2017-2018 State of Russian Ice Dance

[Snow63]

At worlds 2017 they were a bit too far behind ... otherwise they would have been lucky, all teams in front of them allowing them to nearly gain that medal. H/D would have been out of reach, but are prone to errors. Could be that the SD will make the difference - the rendition of B/S isn't my cup of tea at all, while I was surprised, in a positive way, by S/K. The FD of B/S didn't turn out as interesting as one should expect with this coreographer (perhaps they sould have opted for Yuri Smekalov, responsible for this wonderful program of Stolbova/Klimov, sadly never skated to its full potential, but it was more of dancing together than some ice dance programs), but it's a good FD for them, athough not one to make up for a greater margin after the OD, I presume.
The SD of H/D isn't convincing for me (at the moment, impression may change during the season)- they're not P/C who can afford to set their own pace and accents in relation to a given theme not fitting their own unique style very well (and talking about that issue in an interview)

I'm afraid there will be not such a great amount of great SD's ... so - perhaps Zhulin is right that it's mostly a matter of levels in that portion of competition (why B/S have issues with THAT and why certain couples shine with great coreography nevertheless .... is a secret yet to be solved :whack: - Eteri Tutberidze is perfect in solving such "secrets" of IJS ... in Russia for LADIES ONLY).

I find this statement very wrong. I would say that Bobrova/Soloviev gave their opponents a headstart with two visible mistakes in the SD, which costed them at least 3 points (and I'm talking about BV only, without PCS reduction and GOE drop). There was visible separation during PSt, and mistake on double twizzle. These are really costly mistakes. Especially in the SD where starting order for the FD is determined. So no, I disagree with you. They opened the door themselve in the SD, not other teams 'bombed'.

They won the SD at Euros over Papadakis/Cizeron and Cappellini/Lanotte, and they were 3rd in the FD at Worlds. They are perfectly capable.

 

[bramweld]

I find this statement very wrong. I would say that Bobrova/Soloviev gave their opponents a headstart with two visible mistakes in the SD, which costed them at least 3 points (and I'm talking about BV only, without PCS reduction and GOE drop). There was visible separation during PSt, and mistake on double twizzle. These are really costly mistakes. Especially in the SD where starting order for the FD is determined. So no, I disagree with you. They opened the door themselve in the SD, not other teams 'bombed'.

They won the SD at Euros over Papadakis/Cizeron and Cappellini/Lanotte, and they were 3rd in the FD at Worlds. They are perfectly capable.

True, but they had a relatively plausible SD last year. But this years SD is just so, honestly words fail me. I put the blame equally on both them and Zhulin, I mean this could be your last competitive SD and this is it? Coomes and Buckland could actually beat them at both OG and Worlds. And we haven't even seen the Shibs, C/L or C/B yet.

 

[coldblueeyes]

True, but they had a relatively plausible SD last year. But this years SD is just so, honestly words fail me. I put the blame equally on both them and Zhulin, I mean this could be your last competitive SD and this is it? Coomes and Buckland could actually beat them at both OG and Worlds. And we haven't even seen the Shibs, C/L or C/B yet.

I want to see Penny and Nick coming close to them in direct competition. Nebelhorn was quite overscored all around compared to Nepela, but especially in the SD. Not saying they can't ever beat them, of course.

 

[Snow63]

True, but they had a relatively plausible SD last year. But this years SD is just so, honestly words fail me. I put the blame equally on both them and Zhulin, I mean this could be your last competitive SD and this is it? Coomes and Buckland could actually beat them at both OG and Worlds. And we haven't even seen the Shibs, C/L or C/B yet.

You already said the same stuff about their FD last season. Let me look at the scores they received for it last season :sarcasm:

 

[Snow63]

Let's talk about other russian teams.

I wonder if Elena and Ruslan have parted on good terms? Some people speculate Ruslan 'slammed the door shut behind his back' for some reason. Are they active on social media now?

 

[madison]

Let's talk about other russian teams.

I wonder if Elena and Ruslan have parted on good terms? Some people speculate Ruslan 'slammed the door shut behind his back' for some reason. Are they active on social media now?

