- Joined
- May 17, 2017
Me getting old waiting for the day Ribbon’s 4lz will be called clean and beautiful in competition.
2017-18 State of U.S. Men's Figure Skating
- Thread starter Mrs. P
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2014
Does Adam have a quad flip or toe? A Lutz is much harder and if he's yet to land his Luzt after years of trying, you'd think he would have made a change by now.
Per media reports, Adam is working on the 4Z rather than the 4T because of his injury recovery. Apparently the 4Z is less hard on his injury area than the 4T.
Adam landed a clean 4T at Trophee Eric Bompard last season. He's tried the 4Z they have been < or <<.
Adam landed a clean 4T at Trophee Eric Bompard last season. He's tried the 4Z they have been < or <<.
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2014
Adam skated very well in Finland and is in contention for a medal. He's in third place behind Mikhail and Jin Boyang. In a strange turn of events, the fire alarm went off but, the skaters are back on the ice....
He did it......Adam took the Bronze in Finland finishing just behind a solid Vincent, and Jin. Congratulations for getting on an international podium so soon after your comeback.
He did it......Adam took the Bronze in Finland finishing just behind a solid Vincent, and Jin. Congratulations for getting on an international podium so soon after your comeback.
They did it! Vincent got 2nd and Adam got third.great job!
I really think Vincent is the most under valued skater of the top US men.
And Adam - What can I say but he has been my fav for years. I'm so happy to see that he can bad from his injury stronger than ever. And to top it off, he is a super nice guy as well.
I really think Vincent is the most under valued skater of the top US men.
And Adam - What can I say but he has been my fav for years. I'm so happy to see that he can bad from his injury stronger than ever. And to top it off, he is a super nice guy as well.
Not sure how Vincent is under valued since this is his first year as a Senior.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2014
Good news first: Congratulations to Vincent and Adam for their silver and bronze medals at Finlandia. And to Ross, for a great skate!
Adam is a poet on ice, and his skating, spins, everything contributed to the beauty. But the most wonderful part is how he used all the elements to create something beautiful and relatable, something audiences in the building and everywhere could enjoy and feel some emotions ... in this case, an inspiring mood and the feeling of flight. His attention to detail is just
Ross's program was simply a joy. I love a man who's not afraid to be unabashadly romantic! Seeing him happy with his skating and having such fun was wonderful. It's a great program for him. I love so many of the elements of his skating, his spread eagle, his attention to the music, which he lives out on the ice.
What impressed me about Vincent is how he persevered after the SP, and even though he was making some mistakes, he never let go of the program for the FS. The jumps and other technique, yes. But he also kept his expression of the music throughout, he stayed connected to the mood and emotions he portrayed.
And the bad news. Someone on the comp thread said, "it doesn't exactly bode well for a great Men's FS at the Olympics." And that's just what I was thinking. It's so jarring to see someone fall more than once, pop jumps and still win the gold medal. Nothing against Boyang, I find him charming with awesome technique, but having that result just left me with a let-down feeling after the competition. Thank goodness for videos; I could get over that feeling by watching some of the inspiring ones. Of course, ending with Kolyada's melt-down also gave a deflating effect to the event. Oh well. What redeems it for me are the gorgeous skates.
Adam is a poet on ice, and his skating, spins, everything contributed to the beauty. But the most wonderful part is how he used all the elements to create something beautiful and relatable, something audiences in the building and everywhere could enjoy and feel some emotions ... in this case, an inspiring mood and the feeling of flight. His attention to detail is just
Ross's program was simply a joy. I love a man who's not afraid to be unabashadly romantic! Seeing him happy with his skating and having such fun was wonderful. It's a great program for him. I love so many of the elements of his skating, his spread eagle, his attention to the music, which he lives out on the ice.
What impressed me about Vincent is how he persevered after the SP, and even though he was making some mistakes, he never let go of the program for the FS. The jumps and other technique, yes. But he also kept his expression of the music throughout, he stayed connected to the mood and emotions he portrayed.
And the bad news. Someone on the comp thread said, "it doesn't exactly bode well for a great Men's FS at the Olympics." And that's just what I was thinking. It's so jarring to see someone fall more than once, pop jumps and still win the gold medal. Nothing against Boyang, I find him charming with awesome technique, but having that result just left me with a let-down feeling after the competition. Thank goodness for videos; I could get over that feeling by watching some of the inspiring ones. Of course, ending with Kolyada's melt-down also gave a deflating effect to the event. Oh well. What redeems it for me are the gorgeous skates.
