2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[Seren]

I feel like USFS has basically been waiting for the second coming of Michelle Kwan rather than working on building a strong base of skaters.

I think some of the rule changes they've made in recent years are a step in the right direction (bonuses for triples and double axels at lower levels and decreasing the penalty for falls to encourage skaters to Put these elements in programs sooner). I think we'll have stronger skaters several years down the line.

 

[Mrs. P]

I also think sending younger skaters to competition sooner than later is also an encouraging right step as well. Hanna Harrell got a junior B competition and a JGP and watching her at sectionals it's clear she truly learned from the experience.

Also, I think another issue is that the rest of the world has improved leaps and bounds while we haven't. While the streak of US Olympic medalists is noteworthy, I think it's important to note that competition from other countries were just not that strong. I think USFSA took that for granted and really didn't do much as they should have to maintain excellence.

 

[bobbob]

The thing is, we don't really have a sort of regimented, disciplined crop of skaters like Russia. Skaters are really all on their own, without any support from USFSA. We need to have intensive training programs for skaters starting from a young age where their all train together to get that sense of camaraderie and competitive spirit. It may be difficult and costly to implement, though, countries like Russia definitely have more resources dedicated to this.

 

[schizoanalyst]

I think the US just has a small pool now since the sport both isn't that popular anymore and there is no state-funded support. Funding has especially dried up with little television revenue anymore for USF and there isn't revenue in shows for skaters anymore. With figure skating being less popular than ever and few resources for both outreach (to recruit) and training to support skaters from poorer families - I think the US is drawing from a thin herd. That worked for awhile but we can no longer keep up with the talent pool of Russia and Japan.

 

[andromache]

Real question: why does there seem to be a pretty decent level of depth among American men (look at the juniors!), but the women are struggling? Is it because men are much later bloomers than the ladies, in general, and there's just a major dearth of people willing to put their 10 year old daughters on an elite-level training regimen?

 

[brightphoton]

Is it because there's just a major dearth of people willing to put their 10 year old daughters on an elite-level training regimen?

Most likely this one.

 

[klutzy]

But there are even fewer skaters going into ice dancing and we have a wealth of talent in that area--three teams who will probably make the Grand Prix final and a bevy of younger teams behind them.

I think there's something to the theory that the skating fed has been waiting for another Michelle Kwan instead of developing skaters as a group.
I think the only discipline parents really avoid is pairs, which is truly dangerous. It's not an accident that pairs sare older.

 

[sinnerspinner]

The thing is, we don't really have a sort of regimented, disciplined crop of skaters like Russia. Skaters are really all on their own, without any support from USFSA. We need to have intensive training programs for skaters starting from a young age where their all train together to get that sense of camaraderie and competitive spirit. It may be difficult and costly to implement, though, countries like Russia definitely have more resources dedicated to this.

I feel like USFS has basically been waiting for the second coming of Michelle Kwan rather than working on building a strong base of skaters.

I think some of the rule changes they've made in recent years are a step in the right direction (bonuses for triples and double axels at lower levels and decreasing the penalty for falls to encourage skaters to Put these elements in programs sooner). I think we'll have stronger skaters several years down the line.

Agreed, agreed, agreed. This is something Usfs would have to grab by the horns just like Russia has. USA has a big disadvantage right off the bat as many people in usa rarely if ever have access to ice rinks. There needs to be a more calculated approach, more ice rinks, a lot more financial support (coach fees, travel, medical bills), etc.

Some articles i've read made a good point, it's mostly too expensive. Many people would have to have two homes. The luckier ones shell out $800 or more a month for their child's training. Us figure skaters come are a small pool of a people from an already relatively small group of people.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

When is Team Karen going to work on getting the triple-triple all the way around?? She’s had that problem for years.

This was the first time I enjoyed Bradie’s skating, she was good. I hope she keeps it together in the fs.

All the shoulder shimmies in the world didn’t help Ashley’s sp score. I was legit shocked at her score; she’s on home turf, I thought she’d be “held up.”

 

[andromache]

But there are even fewer skaters going into ice dancing and we have a wealth of talent in that area--three teams who will probably make the Grand Prix final and a bevy of younger teams behind them.

I think there's something to the theory that the skating fed has been waiting for another Michelle Kwan instead of developing skaters as a group.
I think the only discipline parents really avoid is pairs, which is truly dangerous. It's not an accident that pairs sare older.

But what exactly has USFS been doing to develop the men?

US ice dance was a joke until Marina. Obviously there are plenty of teams with other coaches too, but somehow Marina started it all for the US. It seems to be a case where success has bred success.

 

[luckyguy]

At the moment is Bradie Tannell the most consistent US lady. She was already very good in Bergamo.

 

[Jammers]

Totally agree with Andromache. Karen has had problems with consistency and URs since she was a Junior. I think she had the skate of her life last year at Nats and I haven't seen much since then that convinces me she's turned the corner. Tonight's SP was just indicative of what she's always done. I don't think Tammy has done her any favors and I also don't think she should be doing her own choreography. It's juvenile and nothing special. I don't really expect her to medal at Nats this year.

