2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[Mrs. P]

^ Let me put it this way: I have been completely uninvested in U.S. Ladies this season. Mr. P even noticed it. "You haven't said anything about U.S. ladies in our conversations." Bradie has at least made me interested enough to bring her up in a future conversation.

 

[withwings]

...was not this her coach, Rafael Arutunian, RESPONSIBILITY not let her to skate at Skate America? Yes, he might be, as I have heard on this board, a good technician, but a gift to give a wise, grounded advice, to see " a whole picture" ( sorry my English vocabulary/expression is not good) to help, to guide imho is not given to him. He rather is one dimensional coach. Poor Ashley....everything was/is left only on her.
Infection as such affects the whole body, not only a part of the body; antibiotics makes weak. And is a time when someone else, from outside have to give a sound advice. I doubt she has enough time to recover before Nationals. Perhaps she may recover, but certainly not to train properly.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

...was not this her coach, Rafael Arutunian, RESPONSIBILITY not let her to skate at Skate America? Yes, he might be, as I have heard on this board, a good technician, but a gift to give a wise, grounded advice, to see " a whole picture" ( sorry my English vocabulary/expression is not good) to help, to guide imho is not given to him. He rather is one dimensional coach. Poor Ashley....everything was/is left only on her.
Infection as such affects the whole body, not only a part of the body; antibiotics makes weak. And is a time when someone else, from outside have to give a sound advice. I doubt she has enough time to recover before Nationals. Perhaps she may recover, but certainly not to train properly.

OMG now we're blaming Raf?!? Let it go people! This is getting crazy.

Raf is not one dimensional and I am sure they weighed everything along with Doctors input.

Move on already!

 

[stella luna]

OMG now we're blaming Raf?!? Let it go people! This is getting crazy.

Raf is not one dimensional and I am sure they weighed everything along with Doctors input.

Move on already!

The (ice) chips have fallen, and now we can only wait until Nationals to see what happens and who shows up, both literally and figuratively.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

To my untrained eye, she had okay speed and her programs didn't seem completely empty. There are steps into many of her jumping passes. Lots of crossovers too, but not as many as Ashley or Mirai (I'm not counting - just an impression). She never really seems labored. Plenty of adequate upper-body choreography so she never looks like she's just skating around for a warm-up.

She has a lot of good qualities. She's still probably trying to find her identity as a performer, but her programs are good enough to garner strong marks when she skates well. I really hope she stays confident and focused, because she has none of the technical deficiencies that plague our other skaters. She has also skated three good events this season (out of three tries), so no one has been more consistent, either.

 

[temadd]

What do y'all (who are more knowledgeable than me) think of Bradie's skating skills and transitions?

To my untrained eye, she had okay speed and her programs didn't seem completely empty. There are steps into many of her jumping passes. Lots of crossovers too, but not as many as Ashley or Mirai (I'm not counting - just an impression). She never really seems labored. Plenty of adequate upper-body choreography so she never looks like she's just skating around for a warm-up.

The quality of her programs and choreography are fixable in future seasons (if we are indeed counting on her to be the savior of US figure skating ). Skating skills and transitions ability are much more difficult to develop.

Her choreography/program is weak aesthetically and thematically (again, fixable), but she brings a level of performance and intensity that elevates it above mediocre.

I've never been excited about Bradie before and have had no problem saying so, because he international outings as a junior have been far from stellar. But okay....now I'm impressed. Now to avoid getting aboard the hype train.

She got level 4 on all her spins with some +2 & +3 GOE scores. She also had level 3 on her step sequence with some good GOE scores. This means she has very good basics. I would refer to her PCS scores but IMO those are so reputation based and not related to reality. What I think she needs is the intangible ooomph and wow factor.

 

[KwanfordWife]

Can't rule out the possibility. The precedent is there anyway...but a lot can still change. Plus, one competition does not make a skater.

Exactly! Bradie was lovely... but do it again. How many times do US Ladies' fans need to be reminded of this simple rule of skating before they leap off a cliff and declare a fresh face the "Future" before they have a chance to prove themselves? I've seen this for years and it continues to annoy me to no end. Give the girl time to develop and compete before anointing her America's Great Hope.

Having said that, good for her on delivering when it counted. I look forward to seeing her develop.

Ashley's a fighter; I have no doubt that if she could've gotten through that skate, she would have... looking forward to her speedy recovery and Nationals competition. I will say, however, that I am sick of her free skate. It's like Im living through Pocket Full of Stars all over again...

 

[fallingsk8er]

Seems like if you do well at a senior GP event, then you are automatically anointed as the next Michelle Kwan.

 

[frida80]

Seems like if you do well at a senior GP event, then you are automatically anointed as the next Michelle Kwan.

Junior events too. That’s what they were calling Emmy on YouTube for a while.

 

[KwanIsALegend]

It just shows you how hungry the USFSA is for a new star to rise.

 

[Mrs. P]

Um, other then us talking on here (and social media) -- is there documented examples of Bradie Tennell suddenly getting the "Great USFSA hope" treatment? On NBC, Johnny and Tara just said that she was now "in the conversation for an Olympic spot." She didn't seem to get differing treatment as a GP medalist on USFSA social media than Nathan or Adam got. There was a cute post about how "In True Cinderella Fashion" she got a medal, but that's it.

I certainly don't see Phil Hersh tweeting that Sam Auxlier thinks she should be going to the Olympics now.

I think there's a distinction between "general buzz" and "USFSA great white hope." As I said, if it seemed I'm talking tons about her, it's cause she caught my attention, but I certainly don't think she's the savior of U.S. Ladies figure skating or anything.

