2017-2018 State of Russian Ice Dance | Page 22 | Golden Skate

2017-2018 State of Russian Ice Dance

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So now that we've all collectively got certain things off our chests, what's going on with the Juniors? What are the prospects for L/D this season etc. Everybody's so quiet.
 
chapis said:
Twizzles are an element of the programs, imagine seeing a team constantly messing up their step sequences, their lifts or their spins.
When Maia and Alex aborted their twizzles in the 2012 World Cup they lost all points of the element, the same for Zach this year, and Evan B. lost a bunch of points as well. When Kaitlin H. fell on their lift in Finlandia they lost all the points, when Lorraine Macnamara ruined her step seq (jr. worlds 2017) they were severely penalized. No team aspiring to medals can afford to ruin their elements at every competition. Plus S/K are not so extraordinary in the other areas, their lifts have severe problems, they got level 1 and 2 in their step seq in European 2017, artistically they are nothing special and their programs are always forgettable and now they are back in Russia from where we have not seen very memorable programs lately, especially from Zhulin teams. If at least they could correct their twizzles, they could disguise the rest of their deficiencies, whatever they do on the ice, a judge may try to convince us that they can achieve a step seq level 4, but how could they try to convince us that they are doing good twizzles, there is nothing to disguise, errors are too obvious in that element .
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This is what I am saying so I agree

bramweld said:
So now that we've all collectively got certain things off our chests, what's going on with the Juniors? What are the prospects for L/D this season etc. Everybody's so quiet.
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It's so unfortunate they aren't doing anything differently than any other Russian junior to senior real. There wasn't even discussion of moving to north America and training with dubreil.
 
gmyers said:
This is what I am saying so I agree



It's so unfortunate they aren't doing anything differently than any other Russian junior to senior real. There wasn't even discussion of moving to north America and training with dubreil.
Click to expand...

Oh wow. I hope he doesn't continue to drag her across the ice for the entire season. I wonder if these people see how slickly Igor has packaged Car/Pon. Why is so hard to put together a team taking advantage of the skills that BOTH do well? Maybe Sp/Sm have something nice for us. There FD is to Love Story which is reminscent of their Umbrellas program of a couple seasons ago which was light years better than the Italian folk dance they did last season. But I don't understand why S/A are doing a tango, but hey we'll see. Is it normal that we never see their programs till they hit the JGP circuit?
 
bramweld said:
Oh wow. I hope he doesn't continue to drag her across the ice for the entire season. I wonder if these people see how slickly Igor has packaged Car/Pon. Why is so hard to put together a team taking advantage of the skills that BOTH do well? Maybe Sp/Sm have something nice for us. There FD is to Love Story which is reminscent of their Umbrellas program of a couple seasons ago which was light years better than the Italian folk dance they did last season. But I don't understand why S/A are doing a tango, but hey we'll see. Is it normal that we never see their programs till they hit the JGP circuit?
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Because you know Russian ice dance is about one good skater and their partner most of the time. That's why they are no longer working out in seniors.
 
bramweld said:
But I don't understand why S/A are doing a tango, but hey we'll see.
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She has those long ice dancer legs. A tango would be good for them to work on using that line. Their blues is the best thing I've seen them do. Tango could work for them. It will be a challenge.

I agree about Shpilevaya & Smirnov. Love Story is not my thing, but I think it will be theirs.
 
chapis said:
Twizzles are an element of the programs, imagine seeing a team constantly messing up their step sequences, their lifts or their spins.
When Maia and Alex aborted their twizzles in the 2012 World Cup they lost all points of the element, the same for Zach this year, and Evan B. lost a bunch of points as well. When Kaitlin H. fell on their lift in Finlandia they lost all the points, when Lorraine Macnamara ruined her step seq (jr. worlds 2017) they were severely penalized. No team aspiring to medals can afford to ruin their elements at every competition. Plus S/K are not so extraordinary in the other areas, their lifts have severe problems, they got level 1 and 2 in their step seq in European 2017, artistically they are nothing special and their programs are always forgettable and now they are back in Russia from where we have not seen very memorable programs lately, especially from Zhulin teams. If at least they could correct their twizzles, they could disguise the rest of their deficiencies, whatever they do on the ice, a judge may try to convince us that they can achieve a step seq level 4, but how could they try to convince us that they are doing good twizzles, there is nothing to disguise, errors are too obvious in that element .
Click to expand...

Exactly my point. Twizzles is not the only element of ID. People who think that 'ID coaches' should be renamed 'Twizzles Coaches' should think next time they post such nonsence.
 
Snow63 said:
Exactly my point. Twizzles is not the only element of ID. People who think that 'ID coaches' should be renamed 'Twizzles Coaches' should think next time they post such nonsence.
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But if you do have good twizzles the likelihood of a team having good clean turns also increases right? Not to mention edge control and both these features help to make level 4 step sequences which are the money makers in ice dance. But considering how P/C really worked on theirs they can be improved with lots and lots of work. Who is the technical specialist in Zhulin's group, Durnev?
 
bramweld said:
But if you do have good twizzles the likelihood of a team having good clean turns also increases right?
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That's not true. I have always had decent turns, but twizzles are completely different technique and I used to struggle with one side.
 
It does help to have good twizzles in the footwork sequences, though, because there are mandatory sets of double twizzles in the footwork now & if you don't execute them completely, you lose a level on the footwork.
 
Ice Dance said:
It does help to have good twizzles in the footwork sequences, though, because there are mandatory sets of double twizzles in the footwork now & if you don't execute them completely, you lose a level on the footwork.
Click to expand...

Wow, this is new for the 2017/18 season?
 
bramweld said:
Wow, this is new for the 2017/18 season?
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Didn't PapCiz get level 2 on one of their stsqs last season because of this? I think it was GPF when Guillaume had a minor stumble on his double twizzle during their FD stsq and commentator (Ben?) explained how that was a costly mistake. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)
 
nimi said:
Didn't PapCiz get level 2 on one of their stsqs last season because of this? I think it was GPF when Guillaume had a minor stumble on his double twizzle during their FD stsq and commentator (Ben?) explained how that was a costly mistake. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)
Click to expand...

Did not it was Gabriella in the European 2017?
 
Ice Dance said:
She has those long ice dancer legs. A tango would be good for them to work on using that line. Their blues is the best thing I've seen them do. Tango could work for them. It will be a challenge.

I agree about Shpilevaya & Smirnov. Love Story is not my thing, but I think it will be theirs.
Click to expand...

who is S/A?
 
bramweld said:
Wow, this is new for the 2017/18 season?
Click to expand...

As people have explained already, it cost Papadakis & Cizeron last season. (I remember thinking the same rule was going to cost Chock & Bates at WTT during the free there, but I haven't rewatched the program. They did get a level 3 with -1s on one step sequence & lose their lead there). But looking at the printed rules, I may have misunderstood because I'm not finding clarity in the rules about whether you have to include the double twizzle; only that if you use it for a turn, you must fully execute it in order to receive the level for the turn. (See the Note under 4.6.2)

http://static.isu.org/media/505764/2086-id-requirements-for-technical-rules-2017_18.pdf

In any case, it seemed like everyone at the top had at least double twizzles in the footwork last season; and from what I've seen this year (which is only Lake Placid), the trend seems to be that teams are including two sets within the footwork now. Maybe the commentators will clarify.
 
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