Chen upstages Hanyu in Moscow | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Chen upstages Hanyu in Moscow

I don't know who uses more one-foot skating - I haven't counted frame by frame like some like to do, but one foot skating alone is also not the only component of skating skills. Also you mentioned both choreography and SS in your previous post.

There is need to count frames to know who has more one foot skating? :scratch2: But hey, I'll help - Boyang has more. Where it gets interesting is when you realize he manages to have more speed while performing more one foot skating and turns/changes of direction too. His knees are also a bit better then Nathans, since they are less 'stiff' and he uses them better to shift/generate speed. What would you say Nathan is better in regarding the SS categories?

And I don't mean to belittle Nathan. He did very well in CoR and won deservedly, having 2 interesting programs that definitely suit him well. His flow across the ice has improved nicely, his nice lines & upper body movements are worked into the programs a lot better, and I think he projects and fills the ice more - there is a lot to compliment there.

But I do have a problem with people belittling Boyang - again.
 
One thing to note: this doesn't mean Yuzu is done. Remember that in the fall of 2013, he won silvers and was bested by Chan by 28 points(!), but then rallied and took the GPF, Olympic and World titles.

Caveat: I think he has some work ahead of him since he caught Patrick last time on the basis of a superior technical base value and execution. This time though, Nathan's base level is extraordinarily high technically.

Well-written article, and I'm happy for Nathan, but nothing is over until the final group skates in Pyeongchang.
 
There is need to count frames to know who has more one foot skating? :scratch2: But hey, I'll help - Boyang has more. Where it gets interesting is when you realize he manages to have more speed while performing more one foot skating and turns/changes of direction too. His knees are also a bit better then Nathans, since they are less 'stiff' and he uses them better to shift/generate speed. What would you say Nathan is better in regarding the SS categories?

And I don't mean to belittle Nathan. He did very well in CoR and won deservedly, having 2 interesting programs that definitely suit him well. His flow across the ice has improved nicely, his nice lines & upper body movements are worked into the programs a lot better, and I think he projects and fills the ice more - there is a lot to compliment there.

But I do have a problem with people belittling Boyang - again.

really dear, opinions are what make a conversation. This is not the fan fest thread and while I agree that Boyang has 8mproved I am not a fan of his music choices in general and his choreography needs work. Also his costumes. If he wasn’t a quad meister he would not be in the top 6. He is not in the same league imho and it’s just my opinion but that’s what we do here- opine and discuss- as Yuzuru, Javier, Shoma, Patrick and last but not least the Uber talented Nathan Chen.

He would not be in the same league as Jason Brown without those quads which is the name of the game in men’s singles now. Now let’s not be nationalistic wh n we compare talent. I honestly don’t think difficult as in endless one foot sequences is what makes skating worth watching. They are boring and rediculous at this point. The cop fails when it is amount doing ugly senseless moves for point difficulty rather than a well choreographed program. There are a few skaters very few all mentioned above that combine elegance with quads. I hope now that the sport has basically gone as far as it can with jump content they will revamp the scoring so skaters like Jason Brown are emulated more than a Boyang Jin.

Not to belittle his effort and talent but as currently presented I just don’t enjoy watching him. I am very selective about who I will watch and in what order. Maybe Boyang will get new choreographers costumers etc and make a program I consider beautiful to watch. It could happen and yes he has improved.

But really are there fans who really count frames to see how long a skater is on one foot??? It isn’t just sport it is art and without the artistry it might as well just be a jumping contest. I think the footwork sequences are usually rushed inane boring and add nothing to,the total skate. Yeah it is more difficult to skate on one foot. That is like when Zhenya Tanos every jump. To much of any one move is not good. I suggest one watch Jason Brown to see what beautiful skating is. Triples are fine with me when the rest is so superior.
 
^ But Skaters should be on one foot all the time (except for an Ina Bauer or a spread eagle), isn't that right?.Skating on two feet looks terrible and shows lack of basic skills. Even I can skate on two feet. (Sort of). :)
 
really dear, opinions are what make a conversation. This is not the fan fest thread and while I agree that Boyang has 8mproved I am not a fan of his music choices in general and his choreography needs work. Also his costumes. If he wasn’t a quad meister he would not be in the top 6. He is not in the same league imho and it’s just my opinion but that’s what we do here- opine and discuss- as Yuzuru, Javier, Shoma, Patrick and last but not least the Uber talented Nathan Chen.

