- Joined
- May 17, 2017
I think it means we should have more advanced medical system to detect the severity of concussions for quicker and more effective treatment.
Concussions in Figure Skating
- Thread starter bevybean
- Start date
He also could have just had the flu or something. Since they didn't say, we don't really know.
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2014
This is true. Now that concussions are being linked to suicides, I think it is more important than ever to do as much research into head injuries as possible. Here's another article about a football star who committed suicide. http://www.npr.org/2015/12/22/46065...make-concussions-in-football-a-national-issue
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
I think we should get rid of moves that require high speeds to pull off. Go slow. Caroline Zhang can give us tips
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2014
I'm more worried about death spirals, side by side spins, and throw quad twists. When it comes to speed, I think a lack of speed can be detrimental to rotating jumps. A fully rotated jumps is much easier to land.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
I was thinking more along the lines of, no more triples, just doubles.... Maybe triples are allowed for the men, but ladies can peak with the doubles.
Personally I never liked pairs skating, seems awfully dangerous. It's the X games of figure skating. The world championship level people are watchable, but it's awful watching the lower levels. I feel bad for the girls getting thrown around.
The death spiral is another one that's safer a little faster - as the girl, if you get dropped with proper tension and centrifugal force, you slide out rather than fall right on your head. You're right about pairs skating in general though, it's very dangerous.
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2014
It all has to do with momentum. A very fast death spiral will create "Lateral" momentum. So the skater will have a short fall to the ice however, they will carry lateral momentum into the boards. That's what happened in my case, it was not the ice that gave me my concussion, it was the wall/boards. I hope that made sense.
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- Jan 23, 2009
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- May 20, 2015
TED-Ed put out a video today about concussions - it's causes, what happens in the brain when it's concussed, and the possible long term effects if not treated carefully. Well worth watching and it's a short enough (6:15) video.
- Joined
- May 17, 2017
Most moves in skating require high speed.
A related story from the world of football: http://www.espn.com.au/nfl/story/_/...fensive-lineman-john-urschel-retires-abruptly
His mathematical ability was impaired by his concussion, which is also what happened to Ashley Wagner.
His mathematical ability was impaired by his concussion, which is also what happened to Ashley Wagner.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
Exactly, which is why concussions are such a problem.
That's why figure skating, as a sport, has to fundamentally change. Get rid of those high speed moves and replace them with slow speed moves.
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2017
Might as well cancel figure skating as it is and move back to just Figures competitions.
I don't know enough about the incidence of concussions in skating in terms of who gets them most often and how/why. To find good solutions can be found, we have to understand the problem.
How common are concussions in figure skating compared to other sports and compared to other skating injuries?
Find a way to keep track by encouraging skaters/parents to report injuries to their clubs and/or to a central group.
How many are due to falls with direct head impact, and how many are due to whiplash or to spinning forces? (In the latter case, it may not be possible to pinpoint what moves actually caused the concussion, but a good guess is better than no information at all.)
In the former case: What part of the head was impacted?
What was the skater doing when the injury occurred?
Did they fall on a difficult risky move they were first learning, or that they had already mastered but always had the potential to go wrong?
How would solutions differ if, for example, the more numerous or more severe concussions were sustained from falls on high-speed triple axels vs. on triple axels approached too slowly to ensure completion by skaters first learning the jump?
What if the incidence of concussions sustained by skaters learning double axels is far higher than on triple axels even prorated for the total number of skaters working on each?
Or did they fall on a routine move where they just lost concentration for a moment or hit a bad piece of ice?
How fast was the skater moving when the injury occurred?
Were other skaters directly involved in the accident? (Was the skater working on a pair or dance or synchro move at the time? Was there a collision with another unrelated skater on the ice at the same time, or did swerving to avoid another skater result in a fall that might not have occurred without that distraction?)
Was there any impact with the boards? (If this is a common cause of injury in figure skating, then padding might be an appropriate response. Is it also common in hockey, worth adjusting rink design to help both communities? But if mrrice's experience was a fluke, would a solution that reduces time and ice space available for practice on a daily basis the appropriate response?)
Was the skater being directly supervised by a coach at the time, or practicing on their own?
Are concussions more common among already-elite skaters or among serious lower level skaters attempting to reach the elite ranks or among skaters of all skill levels and training intensities?
What is the range of severity in these injuries and what factors are involved in the most severe?
Do skaters tend to return to training too soon after suffering a concussion?
Prioritize addressing the most common causes and those with most severe consequences.
Adopt protective measures that reduce injury occurrence or severity without changing rules or techniques first before reconfiguring the whole sport.
One thing that seems to be increasingly recognized by the medical community is that a second or subsequent concussion often has significantly more severe consequences than a first one. So spread that knowledge to coaches and skaters/parents and make it part of the culture for skaters to seek medical attention after any head impact and not to return to the ice until their doctor tells them it's safe, and to wear head protection and limit the riskiness of moves being practiced when they do first return.
Determine what kind of design would provide protection against the most common figure skating head impacts, and what would interfere least with the execution of figure skating moves and awareness of surrounding skating traffic.
Depending on the kinds of moves involved in the most numerous or most severe injuries, does it make sense to ban or devalue those moves? Maybe ban pair skating entirely?
Any rule changes to that affect elite-level program content would have to be done at an international level.
Should similar measures be taken to address other kinds of head injuries or orthopedic injuries, etc.?
E.g., if stepping on the ice without remembering to remove plastic guards from the blades causes a higher percentage of falls with injury (because the skater goes down very fast and unexpectedly even though they weren't gliding fast a second earlier) than any individual skating moves, should plastic guards be banned?
