Creative+Difficult Entries/Exits 2017-18

[charlotte14]

I feel like counter turn into axel has actually become rather ubiquitous and is overrated as a "difficult" entry for the jump.

Yes I would love to see more people do counter into 3A but there is still none. So overrated because the rest of the skaters don't bother do to such "easy" entry into 3A.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Nothing special about the entry but the exit is really cool out of this 3z.

https://youtu.be/-JgPd1i0EKg?t=1m57s

 

[DorYiu]

Carreira/Ponomarenko:

https://youtu.be/bOeWK1O08Ik?t=2m44s

Spin entry into spins :luv17:

 

[nolangoh]

i don't quite like exits that are done with a rocker turn, it disrupts the flow, like people choked. A 3 turn or a mohawk exit work the best for me, it moves along with the flow and direction.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Yes I would love to see more people do counter into 3A but there is still none. So overrated because the rest of the skaters don't bother do to such "easy" entry into 3A.

I was speaking more about 2A. Doing a counter into that jump has become quite common, as a way for skaters to check off a transition box. There are more difficult entrances but the judges probably wouldn't reflect it in the scores if someone bothered to do something greater, yet at the same time a counter into 2A is treated like such a special thing and used as a way to penalize skaters who just do a standard 2A entrance.

 

[charlotte14]

I was speaking more about 2A. Doing a counter into that jump has become quite common, as a way for skaters to check off a transition box. There are more difficult entrances but the judges probably wouldn't reflect it in the scores if someone bothered to do something greater, yet at the same time a counter into 2A is treated like such a special thing and used as a way to penalize skaters who just do a standard 2A entrance.

Oh I see... but there have been not many ladies doing Charlotte Spiral into Counter and straight into 2A. I still think it is a difficult entry. The thing is... Zagitova messed it up now they have changed it to an easier version at Japan Open gala.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Any creative entries/exits spotted at Rostelecom?

 

[Spirals for Miles]

The hydroblade into the loop in Zhenya's FS!!

 

[gkelly]

Castelli/Tran end of choreo sequence into death spiral:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX1FgEVlho4&t=4m36s

 

[gkelly]

Doing a counter into that jump has become quite common, as a way for skaters to check off a transition box. There are more difficult entrances

There are also easier entrances that can still count as "difficult" and/or creative and unexpected for purposes positive GOE bullets. E.g.:
*back inside three into 2A (pretty similar to the counter, but slightly easier)
*any back outside spiral (usually with free leg side/forward) then step forward to axel takeoff
*outside spread eagle then pick up and turn in the back foot to glide on back outside edge and step forward to normal axel takeoff (stepping directly from the spread eagle to the axel would be more difficult)

but the judges probably wouldn't reflect it in the scores if someone bothered to do something greater, yet at the same time a counter into 2A is treated like such a special thing and used as a way to penalize skaters who just do a standard 2A entrance.

Anything other than a standard 2A entrance could be rewarded in the GOE (there are two possible positive bullet points available -- some difficult entries would merit both, others only one or the other), and credit in the Transitions component (for which "Difficulty" is one of the criteria, so judges should be giving more credit for more difficult entries than for easier ones), and potentially credit in the Composition component for originality.

So if someone is doing something more difficulty and more creative as their axel entry, there is plenty of room for judges to give them more credit.

If someone else is just doing back crossovers, hold the back outside edge, step forward into the axel, there's nothing to reward in terms of transitions or originality or the "unexpected/creative/difficult entry" or "clear recognizable steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element" GOE criteria. If it's done with good speed and flow and effortlessness, in time with the music, there are other GOE points to reward the jump on, maybe more than a jump with with a difficult entry that loses flow and looks effortful as a result.

If the "normal" axel entry is also telegraphed, as is often the case for less skilled skaters, then it will likely be penalized for that reason.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

Is it difficult to do these kinds of transitions? They’re more important now than even 5 years ago! But the US ladies seem to really struggle with it. Why?

 

[cl2]

Is it difficult to do these kinds of transitions? They’re more important now than even 5 years ago! But the US ladies seem to really struggle with it. Why?

In general, yes, it is more difficult to do transitions and steps going into a jump. It takes really solid technique to be able to do a jump from a variety of setups.

What I don't understand is, isn't the "creativity" criterion not objective, in the sense that it assumes some attribution to the creator and has a connotation of novelty? Suppose a skater does a new "creative" entrance one season and gets rewarded for it, and then other skaters copy it the next season, will the copycats be rewarded for a creative entrance? If you hadn't seen the previous season, how would you know who's the copycat and who's the originator? Or, what if the original skater uses his/her same "creative" entrance over the next several seasons, will it still be deemed creative?

 

[gkelly]

What I don't understand is, isn't the "creativity" criterion not objective, in the sense that it assumes some attribution to the creator and has a connotation of novelty? Suppose a skater does a new "creative" entrance one season and gets rewarded for it, and then other skaters copy it the next season, will the copycats be rewarded for a creative entrance? If you hadn't seen the previous season, how would you know who's the copycat and who's the originator? Or, what if the original skater uses his/her same "creative" entrance over the next several seasons, will it still be deemed creative?

Yes, that is a limitation of that criterion.

For the jump GOE, the first bullet point is worded as "unexpected/creative/difficult entry," so as long as at least one of those adjectives applies the skater could still earn that bullet point. Back counter into double axel may have been all three when Midori Ito did it 30 years ago; now it may only qualify as unexpected (especially if the skater makes it look like she's setting up a lutz) and difficult, but that's still enough to qualify for that bullet.

If you really want to get credit for creativity, see if you can do something that fits in specifically with the specific theme/purpose of your program. That will help in the Composition component under the "Purpose" criterion as well as Creativity, and will probably make it less common.

For the Transitions component, the criteria are Continuity of movements from one element to another; Difficulty; Variety; Quality. So do the hardest moves you can do well, but also do different kinds of transitions throughout the program, and try to avoid breaks where you're obviously not doing much other than building up speed or catching your breath.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I’m just gonna add this to the collection.

https://instagram.com/p/BafVtRenQlG/

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

What sort of wizardry is this? Does not compute!

https://instagram.com/p/BbHK7yaB5Tn/

Can someone explain? This wouldn’t be a legal entry would it?

 

[jenm]

The hydroblade into the loop in Zhenya's FS!!

That was awesome!

 

[gkelly]

What sort of wizardry is this? Does not compute!

https://instagram.com/p/BbHK7yaB5Tn/

Can someone explain? This wouldn’t be a legal entry would it?

Walley, walley, inside axel. They're unlisted jumps, so they just count as transitions. Then step forward right into a solo double axel.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Walley, walley, inside axel. They're unlisted jumps, so they just count as transitions. Then step forward right into a solo double axel.

I recognized the walleys right away but the inside axel fooled me. The inside axel is cool looking and in essence it’s just a forward facing walley for the most part isn’t it? Well at least sort of. Same take off and landing foot.

I really think that little dude executed that entry like a champ. #TeamShelepen

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

This entry into the Lutz is kinda strange and the exit is superb. She hardly sets the blade on the ice before take off.

https://youtu.be/xJWADsg4Vvk?t=1m34s

Anyone care to dissect it?

 

[gkelly]

The last few steps are just choctaw-choctaw, cross in front, which is a pretty common entry in the IJS era. What's great about this example is that she has other steps before that and keeps so much speed and flow and maintains the rhythm of the steps all the way into the jump, right off a clear outside edge.