He would not be in the same league as Jason Brown without those quads which is the name of the game in men’s singles now. Now let’s not be nationalistic wh n we compare talent. I honestly don’t think difficult as in endless one foot sequences is what makes skating worth watching. They are boring and rediculous at this point. The cop fails when it is amount doing ugly senseless moves for point difficulty rather than a well choreographed program. There are a few skaters very few all mentioned above that combine elegance with quads. I hope now that the sport has basically gone as far as it can with jump content they will revamp the scoring so skaters like Jason Brown are emulated more than a Boyang Jin.

Not to belittle his effort and talent but as currently presented I just don’t enjoy watching him. I am very selective about who I will watch and in what order. Maybe Boyang will get new choreographers costumers etc and make a program I consider beautiful to watch. It could happen and yes he has improved.

But really are there fans who really count frames to see how long a skater is on one foot??? It isn’t just sport it is art and without the artistry it might as well just be a jumping contest. I think the footwork sequences are usually rushed inane boring and add nothing to,the total skate. Yeah it is more difficult to skate on one foot. That is like when Zhenya Tanos every jump. To much of any one move is not good. I suggest one watch Jason Brown to see what beautiful skating is. Triples are fine with me when the rest is so superior.

TL:DR - "I don't know what PCS really means and how it's calculated, Boyang has inferior skating skills because of his costume, and Nathan Chen is near the artistic and ss difficulty level of Jason Brown and for some reason I think Nathan Chen would be in the top 6 men without quads"

But yes I suppose a sport in which there have been concrete guidelines as to what goes into the scoring is completely subjective to some people, those people also happen to believe in the term "alternative facts" coincidentally
 
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So basically your argument is "I think this is pretty just because I do and therefor it has to score higher and win stuff otherwise all artistry is dead"? Yeah well, I really can't argue with that.

But one thing - since you are naming Jason. Among the reasons Jason is this successful is because he does pay attention to stuff like one foot skating, long step sequences that utilize changes of direction, variety of turns, variation in speed... all those tedious things you seem to want to say shouldn't matter. It's a bit puzzling to bring up Jason in an argument like this.

^ But Skaters should be on one foot all the time (except for an Ina Bauer or a spread eagle), isn't that right?.Skating on two feet looks terrible and shows lack of basic skills. Even I can skate on two feet. (Sort of). :)

Eh, is this supposed to be irony or something? :scratch2: I'd think it doesn't need to be spelled out like this, but it's not about two foot skating being ugly, but about the fact that skating on one foot takes more balance and needs more stamina. A sequence of turns/choreo movements compared to a long line of corssovers takes also more stamina, shows more skill with the blade and makes succeding in the next jump a lot more difficult, as you have to focus on this instead of just preparing the next jump. This is all part of what makes Figure Skating a sport (you know it ain't at the Olympics for the pretty costumes, right?).
No, that doesn't mean no skater ever should be on both his feet. Of course in every program there will be points when someone is, everyone needs crossovers to some extent, and so on. But the point is the amount of one-foot vs. two-foot skating being there and how it is one part of what makes a routine more difficult to perform and should therefor be rewarded - like the current rules for PCS/Skating skills say they should. There are other things as mentioned above - variety of turns (if you move around in nothing but 3 turns you're not winning difficulty awards either), how clean & deep your edges are, and so on. A hyperbole like "skating on 2 feet looks terrible" has nothing to do with it :shrug:


And no, nobody has to care about things like one foot skating for their own enjoyment, it is perfectly fine to say you don't care about it. But you will have to live with the fact that the CoP thinks it is important, that it is by all accounts of logic an aspect to the sport, that skaters using it should and will get credit for it, and that people on skating discussion boards will discuss it.
 
One thing to note: this doesn't mean Yuzu is done. Remember that in the fall of 2013, he won silvers and was bested by Chan by 28 points(!), but then rallied and took the GPF, Olympic and World titles.

Caveat: I think he has some work ahead of him since he caught Patrick last time on the basis of a superior technical base value and execution. This time though, Nathan's base level is extraordinarily high technically.

Well-written article, and I'm happy for Nathan, but nothing is over until the final group skates in Pyeongchang.

This :agree: I don't want to be bitter but I clearly remember how people were hyped over Nathan last year and were writing Yuzuru off but we all know what happened at the end. One skating event simply does not imply the results of the next one :confused2:
 
Not surprised at all. I said last season I think he can be gold or silver but want to add bronze. Barring a meltdown or a patch of bad ice I expect to see him on the Oly and world podium and it could easily be gold. He is a killer competitor and it would be great for US skating. I think it is his time and really Yuzu did not give an Olympic LP to win the gold last time. May the best man win and it is all about the quads. Really there are5 or 6 guys who can do these jumps.

I just hope Nathan and Javi get a medal. And I hope Boyang doesn’t just quad his way to podium. So I guess if these two got a medal I hope Shoma is the Japanese Guy this time. Although I love Yuzu I just like to see others have their big day in the sun.

