- Joined
- Jan 9, 2017
All I'm going to say at this point was if you assume that the WD had anything to do with Bradie, then you really don't know anything about Ashley.
2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating
- Thread starter R.D.
- Start date
All I'm going to say at this point was if you assume that the WD had anything to do with Bradie, then you really don't know anything about Ashley.
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2016
Being position to win gold and take the final vs. not making the final....? You don't think that affected the decision, especially with an injury? Pushing through to make the final and pushing through to go home are two very different situations
I don't blame her at all, frankly. Keep doing those commercials! Make some money! Skating has been her entire life, so there isn't a backup plan now; when you're 26 there is no "I'll win a gold medal and then go to Yale" ala Sarah Hughes. Last year was the year I think her body had left in her, and now it's time for her to establish herself a little nest egg. I would be mad if I thought she was keeping more talented US skaters from going to the Olympics, but that just isn't the case this year. Gracie is doing her thing, Polina needs to go back to the sorority house, Karen can't seem to rotate a jump, and Mirai is skating jumping passes set to music. No American is going to end up on any sort of podium in 2018 so we might as well let Ashley make some money this year.
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2017
More like: Making the decision she did was either push through and get even more injured and be out all season. Or w/d right then and there and heal for Nationals and possibly Olympics which are way more important. YMMV.
ETA: Again, if you haven't been on the ice stage that Ashley is now, then sorry but you don't know the real split second decision she had to make.
Absent of a tape recording of Ashley's brain, I think it's hard to figure out exactly what happened.
Ashley is hardly the only injured person or person recovering from injury to try to skate in a competition. Hello, Boyang Jin. Or Evan Lysacek like a number of times. Jason Brown did U.S. Naitonals even though he just was cleared to skate after a stress fracture like 2 weeks earlier. Sometimes you take your chances and sometimes you succeed (i.e. Boyang making GPF, Jason getting a World spot) and sometimes you don't, like Ashley today or even Rachael Flatt at Worlds 2012 (who only didn't finish a dismal 12th place, but got fined for it).
Ashley is hardly the only injured person or person recovering from injury to try to skate in a competition. Hello, Boyang Jin. Or Evan Lysacek like a number of times. Jason Brown did U.S. Naitonals even though he just was cleared to skate after a stress fracture like 2 weeks earlier. Sometimes you take your chances and sometimes you succeed (i.e. Boyang making GPF, Jason getting a World spot) and sometimes you don't, like Ashley today or even Rachael Flatt at Worlds 2012 (who only didn't finish a dismal 12th place, but got fined for it).
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- Joined
- Apr 2, 2016
Again, I don't think there was a right or wrong, and I have said that I'd rather her WD then risk injury. I'm just saying, if her injury was so bad that she would've gotten so injured that she would be out all season, then she shouldn't have skated. I think her decision not to continue might have had something to do with her chances. As you said, getting injured and being out all season is not worth it especially when she wasn't making the final.
I'm agreeing with everything you are saying, I'm just being more critical because I think her poor training choices are going to come back and bite her.
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2017
Poor training choices?!?! Have you seen that girl train? She's a beast!
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2016
Doing a bunch of good run throughs in practice and having nice arms is great, but having poor jump and spin technique (although I'm sure the concussions don't help) and not improving (borderline regression) overall indicates that there is a training issue.
She actually looked fine in the first minute; the triple flip & double axels looked higher & stronger than in the SP and the double-toe in the combo looked planned & not a pop.
But watch her spin combo; there was an odd hesitation in the change of sit-spin positions & then she wobbled a bit and slowed down. I wonder if this spin caused boot pressure to push against the infection and really increase the level of pain. It was shortly after this that she WD. Perhaps she hadn't done this spin in the warmup & wasn't prepared for the pain.
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2017
Wow. I'll just agree to disagree and move on.
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2016
:thumbsup:
Being an older skater is a challenge. Kostner has beautiful skating skills--that means less having to muscle through things, less having to work on elements over and over and, overall, being less prone to injury. Wagner's never been a great technical skater--and now she's hit that point where she doesn't recover as quickly and has to train that much harder to keep up her stamina. I honestly think she's doing her best, but her deficiencies as a skater are catching up with her and it's getting harder to compensate.
I see no reason to beat up on her about it. In some sense, I think harshing on Ashley is more about the overall issues among U.S. Ladies--a lot is being demanded of 26-year-old skater who was never in the Michelle Kwan category.
At this point, I hope Bradie stays solid and adds some finesse. I hope Karen Chen gets her focus back and her jumps in order. I hope Mariah figures out how to skate her programs. I hope Mirai holds on to her triple axel, but starts to connect the rest of her program to her music. I hope Polina gets back her other jumps.
If those things happen, I won't worry about Ashley's ups and downs. She's had a good run--if she has a couple of more peaks, all the more power to her, but U.S. Ladies shouldn't depend on it.
I see no reason to beat up on her about it. In some sense, I think harshing on Ashley is more about the overall issues among U.S. Ladies--a lot is being demanded of 26-year-old skater who was never in the Michelle Kwan category.