So we have one JGP left then it's GP time, so a good time to check in on the numbers and stats and all that.
Our Challenger Series medalists so far:
Nathan Chen (U.S. Classic, 1st)
Max Aaron (U.S. Classic, 2nd)
Jason Brown (Lombardia, 2nd)
Vincent Zhou (Finlandia 2nd)
Alexander Johnson (Nebelhorn, 2nd)
Adam Rippon (Finlandia 3nd)
Challenge Series events left:
Warsaw Cup, Nov. 16-19
Tallinn Trophy Nov. 21-26
Golden Spin Dec. 6-9
GP Series:
Rostelecom Cup (Oct. 20-22): Nathan Chen, Grant Hochstein
Skate Canada (Oct. 27-29): Jason Brown
Cup of China (Nov. 3-5): Max Aaron, Grant Hochstein, Vincent Zhou
NHK Trophy (Nov. 10-12): Jason Brown, Adam Rippon
Internationaux de France (Nov. 17-19): Max Aaron, Vincent Zhou
Skate America (Nov. 24-26): Nathan Chen, Ross Miner, Adam Rippon
GP/JGPF (Dec. 6-9): Alexei Krasnozhon, Camden Pulkinen and Andrew Torgashev (likely) for JGPF, GPF TBD
Right now, based on numbers and results, I'd layout the men's field like this
Top Contenders: Nathan, Max, Jason, Vincent, Adam (in order of overall scores)
Dark Horses (+4CC contenders): Ross, Alexei Krasnozhon, Alex Johnson, Grant Hochstein, and Timothy Dolensky
Junior World Contenders: Alexei Krasnozhon, Andrew Torgashev, Camden Pulkinen and Tomoki Hiwatashi
View a lot of competition for everything!!
A few notes about our top contenders.
Nathan - If there was a lock for the Olympic Team, this is it. He has a 15-point advantage and that was with "watering down" his programs. As we saw in Japan Open, the key is to maintain the choreography as he's adding more jumps.
Vincent - His FS at Finlandia showed his ambition. However, he will be subject to the technical panel and has to make sure they're around without any doubt. If he does then his odds on the Olympic team are pretty good. His PCS are relatively low, not unusual for a new senior, but it will likely go up if he turns in solid performances in the GP.
Jason - He has the highest PCS, no contest. He can score decently without a quad (see Lombardia) but he'll need one quad, at least, to determine his destiny. However, history shows us that he does a good job at the clutch. He has one category where he's outside the top 6 (SP TES), but otherwise within the top 3 or 4
Max - Max looked great at U.S. Classic and had solid TES. He will need to maintain consistency throughout the season and not lose points through so many little things. Max may see his PCS improve if he keeps consistent.
Adam - Adam should consider Finlandia a success. He is among the top 6 is all categories, so that keeps him in the conversation. It remains to be seen if the 4Z will get done, but it seems he's putting his eggs in that basket for now. His PCS is decent. Like Jason, he also needs a quad, and more so because he does not get as high PCS.
I think Nathan is a likely lock and the other four are fighting for two spots. This is different from my assessment previously. Vincent certainly was impressive in Finlandia, but his SP performance tempered my odds a bit for him. I say that it's a matter whether Jason, Max and Vincent can up any deficits (TES for Jason, PCS for Max and Vincent). Adam is pretty well balanced in both, but he'll need to up both numbers to get on that team.
And a few comments about our dark horses:
Ross Miner - Judges like him. He has great skating skills and very lovely choreography in both programs, but he will need to hit consistency. It was a delight to see him hit 160+ in his FS at Finlandia. It's been a little while!
Alexei - This guy is a competitor. He does not give up on anything or let anything go. He has to work on polish, but I think he could spoil the party.
Alexander - He has great performance ability and his result at Nebelhorn was the best international we've seen from him from a while.
Grant - Great SP at Ondrej, not so great FS. He has two very good programs if performed to their best, will be very compelling to watch.
Tim - He's my least dark, dark horse, but he does have good performances in him, so we'll see.
But it's still pretty early, so we'll see how things look after the GP.
And now for the numbers. Top 6 men in each category (with rankings of top contenders if they're outside).
