IOC's banning of Russia from 2018 Olympics

[Amei]

This is all posturing. Every single athlete given the green light to compete at these OG WILL compete. And if they get their medals, Putin will throw the biggest post Olympic Gala ever. It will rival the opulence of everything they did after Sochi. As Bolt would say, "Argument done."

I wonder if Russia allows their athletes to compete they do it with a 'stunt' in mind - like the athletes don't go to medal ceremonies if they win or wear something that signifies the Russian flag on their costumes/uniforms

 

[bramweld]

I wonder if Russia allows their athletes to compete they do it with a 'stunt' in mind - like the athletes don't go to medal ceremonies if they win or wear something that signifies the Russian flag on their costumes/uniforms

I wouldn't be surprised by anything they do. But I think, don't quote me on this though, there are monetary fines for violating certain prescribed protocols without sound reason. Maybe someone who knows for sure could let us know.

 

[charlotte14]

They will go. Putin wants good PR for his next election as well. He will encourage them.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Everyone at the Olympics should compete without a country. Why are any country flags singled out at ceremonies if it's supposedly about unity.

 

[millie]

Everyone at the Olympics should compete without a country. Why are any country flags singled out at ceremonies if it's supposedly about unity.

Because they are not cheaters. The atheletes are proud to participate under their own flag. The cheaters have to face their consequences and the humiliation of all the clean atheletes have to pay for the cheater's actions.

 

[volk]

Because they are not cheaters. The atheletes are proud to participate under their own flag. The cheaters have to face their consequences and the humiliation of all the clean atheletes have to pay for the cheater's actions.

Russian skaters are clean. They deserve to go to Olympics under Russian flag. Everyone else can go under neutral flag.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Because they are not cheaters. The athletes are proud to participate under their own flag.

I don't think you're seeing what I'm saying.

Nobody should care about any country at a sporting event that's supposedly about unity. Countries are a construct. It's 1 planet, everyone is equal, etc.

 

[Big Deal]

Does it mean that Russia can NOT participate in the Team Event? I think that it is clear. Also Ice hockey and Curling. It cannot be a “ Group of individuals” to compete as a team in an Olympic event.
IF skaters clear we don’t know. Some of them was already caught and banned before from Russia....
In Sochi most of them had the skating of their life without any mistakes under incredible pressure. That time the medication which can cause this effect was not listed by the WADA only a year later.

 

[millie]

Russian skaters are clean. They deserve to go to Olympics under Russian flag. Everyone else can go under neutral flag.

My point is that the clean skaters has to pay the penalty for the atheletes in the last Olympics that failed the doping test. Why do they deserve to go under the Russian flag and other countries that played by the rules participate under a neutral flag. That don't make sense...

 

[yude]

I wonder how the administrative details will work out for Russian figure skaters... Will the Russian Fed support them or they'll have to pay themselves? Will the preparation camp in Japan before the Olympics still take place?

It totally slipped my mind, I will keep checking on the news.

 

[millie]

I don't think you're seeing what I'm saying.

Nobody should care about any country at a sporting event that's supposedly about unity. Countries are a construct. It's 1 planet, everyone is equal, etc.

At the opening ceremonies, an athelete from the host country takes the following oath on behalf of all the atheletes.
"In the name of all the competitors, I promise that we shall take part in these Olympic Games, respecting and abiding by the rules which govern them, committing ourselves to a sport without doping and without drugs in the true spirit of sportsmanship, for the glory of sport and the honorary of our team". It is a time for laying aside political and religious differences as the atheletes compete. The Olympic Creed " The most important thing in the Olympic Games in not to win but to take part, just as the most important thing in life is not the triumph but the struggle. The essential thing is not to have conquered but to have fought well".
It is about unity but it is also about honesty and doing the best you can do without help. In my opinion, that's what the Olympics are about.

 

[volk]

My point is that the clean skaters has to pay the penalty for the atheletes in the last Olympics that failed the doping test. Why do they deserve to go under the Russian flag and other countries that played by the rules participate under a neutral flag. That don't make sense...

Clean athletes shouldn't pay for anything because they're not guilty.

 

[Anni234]

Does it mean that Russia can NOT participate in the Team Event? I think that it is clear. Also Ice hockey and Curling. It cannot be a “ Group of individuals” to compete as a team in an Olympic event.

They can participate in the team event.

 

[AnalyticalMind]

To the people talking past each other on this thread—

Your points are not mutually exclusive, i.e., that both of the following are true at the same time (1) it's awful for innocent athletes to be affected; but (2) an state-sanctioned doping program must be punished.

It's clear to me that the IOC was aware of this tension, so they decided to go with what would satisfy both of these truths: ban the Russian Olympic Committee but create a framework through which individual athletes can compete.

Like others, I'm also glad that Putin publicly consented to individual athletes competing as OAR, whether or not there's a darker underside.

 

[Lucky Star]

Does it mean that Russia can NOT participate in the Team Event? I think that it is clear. Also Ice hockey and Curling. It cannot be a “ Group of individuals” to compete as a team in an Olympic event.

Aha, sure. That's exactly what they want, a “ Group of individuals”, at least when it comes to hockey. After NHL didn't let their players go to the Olympics, if Russian team doesn't participate and especially if KHL don't let their players go too as they threat, imagine what Olympic hockey, probably the most impostant competition, would look like and would people even care about it. And especially how much money IOC will lose because of that

 

[pearly]

Does it mean that Russia can NOT participate in the Team Event? I think that it is clear. Also Ice hockey and Curling. It cannot be a “ Group of individuals” to compete as a team in an Olympic event.

That should work out just fine considering the "team" in the figure skating team event is exactly a group of individuals.

