- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
Are you saying that not only he repeats programs but he repeats outfits ?
I can only hope his Seimei costume is modified - the embroidery was nice but it looked rather clunky/boxy... the Chopin costume was lovely though.
Are you saying that not only he repeats programs but he repeats outfits ?
:agree: Yuzuru stated all of this beautifully. .... It's important also to remember that not every skater will feel that way, .... It's individual; and that's perfectly fine. It makes the field richer to have a variety of skating philosophies and desires represented.
..... I think we're lucky.
Maybe we should revive the compulsory dance but put it into single skating. Everyone skates the same program to the same music with the same steps and same jumps, so the focus can be on who masters the tech and interprets the music the best.
(Gracie, for example, said once that repeating her SP from the Sochi year, even though she'd only done it for half that season, made her feel that she'd already done that, and wasn't going forward).
I'm bummed if Ashley really does use Moulin Rouge for a third time. (I loved her first two times, but when she repeated it the first time, I really did believe there was more to mine artistically out of the program. I don't feel that way now.)
anyone else feel like the reason Ashley is re using both of those programs is because she is trying to re-crete her worlds 2016 moment at the Olympics? eh im probably wrong anyways I love both the programs and I think she'll find a way to make them different than in 2016. best of luck to her!
I think she said, specifically, that she had already reached the pinnacle that she could with that program...
.which, tbf, was also the impression I got from Grieg, because it was so magical at Nationals and then the Olympics, and then it never reached that level again. Understandably, because what could be more magical than skating it clean at Nationals and breaking a record on your way to your first title and Olympic team, and then skating it clean(ish) at the Olympics? It's funny because I ended up subconsciously associating that red dress with the magic of Grieg and the navy one as the phone-in version, although that season was a bit of a phone-in season for Gracie in general.
anyone else feel like the reason Ashley is re using both of those programs is because she is trying to re-crete her worlds 2016 moment at the Olympics? eh im probably wrong anyways I love both the programs and I think she'll find a way to make them different than in 2016. best of luck to her!
anyone else feel like the reason Ashley is re using both of those programs is because she is trying to re-crete her worlds 2016 moment at the Olympics?
Yes.
Omg OS don't tell me you don't like the Let's go crazy program :eeking: Out of all his programs, this is my favorite program of Hanyu! I didn't get it and disliked it at the beginning, but at GPF I was totally smitten! The footwork sequence at full speed, the mimics and expressionsNoooo way .... thank goodness he didn't. Otherwise than I'd have to deduct PCS 3 points just for that lavender pants costume.
(Someone better stop me now. Can't take another 10 pages explanation on why Yuzu shouldn't receive deduction for that pastel native american psychedelic dressup for that funk n' roll program. Superb 3A moment though.)
I see the problem with ISU databanks. If that's the case, then it could be based on skaters giving the information themselves. If they are going to repeat a program, they must notify the referee on site or ISU beforehand. If they repeat a program and didn't notify anyone beforehand, it's a light form of deception and there could be some kind of penalty - like a drop in world rankings or just a mandatory deduction at the next competition. It doesn't have to be some super severe punishment, as I assume that no skater wants to get the spotlight for trying to decept ISU. Also, I assume this system will work pretty effectively, as they are pretty sure going to be found out one way or the other. We're talking about top 5/ top ten finishers here.So the referee could look up what they listed last year and this year and see whether they're the same, apply a deduction before the skater ever takes the ice if they are.
However, sometimes the information submitted to the ISU website is incorrect. The skater might have updated it later. That might mean that this year's music is listed as last year's on the website even though the skater has changed music since they last updated the site. Or it's listed as something new when in fact the skater changed their mind since submitting to the site and went back to an old program.
Also sometimes the short and long programs are listed in the wrong spots.
And sometimes the skater might list partial information about the music one year and then add more/better information about the same music the next year.
Or list the same source of the music for both years, but in fact they're using completely different songs from the same musical or movie soundtrack etc. this year than they used last year.
If the music isn't familiar or if the way it's listed on the ISU website is different from the title by which this judge recognizes that music, they still may not be sure.
The skater may list a movie soundtrack when they're using a specific song or other piece of music that existed under its own name long before the movie was made. Or list the title of an aria when the judge only knows the name of the opera it comes from, or vice versa. Etc.