Overall
Nathan Chen - 275.04
Max Aaron - 261.56
Jason Brown - 259.88
Vincent Zhou - 250.01
Adam Rippon - 249.88
Ross Miner - 233.72
SP
Nathan Chen - 91.80
Max Aaron -86.06
Adam Rippon -83.69
Jason Brown 83.01
Alexander Johnson - 82.55
Alexei Krasnozhon - 80.26
SP TES
Max Aaron 48.41
Nathan Chen 47.40
Alexei Krasnozhon - 45.25
Alexander Johnson - 44.35
Grant Hochstein -42.93
Tim Dolensky -42.50
---
8. Vincent Zhou 40.64
9. Jason Brown 39.26
SP PCS
Jason Brown 44.75
Nathan Chen 44.40
Adam Rippon 41.75
Ross Miner 38.96
Alexander Johnson 38.21
Grant Hochsten 38.05
---
7. Max Aaron 37.65
10. Vincent Zhou 35.46
FS
Nathan Chen 183.24
Jason Brown 176.87
Max Aaron 175.50
Vincent Zhou 173.91
Adam Rippon 166.19
Ross Miner 162.08
FS TES
Vincent Zhou 97.97
Nathan Chen 95.24
Max Aaron 94.90
Jason Brown 85.07
Adam Rippon 81.85
Ross Miner 80.86
FS PCS
Jason Brown 91.80
Nathan Chen 88.00
Adam Rippon 85.34
Ross Miner 82.08
Max Aaron 80.60
Timothy Dolensky 77.40
--
8. Vincent Zhou 75.94
Our Challenger Series medalists so far:
Nathan Chen (U.S. Classic, 1st)
Max Aaron (U.S. Classic, 2nd)
Jason Brown (Lombardia, 2nd)
Vincent Zhou (Finlandia 2nd)
Alexander Johnson (Nebelhorn, 2nd)
Adam Rippon (Finlandia 3nd)
Challenge Series events left:
Warsaw Cup, Nov. 16-19
Tallinn Trophy Nov. 21-26
Golden Spin Dec. 6-9
GP Series:
Rostelecom Cup (Oct. 20-22): Nathan Chen, Grant Hochstein
Skate Canada (Oct. 27-29): Jason Brown
Cup of China (Nov. 3-5): Max Aaron, Grant Hochstein, Vincent Zhou
NHK Trophy (Nov. 10-12): Jason Brown, Adam Rippon
Internationaux de France (Nov. 17-19): Max Aaron, Vincent Zhou
Skate America (Nov. 24-26): Nathan Chen, Ross Miner, Adam Rippon
GP/JGPF (Dec. 6-9): Alexei Krasnozhon, Camden Pulkinen and Andrew Torgashev (likely) for JGPF, GPF TBD
Right now, based on numbers and results, I'd layout the men's field like this
Top Contenders: Nathan, Max, Jason, Vincent, Adam (in order of overall scores)
Dark Horses (+4CC contenders): Ross, Alexei Krasnozhon, Alex Johnson, Grant Hochstein, and Timothy Dolensky
Junior World Contenders: Alexei Krasnozhon, Andrew Torgashev, Camden Pulkinen and Tomoki Hiwatashi
View a lot of competition for everything!!
A few notes about our top contenders.
Nathan - If there was a lock for the Olympic Team, this is it. He has a 15-point advantage and that was with "watering down" his programs. As we saw in Japan Open, the key is to maintain the choreography as he's adding more jumps.
Vincent - His FS at Finlandia showed his ambition. However, he will be subject to the technical panel and has to make sure they're around without any doubt. If he does then his odds on the Olympic team are pretty good. His PCS are relatively low, not unusual for a new senior, but it will likely go up if he turns in solid performances in the GP.
Jason - He has the highest PCS, no contest. He can score decently without a quad (see Lombardia) but he'll need one quad, at least, to determine his destiny. However, history shows us that he does a good job at the clutch. He has one category where he's outside the top 6 (SP TES), but otherwise within the top 3 or 4
Max - Max looked great at U.S. Classic and had solid TES. He will need to maintain consistency throughout the season and not lose points through so many little things. Max may see his PCS improve if he keeps consistent.
Adam - Adam should consider Finlandia a success. He is among the top 6 is all categories, so that keeps him in the conversation. It remains to be seen if the 4Z will get done, but it seems he's putting his eggs in that basket for now. His PCS is decent. Like Jason, he also needs a quad, and more so because he does not get as high PCS.
I think Nathan is a likely lock and the other four are fighting for two spots. This is different from my assessment previously. Vincent certainly was impressive in Finlandia, but his SP performance tempered my odds a bit for him. I say that it's a matter whether Jason, Max and Vincent can up any deficits (TES for Jason, PCS for Max and Vincent). Adam is pretty well balanced in both, but he'll need to up both numbers to get on that team.
