2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[frida80]

No, Hannah won’t go to jr Worlds because she’s too old to go. I wish they could send her *somewhere*. Did u see how defeated she looked in kiss and cry?
Emmy could be sent but she is so inconsistent and has no 3-3.
There are some other juniors who could go but they also are inconsistent.
One spot for the US jr ladies next year, I believe.

There are two Hanna(h)’s. There’s Hannah Miller that just competed and Hanna Harrell, who’s a promising junior that just scored 189 in midwestern sectionals.

She just beat Starr at Golden Spin and wasn't Starr on JW team last year? I don't really follow Juniors but in any case, Emmy did quite well in the free skate in Croatia.

Both Emmy and Starr did quite well for their first Challenger series. I think Emmy is finally settled with her long program and hopefully the glitches from earlier in the season are gone. As for Starr, she put in her flip and lutz for the first time since her injury in September. That and the change of layout dropped her score considerable. Good for her using this as practice for nationals. They both get WR points, which could help them if they’re names to the JW team.

As for Hannah Miller, this was her first international competition in two seasons. Sometimes it times a few competitons to get use to competing again. She looked good in sectionals. So I think this was good for her as well.

 

[skylark]

brought up competitive. yes-- how competitive is the mindset of the u.s. skaters this olympic season.

the russian, japanese and even canadians ladies seem to have more of a competitive mindset than the u.s. ladies--

that is what seem to me.

it what they want out of the sport, competition. they compete their way to get it. and ready for it.
which brings me to the next question regarding "eteri ladies", is the competition their mindset or their coaches,

is it what the coaches want, or the skaters,

Bradie seems to me to have quite a competitive mind-set, and also good competition nerves. From her comments after SA, she seems level-headed about it also. But I know very little about her.

Karen is a fierce competitor, at least this is the vibe I get from her: She's an A-student type who wants to do well; and she wants to match or exceed her past record ... competing with herself, as much as with other people. She puts pressure on herself, and hasn't found her consistency/ competitive mind-set. Yet. She also has a competing strong motivation: a desire to express her artistry through her skating.

Ashley is a fierce competitor who tends to bring it in the moment when the pressure is on. She's motivated by proving people wrong when they say she's not good enough. Over an astounding number of years, she's been extremely consistent, so I don't think it can be correct to say she doesn't have a competitive mind-set. She's learned to deal with competition nerves, but it's still a fight.

Ashley has said repeatedly that she's a performer at heart: she likes being center ice, center of attention, and she passionately desires to give the audience a performance that will make them feel something, give them their money's worth, have them be glad they came (or watched).

Mirai is a competitor; she's still here after all these years and trying to do something new, to challenge herself. The idea I get from her is that when expectations are low (both hers and other people's), she sails through with flying colors. (examples: 1. she's said that when she first competed at senior level nationals (2008), she never expected to podium ... and she won. 2. She's said she felt Olympic pressure in 2010, but I wonder if she also told herself, I'm only 16, this Olympics isn't my time ... and surprise was 4th).

these 4 are all I have energy for right now. I guess the bottom line is: it's complicated.

 

[R.D.]

Outside of perhaps Bradie Tennell - and even that is yet to be proven - none of the US girls has shown any kind of consistency this season.

Wagner may be a "performer at heart", but if she wants to stay relevant competitively, she'll need to start landing some jumps...otherwise, she can always skate in shows.

Chen and Nagasu - similar story, land (rotate) those jumps...

I wonder what we'll see of Edmunds at Nationals. On one hand, I don't see any indication she'll be a serious Oly team contender...but on the other, if she does get her jumps back...

 

[skylark]

^^^ Well, I was talking about the competitive mindset of our US Ladies, answering a (perhaps rhetorical) question.

I know Karen, Ashley and Mirai need to start landing and rotating their jumps. I find it an interesting question to consider. I also don't think Ashley deserves your remark "otherwise she can always skate in shows." Ashley knows that. She's chosen to compete this year. I don't think skaters should be spoken of dismissively because they have challenges over a season ... or even two. Carolina Kostner is probably the best example of that.

 

[flipsydoodle]

To answer flipsydoodle's question.
Ashley and Gracie were clearly the #1 and #2 going into Nationals.
Just 4 years before, Mirai had been 4th at the Olympics but then had done ok but not great.
Polina to seemed an unknown who got lucky at Nationals. I viewed her skate as more of a Sara Hughes at SLC.

Those were my opinions at the time the decision was made.

OK Now I see you meant it was your debate and not “the” debate.

 

[klutzy]

Guys, the fed was never going to bump its silver medalist at Nationals so the fourth-place finisher could go. If Mirai was so much worthier of the Olympics slot than Polina Edmunds well, she should have shown it by beating her at Nationals. Honestly, I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand--figure skating is a competitive sport. You show what your worth by how you do at competitions.