 

[qwertyskates]

This is to address the posts that suggest not supporting the verdict = not caring about athletes who missed out on their podium moment due to their competitors doping.

Assuming that justice is served (I have my skepticism because I prefer a higher standard of legal procedures) the report concludes that there was systemic doping, not state-sponsored/state-supported doping. There is a difference.

So punishing Russia the country, and by extension, all its athletes, makes no sense to me. The punishment should match the crime. I prefer systemic punishment, not at a country level.

Fortunately, the final decisions aren't so harsh after all, with clean athletes allowed and some allusions to Russia as a country.

To me, I'm not concerned about Russia as a country "losing face", it's more about what it means to its innocent athletes to suffer collective punishment. Systemic means that the clean athletes and their coaches weren't aware/refused to commit the crime.

For me, it's a paradox how one can care about clean athletes who suffer from others doping, but not about clean athletes who suffer from collective punishment due to others doping. Some clean athletes have suffered, therefore some clean athletes must also pay?

Secondly, I don't watch other sports except figure skating, and I know for a fact that figure skating is one of the cleanest sports, with only one violation by German skaters. I'm perfectly fine with other winter sports with really high dopers being more harshly sanctioned, eg. biathlon? Ban the entire segment and only invite the clean biathletes if it was so corrupted.

I don't support figure skaters or figure skating punished at all, in any way, since historically, they and the sport are all clean, and I love the sport. Punishing clean figure skaters doesn't help the victims of doping in other sports get justice.

 

[qwertyskates]

Everyone at the Olympics should compete without a country. Why are any country flags singled out at ceremonies if it's supposedly about unity.

Actually, it's meant to be Unity despite coming from different tribes, countries, ethnicities, cultures, etc.

Coming together as One Humanity despite our differences. :agree:

So we recognize the need to compete as it is ingrained in us to best each other, as diverse tribes, countries, peoples, but in a way that celebrates the best that we offer, not destroys, and in doing so, we recognize that we're all one tribe, humans, after all.

 

[GGFan]

This is to address the posts that suggest not supporting the verdict = not caring about athletes who missed out on their podium moment due to their competitors doping.

Assuming that justice is served (I have my skepticism because I prefer a higher standard of legal procedures) the report concludes that there was systemic doping, not state-sponsored/state-supported doping. There is a difference.

So punishing Russia the country, and by extension, all its athletes, makes no sense to me. The punishment should match the crime. I prefer systemic punishment, not at a country level.

Fortunately, the final decisions aren't so harsh after all, with clean athletes allowed and some allusions to Russia as a country.

To me, I'm not concerned about Russia as a country "losing face", it's more about what it means to its innocent athletes to suffer collective punishment. Systemic means that the clean athletes and their coaches weren't aware/refused to commit the crime.

For me, it's a paradox how one can care about clean athletes who suffer from others doping, but not about clean athletes who suffer from collective punishment due to others doping. Some clean athletes have suffered, therefore some clean athletes must also pay?

Secondly, I don't watch other sports except figure skating, and I know for a fact that figure skating is one of the cleanest sports, with only one violation by German skaters. I'm perfectly fine with other winter sports with really high dopers being more harshly sanctioned, eg. biathlon? Ban the entire segment and only invite the clean biathletes if it was so corrupted.

I don't support figure skaters or figure skating punished at all, in any way, since historically, they and the sport are all clean, and I love the sport. Punishing clean figure skaters doesn't help the victims of doping in other sports get justice.

This is misleading for several reasons:

1. The IOC is not a governmental body investigating crimes. They have no police or subpoena powers. They're an independent body with a charter that everyone agrees to. They more than followed their internal processes and the appellate rights are available. Bottom line: it is well within the IOC's jurisdiction to decide who it invites to the Olympics. Nothing else is required by international law.

2. State-sponsored vs. systemic doping part 1. Of course there's a difference and the Schmid report is very clear about this. They do not call it state-sponsored because there wasn't evidence to prove "who initiated or headed the scheme." But this relates back to #1: the IOC doesn't have police powers so it's not like it can subpoena the hard drives of high government officials. They have no jurisdiction. It doesn't mean that it wasn't state sponsored, but they didn't have evidence. I appreciate that they were clear about that.

3. State-sponsored vs. systemic doping part 2. They still said there was a conspiracy across the subordinated entities of the government including CSP, VNIIFK, RUSADA, Moscow and Sochi Laboratories. Basically this means that while they didn't have a smoking gun on Putin or anything, all of the government entities were engaged in wrongdoing. It is quite common that in cases like these you would have vicarious liability. Russia signed up for the Olympic Charter so it should be responsible for its subordinated entities.

4. Everyone feels for clean athletes whether Russian or otherwise. The problem is that Russia undermined the whole system by tampering with it. To date we still cannot determine everyone who is clean or not because there are huge gaps in testing. RUSADA has still not been reinstated so now the IOC and WADA are left to put puzzle pieces together to allow athletes to compete.

5. The IOC went out of its way to avoid collective punishment and balanced several competing interests. Hopefully the Russian government will actually think about its clean athletes going forward.

 

[Alex D]

In Athletics, the whole "clean" athletes was more like a farce, wasn´t it?

You were only allowed to go, if you did not practice and reside in Russia. What if, the IOC demands this as well? If they truly believe RUSADA is bad and did not test properly, then the consequence would be that all tests by RUSADA have no value and therefore, no clean athlete would exist in Russia, as the tests there, are based on RUSADA.

At least this was the argumentation in Athletics and in the end, just two athletes did compete.

No doping test, is handed as having doped... The ISU is testing a lot, so do other federations, but if this will be sufficent?