Repeating Programs - Pros and Cons

[Spinning]

I wished Daisuke kept his Cyber Swan or brought it back during his later years.

I think it is a different kind of challenges to bring back the old programme and keep the audience satisfied.

 

[mrrice]

Is Adam getting all new programs? Since he wasn't able to perform them at Nationals, do you think he will keep his programs from last year?

 

[AidenAiena]

Is Adam getting all new programs? Since he wasn't able to perform them at Nationals, do you think he will keep his programs from last year?

SP Music: "Diamonds" from Rihanna performed by Adam Rippon
FS Music: "Arrival of the Birds" by The Cinematic Orchestra and "O" by Coldplay

So keeping FS and a new SP. Conflicting info on whether "performed by" means he is singing it or if it's the cover version he performed at shows but the consensus seems to be it's Adam singing :shocked:

 

[silverfoxes]

Sometimes circumstances are such that it makes sense for a skater to keep a program for a second season. It happens. But when certain top skaters have a habit of recycling and it's not just a one-off situation, it starts to become annoying. I don't mean the ones who simply don't have the time or financial resources for new choreo but skaters who have medaled at Worlds, Olys, etc. It certainly lessens the impact for me to see the same thing done over and over again (like Groundhog's Day), and when more & more skaters make it a trend, it really dampens the excitement I would normally have for the new season. Thankfully, most of my favorite skaters are not stuck in this rut (so far...knock on wood), and I look forward to see them try something new.

 

[asiacheetah]

It depends. If a skater has positive results from a past program and think they can skate to their best abilities, I think that's fine to repeat programs.

Most non avid fans only tune in during the Olympics anyway (at least I was that way for certain events). They wouldn't know what's recycled or have it memorized in their head.

As someone who follows Yuzuru now, I wouldn't lie and say I wasn't a tiny bit disappointed when I heard Chopin SP was being repeated, but I understood because he had such a mental block going with Let's Go Crazy. I'm thrilled to be able to see Semi again.

Now what I can't stand is the massive amount of war horse music being used every Olympic season. Some of those music is so used and abused I just want to hit the mute button when I hear it. So if it's a repeated program to a war horse music... Get that thing away from me!

 

[Barb]

Now what I can't stand is the massive amount of war horse music being used every Olympic season. Some of those music is so used and abused I just want to hit the mute button when I hear it. So if it's a repeated program to a war horse music... Get that thing away from me!

Surely you would think different if it were Yuzuru who was using warhorse music :sarcasm:. I remind you that he used POTO and R & J twice

 

[andromache]

Most non avid fans only tune in during the Olympics anyway (at least I was that way for certain events). They wouldn't know what's recycled or have it memorized in their head.

Now what I can't stand is the massive amount of war horse music being used every Olympic season. Some of those music is so used and abused I just want to hit the mute button when I hear it. So if it's a repeated program to a war horse music... Get that thing away from me!

By your own logic, if non-skating fans are hearing these warhorse music choices once (or a little more than once) every four years, then they don't really know how much it might annoy avid skating fans, and appreciate it.

I love most warhorse music (aside from POTO - I hate POTO). It's dramatic but has subtle moments, has emotional highs and lows, slow parts and fast parts, and it's simply beautiful to listen to. As someone who has no knowledge of music outside of figure skating, warhorse music makes me feel something when I listen to it, and I love hearing something familiar as a skater begins to skate.

I think the problem with warhorse music is that it is so iconic and so sweeping and magnificent that the vast majority of skaters, aside from the top 10-20 in the world, can't live up to the music. It overwhelms them. Non-warhorse music might be more bland, or less memorable, but could be far more fitting for skaters who still have a lot of developing to do in terms of their skating and presentation.

Karen Chen and Gabby Daleman are both doing Carmen this year, and as Karen has already showed us (and I am sure Gabby will as well), she is capable of skating up to the music. Her speed and power (and Gabby's) are perfect for a warhorse like Carmen. Music less powerful or with less drama than a warhorse might fade into the background instead of being part of the performance*.