You don't pass by the third-place finisher and send the silver medalist home--figure skating already has a huge issue with perceived favoritism. Sending Mirai and Ashley over Polina would have rendered Nationals essentially meaningless as a competition.

It was touchy that Ashley replaced Mirai, but bumping the silver medalist? That would have been extremely unpopular with the people who tune into skating every four years. You know, the people the fed wishes would show more interest in figure skating during non-Olympic years?

Mirai Nagasu can earn her Olympic spot the way Polina did--by skating well at Nationals. I honestly don't get the sense of entitlement some Mirai fans seem to have about this. She didn't earn the spot. If you're her fan, hope for her to skate in a way that she earns her spot instead grousing how she should have taken someone else's spot.

 

[ask]

Top 3 go this year. None is indispensable.

Use Carolina Kostner as the smell test. If you cannot beat a bad Carolina at your best, you don't deserve the spot unless you place top 3.

 

[ice coverage]

Guys, the fed was never going to bump its silver medalist at Nationals so the fourth-place finisher could go. If Mirai was so much worthier of the Olympics slot than Polina Edmunds well, she should have shown it by beating her at Nationals. Honestly, I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand--figure skating is a competitive sport. You show what your worth by how you do at competitions.

You don't pass by the third-place finisher and send the silver medalist home--figure skating already has a huge issue with perceived favoritism. Sending Mirai and Ashley over Polina would have rendered Nationals essentially meaningless as a competition.

It was touchy that Ashley replaced Mirai, but bumping the silver medalist? That would have been extremely unpopular with the people who tune into skating every four years. You know, the people the fed wishes would show more interest in figure skating during non-Olympic years?

Mirai Nagasu can earn her Olympic spot the way Polina did--by skating well at Nationals. I honestly don't get the sense of entitlement some Mirai fans seem to have about this. She didn't earn the spot. If you're her fan, hope for her to skate in a way that she earns her spot instead grousing how she should have taken someone else's spot.

I never had a problem with Ashley going to Sochi.
At the same time, my heart went out to Mirai because of the circumstances for her.

Your post is full of double standards.

For one thing, you seem to have forgotten that bumping the bronze medalist for the lady in fourth place WAS extremely unpopular with the people who tune into skating every four years.

I don't want to hijack the thread into a rehash of 2014, so I will refrain from responding to all the other meaningless "points" in your post.

 

[R.D.]

I know Karen, Ashley and Mirai need to start landing and rotating their jumps. I find it an interesting question to consider. I also don't think Ashley deserves your remark "otherwise she can always skate in shows." ...

no, actually, it's a nod to her performance ability (and her stated desire for doing so). I have seen her perform in shows and she's a valuable addition to any cast. With the right program, she knows how to get an audience going. But if she wants to be competitive - and I hear her repeat this time and time again in interviews - it's going to take more than simply performing. I believe Tara Lipinski alluded to such during the SA broadcast as well, so I'm not alone in thinking this...

Anyway, as it stands now, she can be introduced as "World Silver Medalist" in any show she participates in. :yes:

 

[klutzy]

Agreed. Nathan Chen has earned a bye, but that's it.

 

[klutzy]

How is it full of double standards? I didn't say a thing about whether Ashley should have bumped Mirai. Personally, I can see both sides of that argument--I'd say the most compelling argument for Ashley going is that her performance at Worlds was arguably why there was a third spot combined with a good Grand Prix run. But sending her *was* dodgy--sending both her and Mirai over Polina would have been even dodgier. As I say, it would have rendered Nationals meaningless.

And, yes, it was sad for Mirai. It's sad that Polina injured her foot and couldn't go to Worlds in Boston (But, hey, Mirai got her spot and . . .placed lower at Worlds than Polina did at the Olympics). It was sad that Tiffany Chin, after getting fourth in the Olympics, never fulfilled that early promise--she was an exquisite skater. It was sad when Michelle Kwan didn't win Gold. Figure skating's a tough sport; it's not going to be a happy ending for everyone.

And you won't be hijacking the thread; the discussion's already in the thread. So what are the double standards?

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

It was touchy that Ashley replaced Mirai, but bumping the silver medalist? That would have been extremely unpopular with the people who tune into skating every four years. You know, the people the fed wishes would show more interest in figure skating during non-Olympic years?

I agree. There was a compelling reason to send Ashley: she was the most consistent skater for several years and Team USA needed steady women for the team event. Ashley and Gracie probably were also considered to have outside chances at a medal. Both Adelina and Carolina skated much better in Sochi than they normally did and, had they not, Gracie would have been an Olympic singles medalist. I thought it was ok for the USFSA to pick the highest finisher of the rest to join those two.

 

[brightphoton]

But if she wants to be competitive - and I hear her repeat this time and time again in interviews - it's going to take more than simply performing. I believe Tara Lipinski alluded to such during the SA broadcast as well, so I'm not alone in thinking this...