 

[SkaterX]

A lot of people say that Raf only cares about Nathan and blah blah but I think it's just that he only gets animated when it's a really awesome skate. I saw him get excited about Adam too. Lately Ashley tends to have pretty mediocre skates so it makes sense that he doesn't get super enthusiastic when she's skating.

 

[chuckm]

don't forget Mirai bronze at 4CC 2017 while Karen bombs there too. Also Senior B performance only Mirai (silver USC), Karen (bronze USC) and Courtney (bronze Warsaw) medal. But it was all quite low score (180s and 165 for Courtney). Bradie have high score in Lombardia which is quite inflated, but she didnt medal

4CC comes right on the heels of US Nationals, and usually involves major jet lag, and some of the top Nationals finishers opt out; so that comp isn't one of the major selection criteria for Worlds/Olympics. That Karen won the US Championship and went on to finish 4th at Worlds has far more significance than her placement at 4CC; Karen has also placed top 3 at Nationals twice in the last 3 years, and those are two major selectors.

Mirai's failure to medal at the GP since 2013 and her placing out of the top 3 at Nationals since 2014 don't help her cause. Should she place 3rd at Nationals 2018 and Ashley place 4th behind her, there could be a repeat of 2014 because Ashley HAS medaled in the GP in the past 3 years and has finished top 7 or better at Worlds over the same period, including a World silver medal.

B events don't count all that much, but:


Bradie Tennell won Philadelphia International in mid July with 184.98 points (120.06 in the FS). Angela Wang was second.

At US Intl in September, Mirai placed second behind Marin Honda, a senior newbie, by 15 points; Mirai scored only 119.73 in the FS for a total of 183.54.

At Lombardia, the same week as US Intl, Bradie finished 4th behind Zagitova, Higuchi and Kostner; she scored 132.36 in the FS for a total of 196.70. This event showed she could compete against top skaters with aplomb. It is no disgrace to her that she didn't medal, considering the competition.

 

[Mrs. P]

^ She also beat Kostner in the free skate FWIW.

 

[temadd]

Exactly! Bradie was lovely... but do it again. How many times do US Ladies' fans need to be reminded of this simple rule of skating before they leap off a cliff and declare a fresh face the "Future" before they have a chance to prove themselves? I've seen this for years and it continues to annoy me to no end. Give the girl time to develop and compete before anointing her America's Great Hope.

Having said that, good for her on delivering when it counted. I look forward to seeing her develop.

Ashley's a fighter; I have no doubt that if she could've gotten through that skate, she would have... looking forward to her speedy recovery and Nationals competition. I will say, however, that I am sick of her free skate. It's like Im living through Pocket Full of Stars all over again...

Bradie has been good all season not just at SA. I'm not saying we should go crazy about her but she showed consistency at 3 comps and skated the best at the most high profile one.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Exactly! Bradie was lovely... but do it again. How many times do US Ladies' fans need to be reminded of this simple rule of skating before they leap off a cliff and declare a fresh face the "Future" before they have a chance to prove themselves?

She's been skating well since the summer events; no one else has. If Ashley, Mirai, or Karen had been skating up to their potential, people might not be so excited about Bradie.

 

[Mrs. P]

She's been skating well since the summer events; no one else has. If Ashley, Mirai, or Karen had been skating up to their potential, people might not be so excited about Bradie.

Yep, I called it on Aug. 8: https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/s...kating&p=1757400&highlight=Bradie#post1757400



And oh, I'd forgotten that she medaled at a Challenge Series comp last year: https://data.tallinntrophy.eu/2016/Tallinn_Trophy/index.php
(She did a 3Z-3T and 2A-3Tx in the second half to go from 8th to 3rd). She has an uncanny ability to medal at her debut competitions.

 

[LiamForeman]

Maybe -- She has inherent grace but hasn't been to finishing school yet??? Regardless, she is very nice to watch on the ice. :luv17:

YES! Grace!!! She just needs to develop it because you can't acquire grace nor can you just pick it up at the store. LOL!

Seinfeld Elaine on a job interview discussing grace: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENgJZlmgI6U

 

[TontoK]

Seems like if you do well at a senior GP event, then you are automatically anointed as the next Michelle Kwan.

Well, I think it's way to early to call her the next Michelle Kwan, but when is the last time a US senior lady delivered her planned content across two programs in competent fashion?

Yes, there is room for improvement, but she stood up, she got her jumps around, and she displayed strong competitive nerve.

And in USA Ladies nowadays, that's cause for celebration. Because it has been a while since we've seen it.

 

[leafygreens]

Um, other then us talking on here (and social media) -- is there documented examples of Bradie Tennell suddenly getting the "Great USFSA hope" treatment?

It's not anointing Bradie "the next great hope" but anointing her "the only hope that we have for the Olympics in three months." I'm personally not looking any further beyond that.

I guess some people like "hoping" on the failing skaters, maybe? Think you have to skate average, sometimes poor ("fighting"), placing frequently 6th - 7th when it matters, getting an occasional GP medal, for over ten years to be "America's hope" and don't dare say anything good about anyone else or you will break them psychologically.

Bradie is the highest international performer this season. She took the chance and ran with it, which is more than some have done after being offered the moon. In fall selection events, Bradie has placed over 190 twice, Mirai has placed over 190 once. No one else has. Karen will have done seven selection events by Golden Spin. Mariah has done six selection events. They are clearly working their butts off and not just talking about it.

Ashley is an extremely poor bet since she has only successfully competed internationally once this season before the Olympic selection (with a score in the 180s), and her other two selection events were 8-10 months ago. She only has three events on her resume which is the lowest of all the favored ladies. This kind of reminds me of Sasha Cohen showing up after four years, hoping her Olympic medal will get her through. I for one do not want to bet on those odds.