At this point, I hope Bradie stays solid and adds some finesse. I hope Karen Chen gets her focus back and her jumps in order. I hope Mariah figures out how to skate her programs. I hope Mirai holds on to her triple axel, but starts to connect the rest of her program to her music. I hope Polina gets back her other jumps.
If those things happen, I won't worry about Ashley's ups and downs. She's had a good run--if she has a couple of more peaks, all the more power to her, but U.S. Ladies shouldn't depend on it.
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
You don't know why Ashley made the decision she did, why do you pretend like you do?
People have faked or exaggerated injuries many times before. Ashley is savvy enough to realize the damage that would be done if further mistakes were made in the program and she finished 6th place. Withdrawing removes the insistence of people pointing at a competition failure on paper, instead placing the focus on something that was "outside of her control", an injury. It also removes the failure from the mind's eye, the audience (including the judges) don't see her make the mistakes and place poorly in a competition.
No way of knowing if that's why Ashley withdrew or not, but it's a possibility. Personally it looked like she was acting to me. Interesting how her backstage dialogue changed from what she had been saying this season; until now she had been saying "my goal is to be an Olympic medalist" and now she's just saying "my goal is to make the Olympic team".
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2017
Why do you assume things in the first place?! I love how you put words in other peoples mouths here and then run around acting like the expert that you are not. If you only knew, but you don't and it's going to stay that way.
I don't think it makes much difference for Ashley's future endeavours whether she is a one time or two time Olympian without individual medal, so if she doesn't make the team she still has the World silver and what must be at least a few million dollars of earnings. Which is pretty good for 26 year old.
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
No no, assuming is what YOU did, in addition to acting like you have special information. You were adamant that you know Ashley better and that you know her decision was because she worried about getting injured if she completed her LP. No words were put in anyone's mouth by me, stop trying to use weak and incorrect straw-man arguments. You've shown no credibility to act superior either, you don't get to play the cop with an attempted defamation of my expertise.
Personally I don't care why she withdrew. I'm just examining all of the possibilities and explaining why someone would do such a thing. I also think it looked like she was acting, to me. Even if that was not the case, if I knew for sure she had a bad injury and saw it with my own eyes, her reaction still objectively appeared to me as a person acting. Sometimes that's just how things come off.
I also think it was a brilliant strategy to use the line "I've never withdrawn from a competition before", if it was indeed a strategy. How quickly and clearly she had this talking point ready, immediately after getting off the ice. What a perfect time to withdraw from a competition and use such a line, the last grand prix competition of your career, when you already did win a medal at a previous event (however weak that field may have been to win the medal). Making it on the Olympic team is of the utmost importance and superficial things like this will play into the minds of the judges at Nationals, a competition where Ashley must be aware she probably won't be given special treatment this time if she's off the podium, since she failed to make the GPF two seasons in a row and was not the top American lady at Nationals + Worlds last season.
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2004
I think this issue is not something that should be glossed over in a hurry. I didn't find the WD unfortunate. I found it extremely selfish.
Shades of Rachel Flatt. I hope A gets fined. She knew about the injury, knew it was bad enough to keep her off the ice, but didn't yield her spot on the team.
If this event was low on A's priority list because she's all about the Olympics, she should have withdrawn weeks ago, so another skater could have taken her spot.
If A thinks so little of the Skate America competition that it's not worth her while, she's being extremely disrespectful to the competitors who showed up and the others who really wanted the opportunity to compete there. To most competitors, this is a major competition and is taken seriously.
I can't believe someone would reduce Ashley's reaction to "not caring about this competition" just because she held out hope that she could skate for longer than people deem is seemly. Have you seen her post skate interview? She's in tears and clearly distraught that she had to withdraw. Geezus people.
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2017
I would rather WD than getting fined for skating with injuries IMO. I think Ashley was really hurt and it's her choice to think of her health first.
Evgenia -
“Withdraw from GP final!! It’s not worth aggravating your injury!”
“Why did she skate at the Gala?” “Because she didn’t want to let the fans dow-“ “NO SHE SHOULD HAVE SKIPPED IT! AND SKIPPED THE WHOLE COMPETITION!!!”
Ashley -
“Like, seriously, I KNOW that she’s injured and I KNOW that it’s important to preserve her body for OG’s/Nats and yeah she was in a tough spot having to decide whether to go for a GP final spot or try and, you know, prevent her body falling apart....but you know what? I really just think the best thing for any injured person to do it just push on through the pain, I mean nothing bad EVER comes from exacerbating injury, does it? Besides, she was probably faking...”
Anyone else noticed this??
“Withdraw from GP final!! It’s not worth aggravating your injury!”
“Why did she skate at the Gala?” “Because she didn’t want to let the fans dow-“ “NO SHE SHOULD HAVE SKIPPED IT! AND SKIPPED THE WHOLE COMPETITION!!!”
Ashley -
“Like, seriously, I KNOW that she’s injured and I KNOW that it’s important to preserve her body for OG’s/Nats and yeah she was in a tough spot having to decide whether to go for a GP final spot or try and, you know, prevent her body falling apart....but you know what? I really just think the best thing for any injured person to do it just push on through the pain, I mean nothing bad EVER comes from exacerbating injury, does it? Besides, she was probably faking...”
Anyone else noticed this??