It wouldn't be the first time Tara poo-pooed Ashley's abilities. Early in Ashley's career, she would often say that Tara Lipinski was her figure skating idol. To hear those sort of comments from your role model must be like a dagger to the heart.

I watched Ashley's Wilson Blades sponsored Q&A on Instagram, back in, I don't know, 2012? 2013? Someone asked her who her skating idol was. Did you know what Ashley answered?

Michelle Kwan.

:^)

 

[klutzy]

I agree. There was a compelling reason to send Ashley: she was the most consistent skater for several years and Team USA needed steady women for the team event. Ashley and Gracie probably were also considered to have outside chances at a medal. Both Adelina and Carolina skated much better in Sochi than they normally did and, had they not, Gracie would have been an Olympic singles medalist. I thought it was ok for the USFSA to pick the highest finisher of the rest to join those two.

Poor Gracie, so close to medals more than once. Just rewatched her Team event skate at Sochi a few days ago--it was so beautiful. And at Worlds, of course, she lost the Gold to LP nerves and the bronze because Ashley had the skate of her life.

But re: Ashley, yes I've always seen why sending her in lieu of Mirai happened and also why Mirai and her fans would be upset. No good solution for that one--certainly not kicking out the second-place finisher.

This Nationals, I'm just hoping for some skaters to come through with terrific performances--any three will do.

 

[mrrice]

Poor Gracie, so close to medals more than once. Just rewatched her Team event skate at Sochi a few days ago--it was so beautiful. And at Worlds, of course, she lost the Gold to LP nerves and the bronze because Ashley had the skate of her life.

But re: Ashley, yes I've always seen why sending her in lieu of Mirai happened and also why Mirai and her fans would be upset. No good solution for that one--certainly not kicking out the second-place finisher.

This Nationals, I'm just hoping for some skaters to come through with terrific performances--any three will do.

This is exactly how I feel. I don't care who makes the team as long they earn their spot by having the skate of their lives.....I wouldn't hold up ANY of the US Ladies this year. With none of them making the GPF, there's absolutely NO guarantee that any of our ladies will deliver under pressure in Korea. I think Bradie will win and I have no idea who else will make the team.

 

[draqq]

This contest may come down to underrotations, which both Mirai and Ashley are prone to do. If the judging panel is lenient, then they have a much better shot of making the Olympic team. If not, then skaters like Courtney Hicks and Angela Wang have a shot (and Bradie Tennell is a clear favorite to win).

 

[mrrice]

This contest may come down to underrotations, which both Mirai and Ashley are prone to do. If the judging panel is lenient, then they have a much better shot of making the Olympic team. If not, then skaters like Courtney Hicks and Angela Wang have a shot (and Bradie Tennell is a clear favorite to win).

If clean, I agree. I've always mentioned Angela as a potential medalist but she never seems to skate back to back strong programs. Courtney has the jumps but, I wonder if the judges are seeing something that I'm not. The fact that she wasn't given better assignments leads me to believe the fed had a problem with her. Yet, I don't know what it is as she's one of our best jumpers....When she hits them....

 

[temadd]

I just can't imagine sending Angela Wang (as much as I love her skating) or Courtney Hicks to the Olympics if they end up on the podium.

 

[R.D.]

It wouldn't be the first time Tara poo-pooed Ashley's abilities. Early in Ashley's career, she would often say that Tara Lipinski was her figure skating idol. To hear those sort of comments from your role model must be like a dagger to the heart.

Am I misremembering or was Lipinski a mentor for Wagner early on in her career as well?

Anyway, Lipinski is simply doing her job as a commentator - I think it's a perfectly fair (and accurate) comment that I also happen to agree with. But yes, I'm sure from Wagner's point of view it must sting a bit to hear sharp criticism coming from TL. That said, it is ultimately up to Wagner to prove her naysayers wrong by going out there and skating like we all know she can.

 

[ice coverage]

... But, hey, Mirai got her spot and . . .placed lower at Worlds than Polina did at the Olympics...

If you're suggesting that it should be considered a retroactive justification for the 2014 decision, then that's another meaningless "point," IMO.

Mirai scored 186.65 at 2016 Worlds, and placed tenth.

Polina scored 183.25 in Sochi, and placed ninth.

Big deal :sarcasm:.

---

... Figure skating's a tough sport; it's not going to be a happy ending for everyone. ...

And I did not say otherwise.

I would have been sad for Ashley if she had not gone to Sochi.

This year, if Ashley, Karen, Mariah, and Mirai are considered frontrunners (as the USOC and NBC believe), then at least one of them will not make it to Korea.
I will be sad for any of them who do not -- regardless of the reason.

In my previous post, I merely was giving context/"disclosure" that (1) I had no problem with Ashley going to Sochi and (2) my heart had gone out to Mirai. And that I do not have the supposed "sense of entitlement" that you attributed to some Mirai fans.