Chen upstages Hanyu in Moscow

[kiches]

I must tell you that I made it a point to watch the movie Mao's Last Dancer... really outstanding in every respect. The fabulous music from the film which forms the body of his Free Skate program speaks to both his ballet career in his youth and was used brilliantly by Lori Nichols to construct the program. You will definitely acquire a strong perspective and appreciation on the program from viewing the film.

I'll have to see the movie one day then if that's the case. Although I've always felt that if a program needs a verbal explanation or requires that I have watched movie or book to enjoy it, then the choreography, choreographer, and/or skater has failed to portray the message with their expression and movement. It's one of the reasons why I tend not to enjoy programs from Averbukh as I feel they rely too much on a story that needs to be told verbally to understand the program, but this is just my personal taste. I wouldn't say that's the case with Nathan's free skate, as there are moments I really like without knowing the full story or having seen the film, in that sense, I think the program choreography and performance has been effective.

If like you said it was simply chosen to push the narrative of his ballet training they would've picked a much more tried and true classic ballet piece that's easier for the skater to intepret as well as the audience to digest, especially in an Olympic year. Something like what he did with his SP last year. He definitely has not performed the program to it's fullest yet and there's much room for growth, but even so to me it's clear they went out of their way to pick a unique piece that Nathan could resonate with and it felt personal. It's not just your everyday ballet program.

Even if this piece was selected because his team thought Nathan could resonate with, it doesn't mean it also isn't a program specifically selected to push the ballet narrative. It can certainly be both. I would say it's not surprising this was my first impression when I heard about the music selection as nearly every English article about Nathan I've read has the word 'ballet' or mention of his ballet background in it. Whether they were looking specifically for music with a connection to ballet that would fit Nathan, or they were looking for music that would resonate with Nathan and it happened to be music connected to ballet, I don't know, but I think it's clearly a smart and calculated choice and I like it more than his program last year.

 

[skylark]

Not surprised whatsoever. Nathan's skating is at a truly new, phenomenal level, as is Yuzuru's, as is Javier's, as is Patrick's. All in their own individual ways and styles. Which makes all this even more wonderful for skating fans.

Love Nathan's skating and I really hope he medals at olympics. His relaxed skating puts me in the right mood .I enjoyed his skating last season also though then he was focusing on jumps.

Me too. Nathan's SP just blows me away, every time. I love what he said, about deciding to work with Shae-Lynne,

"I saw Ashley’s [Wagner] personality coming through in her programmes and loved it and I thought this is something I would like to do for myself."​

If like you said it was simply chosen to push the narrative of his ballet training they would've picked a much more tried and true classic ballet piece that's easier for the skater to intepret as well as the audience to digest, especially in an Olympic year. Something like what he did with his SP last year. He definitely has not performed the program to it's fullest yet and there's much room for growth, but even so to me it's clear they went out of their way to pick a unique piece that Nathan could resonate with and it felt personal.

Agree. I can see lots of space and possibility for the program to develop over the season.

 

[Blades of Passion]

I wish Hanyu would do the SP as it was originally intended, something he abandoned after the first half of the 2014-2015 season: opening the program with the 3Axel, perfectly and calmly inbetween spread eagles. It's impossible to do this same choreography with a quad, because you have to break your body line to go into the quad. Then he could do 4Sal and 4Toe+3Toe in the later part of the program. I don't think he needs 4Loop in the SP, doing 2 quads in the bonus section would already be something nobody else is doing and be worth plenty of points. 4Loop in the SP has never paid off for him to begin with, he just ends up getting much lower GOE on it than the 4Sal.

 

[skylark]

I wish Hanyu would do the SP as it was originally intended, something he abandoned after the first half of the 2014-2015 season: opening the program with the 3Axel, perfectly and calmly inbetween spread eagles.

Yes! I remember how gorgeous that was. In fact, it was sublime.

 

[Shandy]

I must tell you that I made it a point to watch the movie Mao's Last Dancer... really outstanding in every respect. The fabulous music from the film which forms the body of his Free Skate program speaks to both his ballet career in his youth and was used brilliantly by Lori Nichols to construct the program. You will definitely acquire a strong perspective and appreciation on the program from viewing the film.

Is the Stravinsky section in the middle actually covered in the Mao's Last Dancer soundtrack? Or did they just splice Rite of Spring into the middle of it?

