2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[quadrupleaxel15]

It's not anointing Bradie "the next great hope" but anointing her "the only hope that we have for the Olympics in three months." I'm personally not looking any further beyond that.

I guess some people like "hoping" on the failing skaters, maybe? Think you have to skate average, sometimes poor ("fighting"), placing frequently 6th - 7th when it matters, getting an occasional GP medal, for over ten years to be "America's hope" and don't dare say anything good about anyone else or you will break them psychologically.

Bradie is the highest international performer this season. She took the chance and ran with it, which is more than some have done after being offered the moon. In fall selection events, Bradie has placed over 190 twice, Mirai has placed over 190 once. No one else has. Karen will have done seven selection events by Golden Spin. Mariah has done six selection events. They are clearly working their butts off and not just talking about it.

Ashley is an extremely poor bet since she has only successfully competed internationally once this season before the Olympic selection (with a score in the 180s), and her other two selection events were 8-10 months ago. She only has three events on her resume which is the lowest of all the favored ladies. This kind of reminds me of Sasha Cohen showing up after four years, hoping her Olympic medal will get her through. I for one do not want to bet on those odds.

You don't want Ashley at the Olympics that much is clear :agree2:

Would you still not send her if she gets the Bronze at Nats? Also, do you think we can trust a newcomer with only a year of experience? If Bradie fails technically she is done, but someone with high PCS like Ashley will get decent scores and sometimes even a lucky Bronze despite their technical mistakes.

 

[frida80]

It's unlikely at this point. Last pics she had of the Lutz was on the harness. If she's not comfortable doing then in a club comp, it may be several weeks before she's ready to even attempt them. Champ camp invites have to go out soon. So the decision has to be made as little as a week.

I think Bradie has this spot. It's because in the last two years they chose people with potential for the last spot. Mariah was chosen because of her performance in 2015 nationals. Angela was chosen because she medalled at the Challenger Series. Bradie medaled last season and she's scored pretty high over the summer. She'll probably get the invite.

Yep, I called it on Aug. 8: https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/s...kating&p=1757400&highlight=Bradie#post1757400



And oh, I'd forgotten that she medaled at a Challenge Series comp last year: https://data.tallinntrophy.eu/2016/Tallinn_Trophy/index.php
(She did a 3Z-3T and 2A-3Tx in the second half to go from 8th to 3rd). She has an uncanny ability to medal at her debut competitions.

I called it in July before Philly International. It feels good to be right all along, doesn’t it?

Back in the summer there was this huge controversy over who would get SA. Everyone had their favorites and were upset when Bradie got sent to Champs Camps over Courtney and Angela. But looking back it was obvious Bradie was getting better and better. When Sylvia posted her first summer score of 188 in MAY, I had to take a second look at her. Then three more wins, including Philly International, I knew her consistency was going to hold.

Last spring, people were upset that someone as old as her was going to JW. They honestly thought she wasn’t going anywhere and she should be passed over for someone like Tessa. She fought back. She worked through her injuries, her body changes, and found her consistency and a real drive to win. That alone makes me not only respect her but a real fan.

I was practically in tears when she hit her last 3S, know that she just finished yet another clean program. Now, my big fear that USFS is going to screw it up like they always do.

Evertime someone says that she needs polish, dance classes, packaging, better choreography it makes me a little nauseous. Do you know who said “They don’t give gold medals to little girls.” (Or something to that effect.) I can almost predict this and fills me with dread.

Yes. I think Bradie will be pushed to work with Frank Carroll.

There is no one better at repacking a skater to make them look more “graceful, elegant, mature, and sophisticated.” Between him and Lori Nichols, Bradie will be given a makeover and pushed to pull Ladies figure skating from the abyss.

Or maybe, Bradie has heard enough about FC to refuse him. To refuse to be packaged by someone else and chose to find her own coaches and her own style by herself. That would make me so happy. She has so much potential. Not just clean jumps and consistency, but her personality on ice is a breath of fresh air. I hope she determines her own destiny in her own Cinderella story. She doesn’t need a fairy godmother (father or federation.)