How common are concussions in figure skating compared to other sports and compared to other skating injuries?
Find a way to keep track by encouraging skaters/parents to report injuries to their clubs and/or to a central group.
How many are due to falls with direct head impact, and how many are due to whiplash or to spinning forces? (In the latter case, it may not be possible to pinpoint what moves actually caused the concussion, but a good guess is better than no information at all.)
In the former case: What part of the head was impacted?
What was the skater doing when the injury occurred?
Did they fall on a difficult risky move they were first learning, or that they had already mastered but always had the potential to go wrong?
How would solutions differ if, for example, the more numerous or more severe concussions were sustained from falls on high-speed triple axels vs. on triple axels approached too slowly to ensure completion by skaters first learning the jump?
What if the incidence of concussions sustained by skaters learning double axels is far higher than on triple axels even prorated for the total number of skaters working on each?
Or did they fall on a routine move where they just lost concentration for a moment or hit a bad piece of ice?
How fast was the skater moving when the injury occurred?
Were other skaters directly involved in the accident? (Was the skater working on a pair or dance or synchro move at the time? Was there a collision with another unrelated skater on the ice at the same time, or did swerving to avoid another skater result in a fall that might not have occurred without that distraction?)
Was there any impact with the boards? (If this is a common cause of injury in figure skating, then padding might be an appropriate response. Is it also common in hockey, worth adjusting rink design to help both communities? But if mrrice's experience was a fluke, would a solution that reduces time and ice space available for practice on a daily basis the appropriate response?)
Was the skater being directly supervised by a coach at the time, or practicing on their own?
Are concussions more common among already-elite skaters or among serious lower level skaters attempting to reach the elite ranks or among skaters of all skill levels and training intensities?
What is the range of severity in these injuries and what factors are involved in the most severe?
Do skaters tend to return to training too soon after suffering a concussion?
Prioritize addressing the most common causes and those with most severe consequences.
Adopt protective measures that reduce injury occurrence or severity without changing rules or techniques first before reconfiguring the whole sport.
One thing that seems to be increasingly recognized by the medical community is that a second or subsequent concussion often has significantly more severe consequences than a first one. So spread that knowledge to coaches and skaters/parents and make it part of the culture for skaters to seek medical attention after any head impact and not to return to the ice until their doctor tells them it's safe, and to wear head protection and limit the riskiness of moves being practiced when they do first return.
Determine what kind of design would provide protection against the most common figure skating head impacts, and what would interfere least with the execution of figure skating moves and awareness of surrounding skating traffic.
Depending on the kinds of moves involved in the most numerous or most severe injuries, does it make sense to ban or devalue those moves? Maybe ban pair skating entirely?
Any rule changes to that affect elite-level program content would have to be done at an international level.
Should similar measures be taken to address other kinds of head injuries or orthopedic injuries, etc.?
E.g., if stepping on the ice without remembering to remove plastic guards from the blades causes a higher percentage of falls with injury (because the skater goes down very fast and unexpectedly even though they weren't gliding fast a second earlier) than any individual skating moves, should plastic guards be banned?
I don't think the high speed has as much to do with concussions as you think. Honestly, I've seen people go down in curling and hit their heads hard enough for them to black out. They weren't moving all that fast. In fact, possibly slower than the speed you would need to complete the figures that used to be the basis of the sport.
I think gkelly's post has it right.
Man, I remember that Russian pair at Skate America a decade or so ago where the man tripped during a lift and the girl landed on her head...still winced a bit typing this out...
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
What does it matter what the real reasons are?
1. There USFSA won't ever investigate or research the real causes of concussions. Gkelly's entire wall of text is moot.
Besides, I don't know why you're acting like going slower will absolutely not affect concussion rates at all. If you read interviews, lots of skaters talk about whiplash, which is going from high speed to 0 quickly, and their heads are thrown back/forward. You still have banana peel concussions, but at least you won't have whiplash concussions. Isn't less conclusions better?
2. If changes aren't made, then parents are going to vote with not signing up their kids for skating and the sport dies with that. Our top American lady skater lost the ability to do math and our last men's Olympic winner has boxer-tier level concussions. That's pretty damning evidence.
1. There USFSA won't ever investigate or research the real causes of concussions. Gkelly's entire wall of text is moot.
Besides, I don't know why you're acting like going slower will absolutely not affect concussion rates at all. If you read interviews, lots of skaters talk about whiplash, which is going from high speed to 0 quickly, and their heads are thrown back/forward. You still have banana peel concussions, but at least you won't have whiplash concussions. Isn't less conclusions better?
2. If changes aren't made, then parents are going to vote with not signing up their kids for skating and the sport dies with that. Our top American lady skater lost the ability to do math and our last men's Olympic winner has boxer-tier level concussions. That's pretty damning evidence.
1. Okay but the whiplash concussions are for spins not jumps from what I understand. So, your suggestion of getting rid of quads and limiting ladies to double, doesn't address that. Also, You seem to want USFSA do something about the issue, but anytime someone suggests that further research be done to determine the exact cause of concussions, you shoot it down saying they will never do anything. Are you suggesting that changes be made without doing research? That would be totally irresponsible as they could make changes and not have any idea if the rates of concussions is going down or not. Or if the changes may make the situation worse. There no research, therefore you have no idea if reducing speed will lead to less concussions or not. So, what exactly are you looking for someone to say here?
2. And if they make the suggestions you have put forth, watch the kids not want to be signed up because it isn't fun anymore. And watch the fans quit watching because every program is so slow it becomes boring. Then the sport dies for sure. Everyone is agreeing that the evidence is damning and the issue needs to be addressed. Stop acting like no one cares but you just because we disagree with your proposed solution.