So apparently to you Chen doesn't quads his way to podiums like in 4CC 2017? Of course its was his "ballet training" that got him ahead of Hanyu or was it his torment of quads. Really you've been listening to too much US media hyping up Chen as the 'ballet trained' quad maestro and Boyang (when he does get a mention) as the all quads and 0pcs Chinese guy.
 
^ But Skaters should be on one foot all the time (except for an Ina Bauer or a spread eagle), isn't that right?.Skating on two feet looks terrible and shows lack of basic skills. Even I can skate on two feet. (Sort of). :)
Have you seen a single skater that's only ever on one foot all the time?
 
There is need to count frames to know who has more one foot skating? :scratch2: But hey, I'll help - Boyang has more. Where it gets interesting is when you realize he manages to have more speed while performing more one foot skating and turns/changes of direction too. His knees are also a bit better then Nathans, since they are less 'stiff' and he uses them better to shift/generate speed. What would you say Nathan is better in regarding the SS categories?
Neither has the best speed or is without faults, but Nathan has better uses of edges and can manage complex turns much more easily and smoothly. Also having a greater amount of one foot skating doesn't equal greater quality of one foot skatig. Boyang also has these hops in his footwork sequences in order to help him build up the speed that he can't otherwise generate by using edges and turns and they come across quite elementary to me for a top level skater. In addition, Nathan just moves better than Boyang in general with better body awareness and fluidity, which is a basic criterion for presentation. Since last season I have gotten the feeling that some like to build the narrative that Boyang and Nathan are equals as skaters in order to invalidate Nathan's scores and success especially against their more established favourites. But the way I see it is they are skaters on two different levels just like how others see Chen and Hanyu are on different levels. But whatever makes you happy.
 
Have you seen a single skater that's only ever on one foot all the time?

I guess I don't know what one-footed and two-footed skating is. Even when we walk on land we go one foot, then the other foot, not both feet at the same time. In landing a jump it is considered a demerit even to graze the ice with the other skate, never mind to come down plop in both feet

But if one-foot skating means doing a long sequence on the same foot, I think that is very cool. Irina Slutskaya did some wonderful step sequences where she stayed on the same foot for several seconds.

This one by Michelle is my favorite, though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYwAZb14Ags&t=2m29s

The IJS discourages skating like this, in favor of more busywork. You won't see either Boyang Jin or Nathan Chen doing that (including the little shimmy at tyhe end). :)
 
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I guess I don't know what one-footed and two-footed skating is. Even when we walk on land we go one foot, then the other foot, not both feet at the same time. In landing a jump it is considered a demerit even to graze the ice with the other skate, much never mind to come down plop in both feet

But if one-foot skating means doing a long sequence on the same foot, I think that is very cool. Irina Slutskaya did some wonderful step sequences where she stayed on the same foot for several seconds.

This one by Michelle is my favorite, though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYwAZb14Ags&t=2m29s

The IJS discourages skating like this, in favor of more busywork. You won't see either Boyang Jin or Nathan Chen doing that (including the little shimmy at tyhe end). :)

Patrick Chan did a fabulous one zipping speedily down the rink in Take Five. No bonus for this leg burner late in the program under COP.
 
I guess I don't know what one-footed and two-footed skating is. Even when we walk on land we go one foot, then the other foot, not both feet at the same time. In landing a jump it is considered a demerit even to graze the ice with the other skate, never mind to come down plop in both feet

But if one-foot skating means doing a long sequence on the same foot, I think that is very cool. Irina Slutskaya did some wonderful step sequences where she stayed on the same foot for several seconds.

This one by Michelle is my favorite, though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYwAZb14Ags&t=2m29s

The IJS discourages skating like this, in favor of more busywork. You won't see either Boyang Jin or Nathan Chen doing that (including the little shimmy at tyhe end). :)

A good section of Kostner's step sequence in her first "Prelude" free skate was also done on one foot.
 
This :agree: I don't want to be bitter but I clearly remember how people were hyped over Nathan last year and were writing Yuzuru off but we all know what happened at the end. One skating event simply does not imply the results of the next one :confused2:

Exactly. Yuzu closed the gap in 2013-14 and sealed the deal in Sochi, even with a botched skate that had two falls. Chan was skating as if he were being held at gunpoint that night (sadly). And a season is long, exhausting and emotionally draining, we all saw my girl Anna P. post great results all season long, and then completely melt down at worlds. :'( Buuuuut we also saw Adelina in 2013-14 look absolutely terrible at the GPF, miss the team event, and then take the ultimate prize.
 
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