And remember, not all skaters speak English at all. Not all judges who do recognize a piece of music know it by the same title as the skater does.
So just relying on what's listed online will often be inaccurate. And unless last year's program was especially memorable or familiar, we can't count on the referee (or whoever) to hear this year's music once the skater actually performs it and realize "Hey, that's not what was listed on the website!"
You're right on that. Judges should definitely not have access to the Internet when they're judging and definitely shouldn't be looking up rankings or past scores at that moment!When? They don't hear what the skater is skating to this year until the program starts. They put their component scores into the computer immediately after the program ends while the tech panel is reviewing elements, or some judges might even put them in while the program is still in progress. Within minutes, the scores are finalized.
And we certainly don't want the judges to have access to the Internet on the judges' stand while they're judging. That would open up so many cans of worms unrelated to music repeats.
See above, as this wouldn't be necessary if skaters have to notify them themselves.Should judges each attend the practices where the skaters' music is played (regardless of whether the skater actually performs the program at the time) and make mental notes about what the music is this year, and then go back to the hotel and look up last year's programs?
They're not allowed to bring written notes about the skaters to the judges' stand. So they would have to rely on memory.
I do agree that penalizing choosing a different music to the same choreography is very difficult to realize and a solution is harder. It feels wrong and unfair though and I think it's not impossible to find a solution to this.Some skaters have signature elements that fans expect to see from them, with variations if possible, in every program. Especially casual fans who only watch once a year or once every 4 years and remember specific skaters as "the guy with the [insert move here]"
"Variety" is one of the criteria for the Transitions component. So if a skater keeps using the same transitional move many times in the same program at the expense of not using other kinds of moves, they'll suffer for the overuse there, and possibly under Composition as well. (Or be rewarded under Composition if repeating different variations on spirals or spread eagles or split jumps throughout the program helps tie it together thematically.)
Similarly, if the moves enhance the music and the choreography they can be rewarded under Composition, under Interpretation, under element GOEs. If the moves have nothing to do with the music, they won't get those rewards and might suffer in the CO and IN scores accordingly.
There's certainly no way for judges to keep track whether any of the highlight moves the skater performs tonight is an exact repeat from last night's SP or last year's program unless it was especially memorable (for good or for bad reasons), and the judge actually watched the previous performance(s).
Omg OS don't tell me you don't like the Let's go crazy program :eeking: Out of all his programs, this is my favorite program of Hanyu! I didn't get it and disliked it at the beginning, but at GPF I was totally smitten! The footwork sequence at full speed, the mimics and expressions
link to GPF especially for you to change your opinion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08m9CebBBF4
xeyra, that's a commendable effort :thumbsup: I was too lazy to put out to argue against the obviously exaggerated claim of judges having seen some programs dozens of times, unless, of course, if a judge is an avid fan who watches a performance repeatedly online.
However, I do have a couple of questions re the data. 1) Since the judges were anonymous before the last season, how did you decide which judges had indeed judged the same program more than once? 2) As you can see, I asked about judges who had judged the repeat programs, not about them having seen the programs, live, of course. It is highly likely that someone who judges one of the two programs at a competition will see both the SP and LP performances, plus possibly the official practices. In fact, most judges, from all disciplines, will likely want to watch the top skaters perform at the event they are judging.
Nonetheless, form your research, I can see indeed only a few judges, up to about 10%, have judged some of these repeat programs multiple times. And it's possible some of them will judge a program the 4th time, 4-peat judging of a 4-peat performance. No telling how many times they may have seen the program performed though.
judges are volunteers ?, right?, I guess they are fans of the sport, I do not think they only watch the programs occasionally, especially the top skaters.
Uh, judges are definitely paid. They start out as volunteers for testing and low level competitions and it's quite an arduous process to become one, at least in Canada. Judges won't get paid necessarily a ton but they will (eventually) get things like travel expenses covered.
My coach doesn't watch many programs of the top skaters until I ask her about their transitions. So yeah... many don't watch.judges are volunteers ?, right?, I guess they are fans of the sport, I do not think they only watch the programs occasionally, especially the top skaters.
My coach doesn't watch many programs of the top skaters until I ask her about their transitions. So yeah... many don't watch.