 

[slider11]

I have no issue with the way the first and second placement occured at Rostelcom. The quads each of Chen and Hanyu are amazing and they deserve their very high technical scores. But I am still baffled why a Misha Ge is not better rewarded on the PCS side. His posture, skating skills and overall attention to every beat of the music is superb and among the best. I get that a quad is harder to do than a triple BUT aren't you awarded for that jumping skill on the technical side? Why do quads equate to high artistic marks? Chen and Hanyu are not without artistic merit but if judges truly marked on technical and artistic as distinct skills, we would not see the "technos" receiving the same level of PCS unless they truly possessed the same extraordinary artistic skills. Ge deserved third at Rostelcom.

 

[TerpsichoreFS]

I really like that Chen has made his way to the top. If we talk about performance, I think Hanyu is at a level of expression and superior refinement, Nathan is young, energetic, if he works on his PCS he can certainly fight for Olympic Gold.

I don't know how long you've followed figure skating for, but this is word for word something that could have been said, and was probably said, 4 years ago about Patrick and Yuzuru. And it is so weird considering how different Yuzuru is from Patrick and Nathan from Yuzuru. I personnally don't think Yuzuru is particularly refined, which is the reason I like him. But it is interesting how people always think a way about established skaters and another about upstarts.

 

[skylark]

Is the Stravinsky section in the middle actually covered in the Mao's Last Dancer soundtrack? Or did they just splice Rite of Spring into the middle of it?

I haven't seen the movie or heard the soundtrack. But I listened to Nathan talking about the program at Japan Open. The Rite of Spring is what the dancer danced to in a dramatic and important part of the movie (and also of the dancer's life; it's a biopic). By reading posts from others who have seen the movie, I can be 99.9% sure that it's part of the soundtrack.

 

[Shandy]

I haven't seen the movie or heard the soundtrack. But I listened to Nathan talking about the program at Japan Open. The Rite of Spring is what the skater danced to in a dramatic and important part of the movie (and also of the skater's life; it's a biopic). By reading posts from others who have seen the movie, I can be 99.9% sure that it's part of the soundtrack.

I see, thanks! The Rite of Spring is such a powerful and polarizing piece. Now I'm interested to see how it's used in the film.

 

[skylark]

I see, thanks! The Rite of Spring is such a powerful and polarizing piece. Now I'm interested to see how it's used in the film.

You're welcome. And I mistakenly called the dancer in the movie a "skater." I've corrected that now.

 

[kiches]

I have no issue with the way the first and second placement occured at Rostelcom. The quads each of Chen and Hanyu are amazing and they deserve their very high technical scores. But I am still baffled why a Misha Ge is not better rewarded on the PCS side. His posture, skating skills and overall attention to every beat of the music is superb and among the best. I get that a quad is harder to do than a triple BUT aren't you awarded for that jumping skill on the technical side? Why do quads equate to high artistic marks? Chen and Hanyu are not without artistic merit but if judges truly marked on technical and artistic as distinct skills, we would not see the "technos" receiving the same level of PCS unless they truly possessed the same extraordinary artistic skills. Ge deserved third at Rostelcom.

I need to go through and watch the rest of the men in Russia to see Misha skated, but I've seen him skate in person before as recently as Autumn Classic in September. I think Misha excels in certain parts of PCS - his interpretation and performance abilities are usually excellent and he brings out the best in his programs in those aspects. However he can be noticeably slower in his program than other top skaters and it can detract from the overall program in those moments,I think that is a part of why his PCS are lower.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I need to go through and watch the rest of the men in Russia to see Misha skated, but I've seen him skate in person before as recently as Autumn Classic in September. I think Misha excels in certain parts of PCS - his interpretation and performance abilities are usually excellent and he brings out the best in his programs in those aspects. However he can be noticeably slower in his program than other top skaters and it can detract from the overall program in those moments,I think that is a part of why his PCS are lower.

Misha has great performance qualities and his lines have improved, but I still get a sense that he skates "small". That said, I'm never bored watching him skate and if this was 6.0 and not in Russia, Ge probably (hopefully!) would have ended up 3rd. No way would the judges have put his FS behind Kolyada, and even in the SP they might have had him ahead.

As far as Nathan, this is a very strong statement in his first Grand Prix... taking out the reigning World Champ, but still having lots of room for improvement in both programs.

His programs are great vehicles and presumably at Skate America, the judges will give him the opposite treatment as Rostelecom and boost his PCS. Come the GPF, a clean skate from him should be be hovering around the 45ish/92ish range, which is appropriate given his technical difficulty and obvious improvement in the quality of his programs/overall skating this season.

