Madison Hubbell & Zachary Donohue | Page 15 | Golden Skate

Madison Hubbell & Zachary Donohue

It was a choreography violation. I'm sure it will be fixed from here on out. :)

No it wasn't. One judge dinged them on choreo, but you need 6 to get a deduction for that. It was a time violation. When I timed it, I got 1-2 seconds over. But regardless, I agree they'll fix it for next time.
 
No it wasn't. One judge dinged them on choreo, but you need 6 to get a deduction for that. It was a time violation. When I timed it, I got 1-2 seconds over. But regardless, I agree they'll fix it for next time.

Then go look at this...it says it right there along with the time vio
http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1718/gpcan2017/gpcan2017_IceDance_SD_Scores.pdf

Per the protocol, SnowWhite is correct.

What the protocol shows is that the deduction of -1.00 was for the time violation.

H/D did *not* get any point deduction for "Violation of choreography restriction."
The protocol says that only 1 out of the group of 10 (referee + judges) voted for "Violation of choreography restriction."
There is no point deduction unless a majority of the group votes for the violation.
As SnowWhite said, 6 votes would have been necessary for a point deduction. But there was only 1 vote.
 
Per the protocol, SnowWhite is correct.

What the protocol shows is that the deduction of -1.00 was for the time violation.

H/D did *not* get any point deduction for "Violation of choreography restriction."
The protocol says that only 1 out of the group of 10 (referee + judges) voted for "Violation of choreography restriction."
There is no point deduction unless a majority of the group votes for the violation.
As SnowWhite said, 6 votes would have been necessary for a point deduction. But there was only 1 vote.


You and SnowWhite are correct. Had H/D gotten a violation of choreography deduction call from 6 of the 10 judges + referee, then H/D would've had a 2.0 point deduction.
 
:noshake:
YMMV.

(1) Per the ISU's own recap of the Skate Canada International SD (emphasis added):

Hubbell/Donohue, who skated last out of the ten couples, had the same levels for their elements as Weaver/Poje, but lost one point for a time violation.

http://isu.org/inside-single-pair-s...-short-dance-at-skate-canada?templateParam=15

(2) Pre-existing ISU documentation explains very clearly how "Violation of choreography restriction" works.

The page on the ISU website for "Handbooks Ice Dance" has a link to a chart titled, Deductions: Who is responsible: Short Dance and Free Dance.

Item #9 on the chart is "Violation of choreography restriction" -- for which "Referee + Judges*" are responsible.
I have highlighted the asterisk in red, because here is what the footnote corresponding to the asterisk says (emphasis added).

* Referee + Judges: the deduction is applied according to the opinion of the majority of the Panel which includes all the Judges and the Referee and no deduction in case of a 50:50 split vote. The Judges and Referee will press a button on their screen to apply the concerned deduction.
 
Wow it's nice to see that you can read the same thing that anyone else can look up. Or you know, just know from experience, but you do you.

I'm confused by your reaction. Ice coverage was merely being helpful in explaining what deduction H/D actually received and how to read the protocol sheet. Ice coverage already knew how to read the sheet and only provided that post to explain it further to help you out.
 
They were phenomenal out there tonight. Words just fail me! And I was so happy to see them so happy! :love:
 
I really really hope they achieve their goals this season and be recognized by international and US judges. They are the most exciting team to watch currently.
 
Eurosport guy in sd after announcing score: "Meh ,it was close to 80, they should be 2 " :biggrin:
 
I love the British Eurosport videos the most because they're such big fans of Madison and Zachary.

They were amazing at SC, it's a shame they didn't get silver. :mad:

Here's a lovely photograph from the SD: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bax5EhNhZRo/?taken-by=sergeibelski Madison's new dress really looks gorgeous!

I think that the placements are important, but myself I'd rather think more about scores they received and how amaingly they performed this weekend and put this into further perspective.

They have one of the best materials this season, which actually reflect on their very strenghts as a skaters and performers. I think that the best thing to admire is how their style as a team and character is highlighted in both programs. Also - the packaging is incredible smart about making them as 'universally apealing/accessible' as possible, because those programs have really strong impact and potential to create a moment/stunning effect visually and feelings-wise.

Both programs from my perspective tell a lot not only about them as skaters, but also what performers they are: passionate, sensual, sophisticated and elegant. I love how the stress is put on showing their lines, edges, overall quality of their skating skills as ingredients of their way of expression, how the actual routine 'speaks' without OTT/flashy-ness in it. There is a conscious maturity in their performance this year, way more control over the balance between execution and emotion given out, which makes them exciting and so refined to watch. With their FD, what I noticed after its performance was how great the design of the routine is: it 'frames' the picture and gives it the base to look at, but they seem to create the substance, the story right along with the performance, there is no feel of focefulness and scripted story - they just make it on their own by the dialogue of their bodies, gestures and connection. I love the sleek outlook of the whole dance, this sensuality in movement and the privacy, intricacy of the whole picture. There is something mysterious and mesmerizing for me in that theme alone, the whole into sequence with raining effect, the combined with Beth Hart's voice adds some edge, grit and rawness into this polished look.

