2017-18 State of U.S. Men's Figure Skating

[TontoK]

I *believe* that Alex K. already had senior minimums from the Philly (Liberty) comp, which was a senior international comp.:agree:

That said, I'm glad he did so well at a Senior B. Alex K. is my guilty pleasure. He can't spin, he digs into the ice like a hockey player, and throws himself into jumps like a tight end. And I still love me some Alex K. He could surprise at Nats, for sure, but as Mrs. P so astutely pointed out earlier, he is not a US citizen, so he won't be on the Oly team.

Ah. I either did not know that, or perhaps I had forgotten. I don't keep up with juniors too much. But he has caught my eye. And, of course, Torgeshev.

Still, I believe he would, at least theoretically, be eligible for the World team. Provided, of course, he skates well enough to merit selection.

I just scooted over to his competition. He didn't score THAT much lower than Aliev, which caught me by surprise.

 

[andromache]

This is probably around somewhere, but what has to happen for Jason to make GPF? Voronov has shown surprisingly impressive consistency but Boyang has not, so if Boyang falters in the LP, could Jason make GPF? I'm not really rooting for one outcome over another (though I guess I would prefer to see Boyang at GPF, considering his general Olympic medal competitiveness in comparison), but I am curious. The men's GP field has been crazy.

Nathan is a revelation. I didn't want to be a fangirl, but I am. His musicality is almost unmatched, and is 100% more unmatched than anyone else here.

BTW: I have read many mixed feelings on Adam's SP. I narrated this entire event aloud to the husband, and I informed him that Adam's strength is the "artsy" LP, as opposed to the "dancey and hip" SP (in my opinion), but my husband was wayyyyy more impressed by the SP than me. So he does make a great impression on general viewers.

 

[TontoK]

This is probably around somewhere, but what has to happen for Jason to make GPF? Voronov has shown surprisingly impressive consistency but Boyang has not, so if Boyang falters in the LP, could Jason make GPF? I'm not really rooting for one outcome over another (though I guess I would prefer to see Boyang at GPF, considering his general Olympic medal competitiveness in comparison), but I am curious. The men's GP field has been crazy.

Nathan is a revelation. I didn't want to be a fangirl, but I am. His musicality is almost unmatched, and is 100% more unmatched than anyone else here.

BTW: I have read many mixed feelings on Adam's SP. I narrated this entire event aloud to the husband, and I informed him that Adam's strength is the "artsy" LP, as opposed to the "dancey and hip" SP (in my opinion), but my husband was wayyyyy more impressed by the SP than me. So he does make a great impression on general viewers.

My understanding is that, assuming the first three places remain the same, that Boyang would have to finish in 4th and beat Jason on a score tie-breaker.

If he finishes third or better, he's in and Jason is out, provided that Adam medals and Voronov and Chen finish no worse than 5th.

 

[TontoK]

This is probably around somewhere, but what has to happen for Jason to make GPF? Voronov has shown surprisingly impressive consistency but Boyang has not, so if Boyang falters in the LP, could Jason make GPF? I'm not really rooting for one outcome over another (though I guess I would prefer to see Boyang at GPF, considering his general Olympic medal competitiveness in comparison), but I am curious. The men's GP field has been crazy.

Nathan is a revelation. I didn't want to be a fangirl, but I am. His musicality is almost unmatched, and is 100% more unmatched than anyone else here.

BTW: I have read many mixed feelings on Adam's SP. I narrated this entire event aloud to the husband, and I informed him that Adam's strength is the "artsy" LP, as opposed to the "dancey and hip" SP (in my opinion), but my husband was wayyyyy more impressed by the SP than me. So he does make a great impression on general viewers.

Also: i agree with you on Adam's SP. I don't like it, but there is no denying that Adam skated it proficiently and with confidence.

I can recognize he did well, and still acknowledge it's not my cup of tea.

 

[Mrs. P]

I do not view this simply as a side-note.

If Alexei competes as a senior at US Nationals, he will already have earned technical minimums in an ISU Senior event.

This will eliminate the possibility of his missing an Olympic/World team on the basis on NOT having technical minimums... we all remember the Vincent Zhou situation last season.

For the record, I've long put him as a dark horse for a 4CC spot (and said so publicly). I meant a side-note to the main event everyone is paying attention, which is Skate America. Alexei's achievement is still worth praising, which is why I mentioned it in the first place.

Alexei's junior scores are solid -- in the 220 -- but considering the top U.S. men, foibles and all are at worst, scoring 240 and have scored upwards of 260+ on great days, Alexei has a big gap. But as I said, he's in the perfect darkhorse position.

This is probably around somewhere, but what has to happen for Jason to make GPF? Voronov has shown surprisingly impressive consistency but Boyang has not, so if Boyang falters in the LP, could Jason make GPF? I'm not really rooting for one outcome over another (though I guess I would prefer to see Boyang at GPF, considering his general Olympic medal competitiveness in comparison), but I am curious. The men's GP field has been crazy.

Nathan is a revelation. I didn't want to be a fangirl, but I am. His musicality is almost unmatched, and is 100% more unmatched than anyone else here.