 

[Mrs. P]

Maybe she'll go the Jason Brown route and stick to her guns. It's certainly not easy to say no to USFS insistence on things, but it can and has be done. Jason Brown wouldn't have been in Sochi (or the GP that season, for that matter) if Kori hadn't turned down their insistence on going junior another season.

Also her parents can have a lot of say too. Jason's parents trusted Kori, hence refused to heed to pressure from others to move Jason from a "big name coach." One could argue if he would have gotten the quad sooner if he went with a big name coach, but nobody would dispute that he has his own performance style/personality. He also has a pretty steady head.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

You don't want Ashley at the Olympics that much is clear

Ashley not competing as much as the others is a fair criticism. She is working hard, but so are all the other Olympic hopefuls. Her Skate Canada form may be the best she's capable of, or not. We don't know because she only completed one international event this season. If Ashley doesn't medal at Nationals, I think she'd have to rely on her Skate Canada finish and her Skate America SP to get her on the team (which they shouldn't). This season internationally, she has not rotated one 3T, landed a lutz without an edge call, or attempted a 3S. She has rotated only 1 3Lo (out of 4 attempted). I like Ashley, but the USFSA can't reward her for accomplishments years ago when skaters like Bradie, Mirai, Mariah, Courtney, Karen, and others are out there competing in Senior Bs, trying to get comfortable with their programs and pushing themselves technically.

 

[ssffww]

I was never a Bradie fan from watching her skate on television. Seeing her live in both practices and performances at Skate America brought me a whole new perspective. She was lovely. She's very fair and tends to wash out on television, but not live. Sure, she's got room to grow, but her showing at Skate America was the best we've seen from an American lady this season. She's got extention, she points her toes, and has transitions and flow in and out of her jumps. If she skates at nationals like she skated here, she may be our best bet for the upcoming Olympics and Worlds.

I really like Karen Chen, but she looked terrified at Skate America, and Ashley's my girl, but I'm afraid her World Silver medal in 2016 may have been her peak. Mirai Nagasu is working her butt off to make the team, but she's still struggling with rotations. I would love to see her lay down two clean performances and make the team. I enjoy watching Mariah Bell, but I don't think I've ever seen her do two clean (or near clean) skates ever.

I wish them all the best. May the best three performances at nationals make the team.

 

[klutzy]

The thing that really strikes me about that list is just how poorly Karen Chen has done--our national champion is in sixth place among American Ladies? And it seems to be mostly a mental-game issue. She has the talent. She's not injured.

Bradie may have benefited from flying under the radar this long. Her technique looks solid and even if Disney princess isn't the most mature program, she may have the maturity to handle the pressure a bit better than I think Chen has.

 

[ssffww]

Ashley not competing as much as the others is a fair criticism. She is working hard, but so are all the other Olympic hopefuls. Her Skate Canada form may be the best she's capable of, or not. We don't know because she only completed one international event this season. If Ashley doesn't medal at Nationals, I think she'd have to rely on her Skate Canada finish and her Skate America SP to get her on the team (which they shouldn't). This season internationally, she has not rotated one 3T, landed a lutz without an edge call, or attempted a 3S. She has rotated only 1 3Lo (out of 4 attempted). I like Ashley, but the USFSA can't reward her for accomplishments years ago when skaters like Bradie, Mirai, Mariah, Courtney, Karen, and others are out there competing in Senior Bs, trying to get comfortable with their programs and pushing themselves technically.

In all fairness, though, Ashley hasn't competed much more any season in recent years. Seems with her it all depends on how she trains in the final few weeks. She is shown in the past she's capable of pulling it together, but will she this time is anyone's guess. She's certainly had a weak season thus far. At this point, I wouldn't send any of our ladies based upon "body of work" this time. I'd just see who makes the podium and wish them luck.

 

[Mrs. P]

The thing that really strikes me about that list is just how poorly Karen Chen has done--our national champion is in sixth place among American Ladies? And it seems to be mostly a mental-game issue. She has the talent. She's not injured.

Bradie may have benefited from flying under the radar this long. Her technique looks solid and even if Disney princess isn't the most mature program, she may have the maturity to handle the pressure a bit better than I think Chen has.

It may not be a bad idea to be a fly under the radar type...though at some point you do have to embrace your contender status and back it up with skills. I felt Gracie had the AMAZING skills, but never embraced her contender status and Ashley sorta embraced contender status but the skills didn't always match the talk (and it did seem she did her best with the underdog status).