Wow, possible )) but it doesn't seem Ruslan's style though and he is still in a relationship with Elena's friend Ksenia. On the other hand, I don't think Elena and he had ever a very good strong connection on and off ice.... But what about Elena? Is she and Anton a couple off ice? They look like that, I mean especially Elena she looks very much into him

 

[bramweld]

So you guys really think B/S have great vehicles this season? Wow........wow.

 

[coldblueeyes]

So you guys really think B/S have great vehicles this season? Wow........wow.

Yes.

 

[bramweld]

Yes.

I need to go clean my contact lenses, because I only see tired retreads and poor posture. But hey it could be the poor video quality that's marring my judgement of things. But then again all that blue fringe. But hey, they are Russia's No.1's.

Just for the record, my favourite SD from them was Chess in 2011, as for FDs I liked Crazy and Karenina (by the time they got it to EC). So hey I just think they had so much potential but just didn't have the right coaching.

 

[noidont]

Ruslan seems like a very temperamental guy to me. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he slams a door or two. Thinking back he really wasn't a great partner for either Sinitsna or Ilinykh. He couldn't lift them (I still remember S/Z in their first senior season, the lifts were cringeworthy) and barely ever contributed emotionally to the programs.

 

[Ender]

So you guys really think B/S have great vehicles this season? Wow........wow.

They will still do enough to medal at European.

 

[coldblueeyes]

I need to go clean my contact lenses, because I only see tired retreads and poor posture. But hey it could be the poor video quality that's marring my judgement of things. But then again all that blue fringe. But hey, they are Russia's No.1's.

Just for the record, my favourite SD from them was Chess in 2011, as for FDs I liked Crazy and Karenina (by the time they got it to EC). So hey I just think they had so much potential but just didn't have the right coaching.

Same story for a lot of russian ID teams, if we go by that. A lot of potential, not a lot of results.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

When do katsalapov and sinitsina debut this season?

 

[SnowWhite]

When do katsalapov and sinitsina debut this season?

They aren't down for Finlandia. The challengers after that don't have entries out. Their first GP is NHK.

 

[gmyers]

When do katsalapov and sinitsina debut this season?

When his teams always do. November.

 

[Eisfee]

When do katsalapov and sinitsina debut this season?

They will go to National Cup in Yochka Ola next week and then do the Challanger in Minsk.

 

[Kittosuni]

I need to go clean my contact lenses, because I only see tired retreads and poor posture. But hey it could be the poor video quality that's marring my judgement of things. But then again all that blue fringe. But hey, they are Russia's No.1's.

Just for the record, my favourite SD from them was Chess in 2011, as for FDs I liked Crazy and Karenina (by the time they got it to EC). So hey I just think they had so much potential but just didn't have the right coaching.

Their FD is really promising. It looks fresh(for them) and has the NA stamp on it that the judges really loves.

Regarding the SD. Their program looks OK. That's actually good because aside from V/M no other teams that we saw so far come close to actually dancing to the theme. Everyone looks trying hard and awkward. Maybe teams will get better as season progressed but i doubt.

SD will come down to levels and reputation for the PCS because there is no way teams are should be getting high marks in PE especially IN.

The problem with B/S is that even if they get the levels, their GEO are usually just OK.

 

[bramweld]

Their FD is really promising. It looks fresh(for them) and has the NA stamp on it that the judges really loves.

Regarding the SD. Their program looks OK. That's actually good because aside from V/M no other teams that we saw so far come close to actually dancing to the theme. Everyone looks trying hard and awkward. Maybe teams will get better as season progressed but i doubt.

SD will come down to levels and reputation for the PCS because there is no way teams are should be getting high marks in PE especially IN.

The problem with B/S is that even if they get the levels, their GEO are usually just OK.

The problem is they will get the levels as will C/B, Shibs, C/L, H/D no doubt for these. But I actually think these other teams will have much more sophisticated programs. I know that Zhulin was only trying to mask her poor posture with this type of SD but I honestly feel a more satirical/comedic SD would have won them more PCS. They will need that this season. Coomes and Buckland's programs are also dynamite. I would not count them out. IMHO, B/S caught the NA train too late. The FD IMHO, is a bit too flat, there is no difference in levels between the two parts and the choreo is so very very open. Crazy and Karenina were better vehicles. I actually thought they would have revemped Anna Karenina for this season. But as I said before maybe its the video quality that is problematic. Something is just missing this year from B/S' programs, finesse that could be it. How could Zhulin saddle them with just adequate programs for an Olympic season? Their programs are a sorry cry from the vehicles Morozov gave I/K in 2014. IMHO.