And a few comments about our dark horses:
Ross Miner - Judges like him. He has great skating skills and very lovely choreography in both programs, but he will need to hit consistency. It was a delight to see him hit 160+ in his FS at Finlandia. It's been a little while!
Alexei - This guy is a competitor. He does not give up on anything or let anything go. He has to work on polish, but I think he could spoil the party.
Alexander - He has great performance ability and his result at Nebelhorn was the best international we've seen from him from a while.
Grant - Great SP at Ondrej, not so great FS. He has two very good programs if performed to their best, will be very compelling to watch.
Tim - He's my least dark, dark horse, but he does have good performances in him, so we'll see.
But it's still pretty early, so we'll see how things look after the GP.
And now for the numbers. Top 6 men in each category (with rankings of top contenders if they're outside).
Overall
Nathan Chen - 275.04
Max Aaron - 261.56
Jason Brown - 259.88
Vincent Zhou - 250.01
Adam Rippon - 249.88
Ross Miner - 233.72
SP
Nathan Chen - 91.80
Max Aaron -86.06
Adam Rippon -83.69
Jason Brown 83.01
Alexander Johnson - 82.55
Alexei Krasnozhon - 80.26
SP TES
Max Aaron 48.41
Nathan Chen 47.40
Alexei Krasnozhon - 45.25
Alexander Johnson - 44.35
Grant Hochstein -42.93
Tim Dolensky -42.50
---
8. Vincent Zhou 40.64
9. Jason Brown 39.26
SP PCS
Jason Brown 44.75
Nathan Chen 44.40
Adam Rippon 41.75
Ross Miner 38.96
Alexander Johnson 38.21
Grant Hochsten 38.05
---
7. Max Aaron 37.65
10. Vincent Zhou 35.46
FS
Nathan Chen 183.24
Jason Brown 176.87
Max Aaron 175.50
Vincent Zhou 173.91
Adam Rippon 166.19
Ross Miner 162.08
FS TES
Vincent Zhou 97.97
Nathan Chen 95.24
Max Aaron 94.90
Jason Brown 85.07
Adam Rippon 81.85
Ross Miner 80.86
FS PCS
Jason Brown 91.80
Nathan Chen 88.00
Adam Rippon 85.34
Ross Miner 82.08
Max Aaron 80.60
Timothy Dolensky 77.40
--
8. Vincent Zhou 75.94
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2017
He has a 4T but hasn't been doing it because the toeing in on it bothers his injury from last season.
Also, Adam didn't do his Rippon jump at Finlandia because of a dislocated shoulder.
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2017
Oh, that explains it! I joked about him betraying his rippons and after all there was a legitimate medical reason for it, sorry Adam! Wishing him a speedy recovery.
Wow! Had no clue about the dislocated shoulder. It makes Adam's performances at Finlandia all the more impressive (not to mention the near win - it was so close between the top 3 that it really did come down to the underrotation call on Adam's second 3lutz in the LP).
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2014
After Adam's free skate at 2016 Worlds, Johnny Weir was rhapsodizing over a lot of Adam's elements. Including "Outrageously Beautiful Spins."
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2014
With Alexei K. and Camden making the final, I'd say the US men are looking good for the future. With Nathan and Vincent being quite young, it would appear that we'll be in contention at the big events for the next 5 years.
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2013
And yet people are still trying to say that Zhou is a "lock" or "odds-on" for the team and Brown and Aaron are fighting for the third spot. Mmmmmmmmmmkay.
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2012
I am really, really happy for Adam. He is absolutely beautiful on the ice and when he's "on" it's a thing to behold. I was at work all day and didn't see the results until just now. My personal opinion? Vincent isn't going to medal at Nationals very easily and to say he's a lock....not buying it. I think the only LOCK is Nathan unless he wipes up the ice with his nether regions. With the rest of them it's going to come down to who has a good skate and who doesn't. Each of them has their good points and their weak points. May the good win out!!!!
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
Zhou is going for a 5-quad program. His scoring ceiling has so much more room to grow than the other guys who will only be attempting 1 or 2 quads in the LP and are starting the season with a more established jump layout and PCS base.
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2013
Aaron is going for 3 or 4.
Base value means nothing if you aren't pulling it off. It means even less if you aren't rotating your jumps.
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