BTW: I have read many mixed feelings on Adam's SP. I narrated this entire event aloud to the husband, and I informed him that Adam's strength is the "artsy" LP, as opposed to the "dancey and hip" SP (in my opinion), but my husband was wayyyyy more impressed by the SP than me. So he does make a great impression on general viewers.

RE: GPF, what Tonto said. To be precise, he will need to rise to the podium and/or score 164+ in the FS if he rises up to 4th to beat Jason's score and win the tie-breaker. He did score 170 at COC and he scored 165+ at Finlandia. So under normal circumstances it's a score he can obtain. But given his injury and the fact there's less than 24 hours until the FS....I'm not sure. I'm OK with either result happing since I like both skaters. As I said in the men's thread, it's a bit of a Sophie's choice.

I will say that even if 4 or the big 6 isn't there, I still think GPF will be compelling with a Shoma v. Nathan battle; Adam v. Jason battle and Sergei and Mikhail battle. I guess we'll see what happens tomorrow. It's also a good opportunity to see whether there is anyone that can sneak into the "big 6." Misha's scores in the SP have been along the lines of the top guys, for example. Anyway, it won't be long before we find out who ends up going to Nagoya.

RE: Adam, I agree with Tonto and noted as much in the men's thread. His performance ability and confidence is definitely there and he sold the program. He sells the birds program well too. He's like Ashley Wagner in that way -- doesn't necessarily have the best skating skills or transitions -- but judges reward them for compelling performances.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

So with Adam making the GPF and having earned 2 GP silvers this season, would a 4th place finish at Nationals still get him on the Olympic team (assuming he wouldn't be bumping Nathan)?

 

[Mrs. P]

So with Adam making the GPF and having earned 2 GP silvers this season, would a 4th place finish at Nationals still get him on the Olympic team (assuming he wouldn't be bumping Nathan)?

Depends on who is in 3rd, I think.

 

[karne]

So with Adam making the GPF and having earned 2 GP silvers this season, would a 4th place finish at Nationals still get him on the Olympic team (assuming he wouldn't be bumping Nathan)?

Depends on who is in 3rd, I think.

If 3rd is Jason or Vincent, probably not.

If 3rd is Max, the USFS will be rolling out the red carpet.

 

[NAOTMAA]

I agree in principle. I would just say (besides the fact that Vincent's 17) that family and community cultures differ in this respect. I'm not even talking about ethnicity ... just moving 1,000 miles across the USA was enough for me to feel like I'm in a slightly different culture.

In some subcultures, a sincerely felt apology means something positive; it's simply acknowledging of a mistake/failure and a statement of intention to do better or make amends. In other subcultures, it is seen as (1) a sign of weakness or lack of pride, (2) cheesy; or (3) a bid for sympathy. Other families/subcultures simply see it as meaningless, because whatever one is apologizing for is done and has consequences; saying "I'm sorry" won't change anything.

This is tangential and not a direct comparison: I'm thinking of how in Yuzuru's official statements, he always says he's sorry for the worry he puts people through and thanks them for their concern. I'm also thinking of what he said earlier this year, that he gains strength through what other people perceive as pressure from Japanese fans. It's a positive thing for him. Just my two cents.

Well its nothing new when it comes to Japanese skaters. Midori Ito famously apologized to the whole country for not winning gold in Albertville. Not winning haunted her for a long time because she really felt like she let the country down

If 3rd is Jason or Vincent, probably not.

If 3rd is Max, the USFS will be rolling out the red carpet.

Unfortunately this doesn't even need to be debated. THIS right here.

poor Max

 

[Tahuu]

So with Adam making the GPF and having earned 2 GP silvers this season, would a 4th place finish at Nationals still get him on the Olympic team (assuming he wouldn't be bumping Nathan)?

Adam not only makes the final but also has an elevating score trend, from 249.88 to 261.99 to 266.45, this season. That counts as well when they pick the team. I am glad Max and Vincent still have a shot as Jason hasn't run away by making the final.

 

[mrrice]

If 3rd is Max, the USFS will be rolling out the red carpet.[/QUOTE]

If Max is 3rd, I would consider it a criminal offense not to send him. His jumps are necessary in this jump rewarding ERA. Nathan, though he was not great today, still leads the pack. Max has a lot riding on his next event. If he can win, or at least stand on the podium as the top American at his next event. He should, IMO, Eliminate Vincent and Jason should there be a tight finish at Nationals. It's clear that the Judges love Adam and if his shoulder is OK, I would send him and years of experience, programs, and excellent coaching to the games.

 

[TontoK]

If 3rd is Max, the USFS will be rolling out the red carpet.[/QUOTE]

If Max is 3rd, I would consider it a criminal offense not to send him. His jumps are necessary in this jump rewarding ERA. Nathan, though he was not great today, still leads the pack. Max has a lot riding on his next event. If he can win, or at least stand on the podium as the top American at his next event. He should, IMO, Eliminate Vincent and Jason should there be a tight finish at Nationals. It's clear that the Judges love Adam and if his shoulder is OK, I would send him and years of experience, programs, and excellent coaching to the games.