If you look at Ice Dance, the Shibutanis HAVE embraced their status as USA No. 1. Their struggles at Worlds only made them hungrier to prove their detractors wrong. They SLAYED the very person who caused them to struggle at Worlds (Dostani, the tech caller at SkAm). Nathan's also embraced his No. 1 status quite nicely too.

It would be nice to have a lady like that.

 

[ask]

First time seeing Bradie on the big screen, I have to say she reminds me of the consistent Rachael Flatt but with better speed, better line, better transitions. Her transitions are similar to the Russian girls. For example, the classic forward spiral into the 3 turn into the loop. That is Polina Turskaya and a host of other Russian girls' move.

I think only Bradie and Mirai truly showed they are ready. Mirai with all her problems still scored 194+ on the international level this season. Ashley is unfortunately done. She doesn't have the TES to compete and her PCS are about 10 points too high compare to the top girls. I mean, 33+ in the SP for that skating skills and empty program? She should be under 30 in the SP for what she actually put out and under 60 in the LP.

The third spot is between Karen, Courtney, Mariah, and Start at this point.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

I called it in July before Philly International. It feels good to be right all along, doesn’t it?

Back in the summer there was this huge controversy over who would get SA. Everyone had their favorites and were upset when Bradie got sent to Champs Camps over Courtney and Angela. But looking back it was obvious Bradie was getting better and better. When Sylvia posted her first summer score of 188 in MAY, I had to take a second look at her. Then three more wins, including Philly International, I knew her consistency was going to hold.

Last spring, people were upset that someone as old as her was going to JW. They honestly thought she wasn’t going anywhere and she should be passed over for someone like Tessa. She fought back. She worked through her injuries, her body changes, and found her consistency and a real drive to win. That alone makes me not only respect her but a real fan.

I was practically in tears when she hit her last 3S, know that she just finished yet another clean program. Now, my big fear that USFS is going to screw it up like they always do.

Evertime someone says that she needs polish, dance classes, packaging, better choreography it makes me a little nauseous. Do you know who said “They don’t give gold medals to little girls.” (Or something to that effect.) I can almost predict this and fills me with dread.

Yes. I think Bradie will be pushed to work with Frank Carroll.

There is no one better at repacking a skater to make them look more “graceful, elegant, mature, and sophisticated.” Between him and Lori Nichols, Bradie will be given a makeover and pushed to pull Ladies figure skating from the abyss.

Or maybe, Bradie has heard enough about FC to refuse him. To refuse to be packaged by someone else and chose to find her own coaches and her own style by herself. That would make me so happy. She has so much potential. Not just clean jumps and consistency, but her personality on ice is a breath of fresh air. I hope she determines her own destiny in her own Cinderella story. She doesn’t need a fairy godmother (father or federation.)

You're absolutely correct! Things I wanted to say but didn't have the eloquence too

You know, watching JWC last year, I kinda thought Bradie was going to become a big name to watch for. And look at now...

 

[klutzy]

I sometimes think Polina E. did as well as she did at the Olympics because no one expected that much out of her. The focus was on Gracie and Ashley. Sigh, the combo of Gracie and Ashley would have made a magnificent skater. Oh well, I do feel that Ashley really has done her best and Gracie did have some amazing performances.

I love the toughness and discipline of the Shibs--criticized for being slow and insufficient ice coverage? They come back with the fastest twizzles in the business and covering all of that ice. Not only are they cementing that Bronze position despite tough competition, they're leaving no room for error for the top two. If there's an opening, they're ready for it.

I've also really enjoyed the men this season. Yeah, Nathan Chen had an awful FS, but I don't worry about him--he'll figure it out and keep going. Also love his unusual choices in music--no one skates to The Rites of Spring. I love that Adam Rippon made a comeback and is doing it his own way.

I think the Ladies will have a come back--even now, there's a lot of talent out there, it's just not gelling internationally. I don't think we'll ever be a great country for pairs--just too dangerous in a lawsuit-happy country. I'm enjoying the variety of teams out there though.

Okay, I went off topic . . .