 

[flakyy]

I find this statement very wrong. I would say that Bobrova/Soloviev gave their opponents a headstart with two visible mistakes in the SD, which costed them at least 3 points (and I'm talking about BV only, without PCS reduction and GOE drop). There was visible separation during PSt, and mistake on double twizzle. These are really costly mistakes. Especially in the SD where starting order for the FD is determined. So no, I disagree with you. They opened the door themselve in the SD, not other teams 'bombed'.

They won the SD at Euros over Papadakis/Cizeron and Cappellini/Lanotte, and they were 3rd in the FD at Worlds. They are perfectly capable.

Obviously YOU got me completely wrong ... :noshake:
I didn't criticize their old SD per se, I didn't even talk about that; The SD last year was o.k. and judges quite liked it.
The meaning of my post is actually THIS (I hope this explanation will do it):
1) It CAN happen that their new "Latin" SD, which is NOT good at all (THAT corresponds to the statement of Zhulin - SD is nothing but levels (something B/S have issues with)), puts them far behind (like last years worlds) PER SE (without making mistakes by their own).
2) IF this happens, THEN they will have a lot of couples in front of them and THEN they need mistakes from most of those couples in the FD (like last year) in order to close the gap. But something like that doesn't happen this often and probably not two years in a row.
3) What I don't get: it's obvious the SD is very important (V/M won Worlds with that last year). So one should invest in coreography there as well.
4) The marks given by the judges are another story - it CAN happen that B/S will get high PCS no matter what they skate to. Then they will be definitely in contention (if they hit their Levels and key points). It happened quite often in the past. Some of their SD's had a good concept ("chess" and the SD in 2013), but Latin isn't their thing and giving them a coreography that doesn't even try to hide the problem DOES augment the probability that judges take notice of it (composition of the panel becomes important then ...). US and Canadian teams invest a lot of work in their programs (G/P - tango FD last year: a great amount of work was put in those tiny little details - S/B, on the contrary, didn't get into the thing to this degree). They are not save from misfits. But Russian Ice dance doesn't like IJS and has problems with coreography which are not adressed. They win medals at Grand Prix and at Euros, GPF and Worlds are another story. B/S managed to do it with their hard work and two good programs in 2013.
But in 2018 - a good FD, a bit copy and paste Montreal, & an SD far from ideal (at least at the moment - and it's only 4 1/2 months to go)??? Whith that and the fact that IJS isn't appreciated in Russia the success of the past is out of reach.

 

[Marta25]

Their FD is really promising. It looks fresh(for them) and has the NA stamp on it that the judges really loves.

Regarding the SD. Their program looks OK. That's actually good because aside from V/M no other teams that we saw so far come close to actually dancing to the theme. Everyone looks trying hard and awkward. Maybe teams will get better as season progressed but i doubt.

SD will come down to levels and reputation for the PCS because there is no way teams are should be getting high marks in PE especially IN.

The problem with B/S is that even if they get the levels, their GEO are usually just OK.

Since I love analyzing ice dance protocols , I went to check B/S`s GOE in last season`s GPF, Euros and Worlds. In terms of GOE, the GPF was their worst competition, they had the 4th highest GOE in the SD, but only the 6th and last place in the FD. Europeans went great for them, where in both parts of the competition they had the 2nd highest GOE behind P/C. It was already mentioned that they had issues at Worlds in the SD and their GOE was only the 6th highest of the night, behind all American teams, but above Canada`s #2 and #3. The FD went really well for them, where they got the 4th highest GOE, although it has to be considered that both C/B and H/D had big mistakes and W/P and C/L were very close to them.

Once the Olympics come around hitting those levels will be important for any team that is competing for the OBM. It`s true that B/S usually receive higher PCS than H/D, W/P and C/L, but the margin isn`t big enough, that it could balance out a lower base value. The fight over that Bronze is going to be as exciting as the one over the Gold.

Anyway, the draw for the Olympic judges was held in Oberstdorf http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2017/10/02/257160062

Every team that is competing for the medals has a judge on the panel, so none of the teams has here a significant advantage.