Does Max even have another event before USNats? Is he in some ISU B, and I've missed it?

My predictions for the Olympic team are the same as they were at the beginning of the season. Nathan, Vincent, and Max. But, I've gotta admit - I'm saying with a lot less swagger than I was. Adam just isn't my favorite kind of skater stylistically, but he has done extremely well this season.

 

[NAOTMAA]

I think the Olympic team is Nathan, Adam and Jason

Nathan is a no brainer, Adam has been on fire this season, and the USFSA loves Jason

they have never been fond of Max and Vincent is too inconsistent

 

[mrrice]

Does Max even have another event before USNats? Is he in some ISU B, and I've missed it?

My predictions for the Olympic team are the same as they were at the beginning of the season. Nathan, Vincent, and Max. But, I've gotta admit - I'm saying with a lot less swagger than I was. Adam just isn't my favorite kind of skater stylistically, but he has done extremely well this season.

Yes, he will be skating in France.

 

[Mrs. P]

Yes, he will be skating in France.

That competition happened last week...

 

[Seren]

Does Max even have another event before USNats? Is he in some ISU B, and I've missed it?

My predictions for the Olympic team are the same as they were at the beginning of the season. Nathan, Vincent, and Max. But, I've gotta admit - I'm saying with a lot less swagger than I was. Adam just isn't my favorite kind of skater stylistically, but he has done extremely well this season.

I'm not saying that this is a good thing or fair- but if it's close I think USFS would send Adam or Jason over Max. I'm not saying it's fair. But I think the only way Max goes is to end up first or second at nationals (and the chance she of first are pretty much none). If he's 3rd and the other 2-3 bomb he's probably safe, but I don't think being 3rd at nationals will be enough for Max (if the scores are close). If Max places above Vincent he would probably be safe because Vincent just doesn't have the scores to use the body of work argument. I like Max, and I feel bad for him. But I wouldn't bet money on him for that reason. He just doesn't get the support from the federation and he lacks consistency. (I like Max, he has some great qualities, but consistency is not one of them).

I also think it's unlikely that Vincent and Max would beat both Adam and Jason. Especially if Adam keeps skating like he has been and Jason gets back in form. But ice is slippery, stranger things have happened.

Basically this is going to suck.

 

[Mrs. P]

I'm not saying that this is a good thing or fair- but if it's close I think USFS would send Adam or Jason over Max. I'm not saying it's fair. But I think the only way Max goes is to end up first or second at nationals (and the chance she of first are pretty much none). If he's 3rd and the other 2-3 bomb he's probably safe, but I don't think being 3rd at nationals will be enough for Max (if the scores are close). If Max places above Vincent he would probably be safe because Vincent just doesn't have the scores to use the body of work argument. I like Max, and I feel bad for him. But I wouldn't bet money on him for that reason. He just doesn't get the support from the federation and he lacks consistency. (I like Max, he has some great qualities, but consistency is not one of them).

I also think it's unlikely that Vincent and Max would beat both Adam and Jason. Especially if Adam keeps skating like he has been and Jason gets back in form. But ice is slippery, stranger things have happened.

Basically this is going to suck.

It's going to be a lot of !

So I have a whole analysis thing to write, but it's late here, so stay tuned (or skip it if I bore you. )

 

[Blades of Passion]

It would be good and fair for Adam + Jason to get sent over Max + Vincent, they've shown better skating quality for many years now and their peak performances in every season of this Olympic cycle have been better. Even in the 15-16 season where Jason got injured, he came back at the Team Challenge Cup and skated better than Max had the whole season, and that was Max's best season of this whole Olympic cycle!

Max or Vincent only deserve to go to the Olympics if they finish 2nd at Nationals, they've chosen the dark path of Tom Zakrajsek and now they have to live with it. There's only room for 1 of them, everyone knows the dark side only allows for 1 apprentice at a time, and hopefully the forces of good prevail anyway, with either Jason or Adam skating to 2nd place at Nationals and blocking any hope of the darkness being allowed to claim a holy Olympic spot.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

Adam Rippon: “...You can throw bricks at me, I’m (here to stay).” He was talking about the US selection committee. The way he said it makes me think the USFSA is doing what they can to keep Adam off the Team. Are they really that vocal in their opinion that Adam is washed up and they don’t want him at the Olympics??

 

[Tavi...]

Adam Rippon: “...You can throw bricks at me, I’m (here to stay).” He was talking about the US selection committee. The way he said it makes me think the USFSA is doing what they can to keep Adam off the Team. Are they really that vocal in their opinion that Adam is washed up and they don’t want him at the Olympics??

I listened to his interview and didn’t get that impression at all.

He was injured last season. Vincent and Jason had strong showings at JWC and Worlds, respectively. He trains with someone who’s not only a shoo-in for the team but is being touted as an Olympic gold medal contender. I’d guess that coming back from injury, he felt like he had to force his way back into the conversation. To his credit, he’s done just that.

Given that Jason, Max, and Vincent all underperformed at their second GPs, the fact that Adam did so well makes his position quite strong at the moment, I would think.