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

In all fairness, though, Ashley hasn't competed much more any season in recent years. Seems with her it all depends on how she trains in the final few weeks. She is shown in the past she's capable of pulling it together, but will she this time is anyone's guess. She's certainly had a weak season thus far. At this point, I wouldn't send any of our ladies based upon "body of work" this time. I'd just see who makes the podium and wish them luck.

I do hope Ashley is able to medal at Nationals and make the Olympic team. However, I don't think she (or any of the women) should get any sort of medical or body-of-work bye onto the team. Whereas she was clearly the top American woman going into 2014 Nationals, there is not one woman who has any sort of edge over the others today.

 

[el henry]

I don’t really follow the ladies, but having seen Bradie’s SP up close and personal at the Philly comp (and I freely admit not caring enough to go three days in a row, just to see the ladies’ LP, so that I did not see in person)

Why is everyone fixated on the Cinderella program? I really like her SP. It is strong, “hard charging” music, not at all princessy, and, at that comp, thank God it wasn’t the fourth “Fever”.

Plus maybe the girl *likes* Cinderella and wants to skate to it

 

[college pat]

i really like all the U.S. ladies,

 

[college pat]

question Does anyone know who Else Bradie coached coached _-Denise Meyers.
she seems to be a good coach.

I seem to recognize her in the past with a few skaters, but i can't remember who?

 

[TontoK]

Every time I hear pre-Nationals "body of work" musings, it sounds like laying the groundwork for future excuse-making.

Weak. Ashley's already been gifted one body-of-work elevation to an Olympic team. This time, she needs to earn it at USNats. Or not, and sit home.

 

[Mrs. P]

I don’t really follow the ladies, but having seen Bradie’s SP up close and personal at the Philly comp (and I freely admit not caring enough to go three days in a row, just to see the ladies’ LP, somthat I did not see in person)

Why is everyone fixated on the Cinderella program? I really like her SP. It is strong, “hard charging” music, not at all princessy, and, at that comp, thank God it wasn’t the fourth “Fever”.

Plus maybe the girl *likes* Cinderella and wants to skate to it

Yeah, I loved the SP, actually. And the music is NOT a warhorse. It's music from a Korean movie.

Every time I hear pre-Nationals "body of work" musings, it sounds like laying the groundwork for future excuse-making.

Weak. Ashley's already been gifted one body-of-work elevation to an Olympic team. This time, she needs to earn it at USNats. Or not, and sit home.

I find it interesting that people are considering "Body of Work" as something that is always applied, not the exception. And I agree Ashley just doesn't have the body of work this time around to justify going around Nationals results.

Back in 2014, she had come of her second-in-a-row GPF medal. She basically medaled at every GP during the previous Olympic quad (all but 2 to be precise). And also finishing in the top 5 at Worlds the last two years.

And now for some strange Ashley news: http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2017/11/28/ashley-wagner-house-intruder-photo

 

[Icey]

Rafael:
[] I had a serious conversation with her in the summer. I waited, waited for her to start acting normally, but I realized – it’s hard for her. And it’s really hard at her age to start each new season. Motivation passes. She dreamed of becoming a prize-winner at the World Championships, she did it – and then came devastation. I called her to talk, and said: If all this continues, you can finish working with me. Why else to skate if not to win? In California is heat – go on the beach, why go to the ice? We are not polar bears or penguins. I gave her a week to think it over. She brought herself in order. You know she has enough money, if she raised her hand and said ‘I’m free’ a million of “passengers” will come to her. After all, we have different coaches. Some are responsible for what they do. Others – “passengers”. You know, skater is like a rocket flies upwards, and they cling to this rocket. So, I told her, ‘There is plenty who wants to cling to you and to sit with you in the Kiss-and-cry corner’, which I honestly hate.[/]



http://fs-gossips.com/rafael-arutyunyan-some-coaches-cling-to-an-athlete-like-to-a-rocket/

 

[randomfan]

And now for some strange Ashley news: http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2017/11/28/ashley-wagner-house-intruder-photo

That’s terrifying, especially since the intruder appeared multiple times. I hope Ashley can somehow solve this fast!

 

[Icey]

Looks like Ashley would install a security system that brings the police on when this happens. I thought "she" was a man when I first looked at the picture.