*Of course, there are music choices out there that can be powerful and dramatic and NOT warhorses, but those are harder to find, and might be less accessible to general audiences.

 

[mrrice]

Speaking of "Warhorses" I think the reason that coaches and choreographers go with them during Olympic seasons is that the panel of judges tends to be older veteran judges. I think the older panels might not appreciate music that contains lyrics. With Karen and Gabby, it will be another Battle Of The Carmen's......There's a very good chance that they will both be in the final flight and could skate back to back....

 

[treeloving]

It is extremely hilarious to see some people melt down because other do not react "properly" to their fav's decision. For real, people have been complain endlessly about many reuse and war horse program in this thread , no need to act like Yuzuru has been specifically victimized and call out other poster just because their disagree with his decision.

Anyway as an "armchair critic", I think Yuzuru's talent is limitless and he has far more artistic potential to have two repeated programs. By skating two repeated program, an opportunity to produce potential master pieces is lost. I truely hope he will be able to explore his artistical capability to the fullest before he retire though.

 

[Ender]

It is extremely hilarious to see some people melt down because other do not react "properly" to their fav's decision. For real, people have been complain endlessly about many reuse and war horse program in this thread , no need to act like Yuzuru has been specifically victimized and call out other poster just because their disagree with his decision.

Anyway as an "armchair critic", I think Yuzuru's talent is limitless and he has far more artistic potential to have two repeated programs. By skating two repeated program, an opportunity to produce potential master pieces is lost. I truely hope he will be able to explore his artistical capability to the fullest before he retire though.

Talk that to the classical musicians who only perform one or two composers in their entire lives who are still hailed as legendary.

 

[Ender]

Elina Garanca has been singing the same repertoire for 2-3 years and she is still the top mezzo in the A list of current opera singers. Apparently the Western fine arts have been made of repeating and refining details for thousands of years. I don't see the problem. We need someone who break through now and then, but there will always exist a same base where everyone refines the same material and reach a higher level.

 

[shmay]

3 seasons is too long for any program in figure skating.

Hanyu is now in the company of Surya Bonaly in that regard. That's almost always cause for concern.

 

[kiches]

But when you are creating a program and you think it's so amazing, why not save it for the Olympic season? Let's be honest, the only reason because Yuzuru is reusing programs is because he wants to focus 100% on the jumps. Suppose the only reason to repeat it is that they really think the program is so incredible that it should be shown in the Olympics. So, he believes himself unable to achieve something equal or better than Semei? And Chopin is sooo good that it was not enough 2 but 3 seasons?

I personally wouldn't make the assumption that he's doing Seimei again ENTIRELY to focus on the jumps. I'm sure it offers a level of comfort for him that will help with the technical content, but above that this program has always clearly been his baby. The amount of effort, research, and passion he spent on it was evident and he clearly has strong feelings about it. I was expecting him to bring it back for the Olympics either way as I don't think his final performance of it in Boston was the way he wanted to say goodbye to it.

If anything Chopin is the clear practical choice that had to be made rather than Seimei. That's the program he probably felt he had to repeat in order to consistently land the jumps.

Also, does anyone know if judges actually watch performances from competitions they aren't judging themselves? I doubt they remember everything they've seen and that each judge in the ISU remembers every program - heck, even the commentators can barely remember correct skating history judging by the number of incorrect statements they tend to make, and they probably watch more skating than the judges do.

Repeating a program without changing anything -> absolutely against with for two reasons:

1) we're going to see another year with the same program, as a judge why giving you better PCS if you are performing the same program? It should be a rule: if you are going to skate the exact same program for more than one year, don't expect new PBs in the components.
.

I think by that same argument you can also argue that you shouldn't expect to receive less PCS points than what you've received before (if the program is exactly the same).

 

[bevybean]

Talk that to the classical musicians who only perform one or two composers in their entire lives who are still hailed as legendary.

BUT, some classical composers when extremely prolific and encompassed a wide variety of styles in their music. One or two composers could contain a lot of artistic potential for the musician.