On the other hand, Ashley is making me mad with her sexy shoulder rolls, etc. Just skate, dammit. That might be good for an exhibition but I was almost embarassed for her tonight. It was a very sloppy performance at best and the old adage about her loving being the underdog and coming from behind is just fluff. Maybe she might pull it out at Skate America but she definitely won't at the Olympics IF she makes it.

Both of these ladies need to have very strong SPs if they expect to compete successfully internationally.

Very disappointed in the US Ladies.

I agree the whole Ashley loves the underdog role is just nonsense and played out and if she does love having to come from behind even if she makes the Olympic team she will be lucky to make the top 10 because their is way to much depth now to get away with a doing crappy SP. This isn't 2012.

 

[Jammers]

But what exactly has USFS been doing to develop the men?

US ice dance was a joke until Marina. Obviously there are plenty of teams with other coaches too, but somehow Marina started it all for the US. It seems to be a case where success has bred success.

Actually Igor started the success for US Ice Dance more then anyone else.

 

[jFarrisFAN]

Bradie for Olympic team!!!
Along with Mirai And ashley!

 

[jFarrisFAN]

When is Team Karen going to work on getting the triple-triple all the way around?? She’s had that problem for years.

This was the first time I enjoyed Bradie’s skating, she was good. I hope she keeps it together in the fs.

All the shoulder shimmies in the world didn’t help Ashley’s sp score. I was legit shocked at her score; she’s on home turf, I thought she’d be “held up.”

Unfortunately there wasn't much to hold up :/
She had 2 obvious under rotations, bad jump quality even on the 2A. They did hold her up a bit with that 33.68 component score and have her the level 4 steps.

 

[andromache]

Unfortunately there wasn't much to hold up :/
She had 2 obvious under rotations, bad jump quality even on the 2A. They did hold her up a bit with that 33.68 component score and have her the level 4 steps.

Yeah. I loved this program two years ago, and it was one I was less annoyed about seeing repeated, but it is in much worse shape than it was two years ago. I don't doubt that Ashley is hungry and wants to be be national champion and be an Olympic medal threat, and she's fit as heck, but her weak basics have made it extremely difficult for her to have anything to rely on as she has gotten older. Someone like Carolina has always had strong skating skills and jump technique, and while she's obviously not in her prime anymore, those basics help her get the job done.

Can I blame John Nicks for this? Ashley stayed with Priscilla Hill for way too long, and then she moved to Nicks and totally flourished - but no real emphasis on skating skills. Sasha Cohen was another Nicks girl with very poor basics.

 

[concorde]

Real question: why does there seem to be a pretty decent level of depth among American men (look at the juniors!), but the women are struggling? Is it because men are much later bloomers than the ladies, in general, and there's just a major dearth of people willing to put their 10 year old daughters on an elite-level training regimen?

There are fewer men and,the ones that complete are very serious. So the man know that they must skate clean to win at most competition when there are other competitors.

With the top ladies, they can make mistakes during the summer competitions since their competitions do not have the high level tricks. As a result, they unconsciously realize it is ok the make mistakes since they still win. Only at Regionals do they need to be clean but by then the pattern can be set.

 

[Chemistry66]

So I didn't see this posted even after searching...

Tallinn Trophy results page

Caroline Zhang moved up from 6th in the SP to 4th overall at Tallinn Trophy CS event with a 170.82, less than a point from a bronze!
- She had a 56.35 in the SP for 6th. Jumps were 3F, 3Lo<+3Lo<, and 2A. Spins were L4/L4/L3 and steps were L2.
- Her FS was 3rd with a 114.47. Jumps were 3F+2T, 3Lze, 3T, 3Lo+3Lo<, 3F+2T+2Lo, 2A, and 2A. Again, spins were L4/L4/L3 and steps were L2.

Angela Wang unfortunately struggled in the FS, moving from 3rd after the SP down to 5th overall, with a total of 160.04.
- SP score was 62.50, which was 3rd. Jumps were 3F-2T, 2A, 3Lo. Spins were all L4, steps were L3.
- FS score was 97.54, which was 11th . Jumps were 3F, 3Lz, 1Lo, 3Lo+2A+SEQ, 3F<+REP, 2S, and 2A. Unfortunately she fell on both 3F. Spins were all L4 and steps were L3.

 

[skatefan17]

I don't really feel like retyping what I wrote in the ladies SP thread but the point is.

1. None of know anything about how Karen's team made the decisions they made. All we have is gossip and speculation.

2. Tammy Gambill is a really good coach. I met her and got to watch her work with my clubs skaters. She was very knowledagle and competent.

3. It's fine to say someone needs change, etc. But not to throw someone under the bus when you don't know anything about how they really are.

If Karen is making all these decisions alone and ignoring advice, we cannot blame Tammy for that. It's a tough call, but forcing Karen into any decision regarding her artistic expression and pressuring her more is a no go. Look what it did to Gracie Gold (who faced different circumstances, but the same theory of steamrolling a skater's vision for a more packaged one doesn't necessarily work when the skater is strong-willed.)

 

[skatefan17]

Aesthetically, Bradie reminds me of Gracie Gold a lot. Jumping-wise, she seems like a Sarah Hughes, and in regards to her spins....well those need work to me. She deserves to go to the Olympics with her consistency. Screw "body of work" when no US lady makes that argument this year.