 

[snowflake]

I wish Hanyu would do the SP as it was originally intended, something he abandoned after the first half of the 2014-2015 season: opening the program with the 3Axel, perfectly and calmly inbetween spread eagles. It's impossible to do this same choreography with a quad, because you have to break your body line to go into the quad. Then he could do 4Sal and 4Toe+3Toe in the later part of the program. I don't think he needs 4Loop in the SP, doing 2 quads in the bonus section would already be something nobody else is doing and be worth plenty of points. 4Loop in the SP has never paid off for him to begin with, he just ends up getting much lower GOE on it than the 4Sal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0zslufodVw&t=32m13s

 

[KatGrace1925]

I'm in camp tired of repeated programs, especially programs that have had a moment. Not to say they couldn't have another one. Ashley did have a moment at 2015 nationals with MR and again at 2016 worlds. I just find myself being really aware of what Haynu is going to do next in the choreography because I have seen the program so many times.

 

[Tutto]

I have no issue with the way the first and second placement occured at Rostelcom. The quads each of Chen and Hanyu are amazing and they deserve their very high technical scores. But I am still baffled why a Misha Ge is not better rewarded on the PCS side. His posture, skating skills and overall attention to every beat of the music is superb and among the best. I get that a quad is harder to do than a triple BUT aren't you awarded for that jumping skill on the technical side? Why do quads equate to high artistic marks? Chen and Hanyu are not without artistic merit but if judges truly marked on technical and artistic as distinct skills, we would not see the "technos" receiving the same level of PCS unless they truly possessed the same extraordinary artistic skills. Ge deserved third at Rostelcom.

Misha Ge skated very well indeed and was rewarded with his PB at CoR, it was not though enough for the podium. Even if a few points of 'home advantage' PCS were taken off Kolyada's score he still would be ahead of Misha due to big difference in BV. Kolyada's SS are excellent also he has power, speed and great ice coverage which Misha lacks. I sense it more obvious to the judges than to some fans. Misha Ge's tech content Kolyada could skate clean in his sleep, instead he is trying to push his boundaries going from 3 quads last season to 5 - naturally he is bound to make mistakes especially at the beginning of the season. Give the guy a break...

 

[skateluvr]

Not surprised at all. I said last season I think he can be gold or silver but want to add bronze. Barring a meltdown or a patch of bad ice I expect to see him on the Oly and world podium and it could easily be gold. He is a killer competitor and it would be great for US skating. I think it is his time and really Yuzu did not give an Olympic LP to win the gold last time. May the best man win and it is all about the quads. Really there are5 or 6 guys who can do these jumps.

I just hope Nathan and Javi get a medal. And I hope Boyang doesn’t just quad his way to podium. So I guess if these two got a medal I hope Shoma is the Japanese Guy this time. Although I love Yuzu I just like to see others have their big day in the sun.

 

[chillgil]

Not surprised at all. I said last season I think he can be gold or silver but want to add bronze. Barring a meltdown or a patch of bad ice I expect to see him on the Oly and world podium and it could easily be gold. He is a killer competitor and it would be great for US skating. I think it is his time and really Yuzu did not give an Olympic LP to win the gold last time. May the best man win and it is all about the quads. Really there are5 or 6 guys who can do these jumps.

I just hope Nathan and Javi get a medal. And I hope Boyang doesn’t just quad his way to podium. So I guess if these two got a medal I hope Shoma is the Japanese Guy this time. Although I love Yuzu I just like to see others have their big day in the sun.

How can you say that you hope Boyang doesn’t jump his way to the podium when in fact that’s exactly the reason why Nathan would podium? Yeah he’s definitely improved his choreography and ss but so has my boy jin boyang

 

[shine]

How can you say that you hope Boyang doesn’t jump his way to the podium when in fact that’s exactly the reason why Nathan would podium? Yeah he’s definitely improved his choreography and ss but so has my boy jin boyang

Not to the extend that Chen has, sorry.

 

[chillgil]

Not to the extend that Chen has, sorry.

I think you could be thinking that uper body choreographical movements = good ss but that’s not the case. Watch some recent programs from boyang and nathan and tell me who utilizes more one foot skating

 

[shine]

I think you could be thinking that uper body choreographical movements = good ss but that’s not the case. Watch some recent programs from boyang and nathan and tell me who utilizes more one foot skating

I don't know who uses more one-foot skating - I haven't counted frame by frame like some like to do, but one foot skating alone is also not the only component of skating skills. Also you mentioned both choreography and SS in your previous post.