every second we can watch our favorite skater