 

[Neenah16]

It is extremely hilarious to see some people melt down because other do not react "properly" to their fav's decision. For real, people have been complain endlessly about many reuse and war horse program in this thread , no need to act like Yuzuru has been specifically victimized and call out other poster just because their disagree with his decision.

Anyway as an "armchair critic", I think Yuzuru's talent is limitless and he has far more artistic potential to have two repeated programs. By skating two repeated program, an opportunity to produce potential master pieces is lost. I truely hope he will be able to explore his artistical capability to the fullest before he retire though.

It is not that he is being criticised (many of his fans did that), it is the manner in which the criticism happen that rubs people the wrong way. I don't see why some are acting as if he somehow wronged them personally by choosing to repeat his programs.

And he can explore his artistic ability in exhibitions and ice shows where he does not need to worry about scores or medals.

 

[Ender]

BUT, some classical composers when extremely prolific and encompassed a wide variety of styles in their music. One or two composers could contain a lot of artistic potential for the musician.

Tell Vivaldi to not write a concerto 600 times over and over again. Or Bach should not copy and paste his cantatas from time to time.

 

[Ender]

It is not that he is being criticised (many of his fans did that), it is the manner in which the criticism happen that rubs people the wrong way. I don't see why some are acting as if he somehow wronged them personally by choosing to repeat his programs.

And he can explore his artistic ability in exhibitions and ice shows where he does not need to worry about scores or medals.

I don't mind when I see Ms Elena Garanca for the 3 times in 2 years and she performed the same performance. Of course I might not pay for the concert and call it a day. But in no way she owes me anything. And I have no rights to complain that, as an A list mezzo opera singer, she should venture to a bigger repertoire to be considered (by me) as an artist. Isn't that ridiculous? She does her job and it's her way.

 

[Ice Dance]

And he can explore his artistic ability in exhibitions and ice shows where he does not need to worry about scores or medals.

An interesting perspective for fans who have been trying to convince everyone he is unbeatable based on the second mark.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

3 seasons is too long for any program in figure skating.

Hanyu is now in the company of Surya Bonaly in that regard. That's almost always cause for concern.

Well, it also puts him in the company of Chan, so maybe not so much cause for concern. (Also, Surya rocks. )

Yeah... I didn't realize that Hanyu was repeating BOTH an SP and an LP -- replicating both programs from his already successful 2015/2016 season at that. Chopin and Seimei were pretty much maxed out for me, with multiple clean performances -- so we got to see those programs done to their potential, and they were absolute masterpieces.

I'll try to hold my reservations about it until I actually see both programs though... hopefully it will be a revamped versions of each program, like Chan's Four Seasons was a significant re-vamp in terms of choreo, difficulty, and interpretation. But I'm a bit disappointed that he would repeat TWO past programs that have already been done perfectly... Chopin and Seimei were the ideal balance of technical and artistry, but I would rather see him try to better it with something new, instead of revisit something that's already been skated to perfection. I get if a skater is absolutely struggling in an Olympic season and needs to re-visit something familiar/comfortable, or if they felt they had yet to skate a program to its potential, but this dual decision seems oddly contrary to his own standard of pushing himself and trying new things. And with the additional quad difficulty, the programs might not be as choreographically as good as they've been in the past. I'm sure he knows it's an unpopular choice, repeating two programs, but of course, an OGM is at stake... he's clearly being smart about it, having successful programs he's confident with, so he can focus on the elements.

And, on the flip side.... while I'm kinda meh about Chopin (I much prefer PW or LGC), I'm super excited to see Seimei again, since that is my favourite program of his (and one of my fave LPs of any discipline ever)... and it'll likely have different cuts and music to accommodate the difficulty, so perhaps I should think more optimistically about it being a different program.

 

[andromache]

Elina Garanca has been singing the same repertoire for 2-3 years and she is still the top mezzo in the A list of current opera singers. Apparently the Western fine arts have been made of repeating and refining details for thousands of years. I don't see the problem. We need someone who break through now and then, but there will always exist a same base where everyone refines the same material and reach a higher level.

Competitive figure skating is not a fine art.