ETA - to put more perspective into my thoughts above, I thought I'd paste my intial feelings about SD and FD (taken from SC threads) if anyone's interested:

I know it's vain from me, but boy – Madison never looked better in my book, her body is SMOKING hot and that dress was amazing on her, she totally served that hot Latina look, sleek hair et all like hot cakes! For me, this is one of the best SDs this season in terms of concept and matching to the team's attitude and skills – it focuses on them both, how they interact together, how flowy their dancing became, what music they are feeling the best. I love its composition, the way it builds, the middle rhumba part is such a pleasure to watch: there is that natural ease in their movement, how they work in holds, continuation of lines and the lift at the end. I love also non-touch step sequence, how the focus there is put on drum bounce beat action, so well reflected by their movement, some of isolations and edge control were amazing today, the overall design of that first part is just very attractive and gives such nice, sophisticated outlook to the whole dance for me. I do think that the last sequence of music need a little more control from Madison in particular, more finishing of hands and crisper connection between them, but that final spin tho – so Salsa club vibe, me gusta:love:. And what I love that it is polished and looked choreographed for this particular convention chosen, but feels organic and natural from them.

and vice versa for me - they kind of surpassed the 'category' of music/program working for them for me; now, it's more like customizing each program, musical theme to them personally, to highlight THEM in front of all other elements of the dance. Their progress and character/identity development is stunning and so inspiring to see. This a mature performance of woman and man, they have their parts, characters to give out, but I feel that there is no clear, strict script for them written - it's more about flow of the dialogue of the moment, composing those lines by movements, gestures, expression. I, for instance, got really lost in the conversation there so beautifully made, the technical specifics, mechanics were far gone from my focus. And it's really difficult to focus audience's attention onto this 'difficult-to-catch/describe' part of the performance and to make it pop ahead of sole execution. For me, there's a right amount of everything there: elegance, sophistication, edgy vibe, sensuality - every emotion/impression done so in harmony with the choreography and the music, never OTT. AS much as I love WeaPo and was impressed by them, MAdison and Zach deserved silver in my book.
 
I think that the placements are important, but myself I'd rather think more about scores they received and how amaingly they performed this weekend and put this into further perspective.

They have one of the best materials this season, which actually reflect on their very strenghts as a skaters and performers. I think that the best thing to admire is how their style as a team and character is highlighted in both programs. Also - the packaging is incredible smart about making them as 'universally apealing/accessible' as possible, because those programs have really strong impact and potential to create a moment/stunning effect visually and feelings-wise.

Both programs from my perspective tell a lot not only about them as skaters, but also what performers they are: passionate, sensual, sophisticated and elegant. I love how the stress is put on showing their lines, edges, overall quality of their skating skills as ingredients of their way of expression, how the actual routine 'speaks' without OTT/flashy-ness in it. There is a conscious maturity in their performance this year, way more control over the balance between execution and emotion given out, which makes them exciting and so refined to watch. With their FD, what I noticed after its performance was how great the design of the routine is: it 'frames' the picture and gives it the base to look at, but they seem to create the substance, the story right along with the performance, there is no feel of focefulness and scripted story - they just make it on their own by the dialogue of their bodies, gestures and connection. I love the sleek outlook of the whole dance, this sensuality in movement and the privacy, intricacy of the whole picture. There is something mysterious and mesmerizing for me in that theme alone, the whole into sequence with raining effect, the combined with Beth Hart's voice adds some edge, grit and rawness into this polished look.

ETA - to put more perspective into my thoughts above, I thought I'd paste my intial feelings about SD and FD (taken from SC threads) if anyone's interested:

I love and agree with your reading of their FD (and SD). With the camera angle at Salt Lake earlier I couldn't get a real feel and thought it would be a little light and put them at a disadvantage, like an extended short dance. But now I can appreciate it much more. In conception and construction their programs really are in the top 3 in the world, if not the best. I just hope the judges would be able to truly open their eyes and heart to it and not get bogged down by reputation judging.
 
They were on my flight this morning! :luv17: Had a chance to congratulate Maddie and told her their programs and costumes are really great. Said I'll really look forward to seeing them at Nationals. I have such high hopes for them! :points:
 
I had criticized a lot about their programs last season, but during the off season what happened to them? Their music choices and packages are superb! :love: They had everything except consistency and package last season, but they brought up great programs which make me want to root the team the most this season (granted, I have a lot of favorites in dance though :)) I really hope they advance to GPF and upset at Nationals. Go Madi and Zach! :hap10:
 
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