2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[mrrice]

Polina didn't practice lutz or flip in practice sessions. I'm sure she'll receive some decent PCS, but she isn't going to have the TES for top 6 this year, I would imagine. At least having her go first means people have a reason to show up on time to the event.

I just don't think Polina is committed to skating anymore. Would Evgenia Medvedeva have gone this long without regaining her lutz and flip after suffering injury and time off? I don't think so. Caroline Zhang underwent incredibly intensive hip surgery a few years ago and is back and better than ever. Nathan has tons of quads after suffering injuries and having surgery. Skaters who really want it are able to make shockingly quick comebacks after injuries and other problems.

It's just disappointing. I hope she becomes more motivated next season or just decides to retire.

I agree......I wish she had delayed college for 1 year. I know that when you're young you want to have everything but, someone should have told her to take her classes online. Michelle Kwan went to UCLA for 1 semester and admitted that it was just too much for her to study and train at a high level.

You're right about Polina being young enough to continue on after this season. I just hope she has a decent showing since the arena will be filled with locals and they all want to see her do her best.

 

[concorde]

I am inclined to agree with you. That said, it's obvious that USFS doesn't do that, for whatever reason (I suppose the older ladies are just somewhat more competitive than the younger, junior ladies?)

This would be a good year to send two junior ladies to JW instead of senior/junior ladies, since if Emmy/Starr/Vivian/others skate well enough at Nationals, they will presumably go to 4CCs.

Maybe Emily Zhang for Jr. Worlds. She is currently in 2nd and tends to excel in the long program.

Hmmm ... no one seemed bothered when USFS sent Vincent to Junior Worlds last year even though he placed 2nd in Senior Men. Just saying ...

 

[princessalica]

So of the junior ladies that did well in the short, I have not heard of Gabrielle Izzo. Alysa, Pooja, and Hanna yes, but not Gabrielle.... so what do we know about her?

On a side note, I was really hoping Icenetwork would offer a nationals discount again, but I haven't seen anything. Has anyone else?

 

[andromache]

Maybe Emily Zhang for Jr. Worlds. She is currently in 2nd and tends to excel in the long program.

Hmmm ... no one seemed bothered when USFS sent Vincent to Junior Worlds last year even though he placed 2nd in Senior Men. Just saying ...

The top echelon of ladies at Junior Worlds are, with few exceptions, NOT age-eligible for Senior Worlds.

This does not tend to be the case for men, for whom it is fairly common to compete as a junior internationally 2-3 after becoming age-eligible for seniors, simply because men take a few extra years of seasoning compared to ladies. The top competitors at Junior Worlds were, for the men, 16-18 years old. Vincent was 16 and competing against the men in his age group. For ladies, the top competitors were (and will be) 13-15 years old. USFS sent Starr Andrews (15 years old at the time, so, fine) and Bradie Tennell, who was 18, and was thus losing to girls younger than her.

If USFS sends Starr and Emmy this season to Junior Worlds, both will be part of an older peer group than the top medal prospects.

People's ire has nothing to do with what level they're competing at nationally other than their age. Heck, Camden will likely win the junior national title, Alexei will skate well enough at senior nationals, both are 17 years old, and both will be sent to JW, where they and other top competitors will be around the same age.

There are those of us who would like to see skaters who are in the age group of the top medal prospects get sent to Junior Worlds, rather than senior age group girls who aren't good enough to compete as seniors internationally.

Russia and Japan have plenty of 16-18 year old girls who could theoretically go to JWs - I expect both countries to send their best 13-15 year olds, rather than sending ladies the same age as the senior world champion to risk losing to 13-15 year olds.

How old is Emily Zhang? I can't find anything about her when I google her.

(ETA: If it was up to me, I'd send any age-eligible girl under 16 with a 3-3 to JW, dependent upon their scores/placements at junior or senior nationals.)

 

[TontoK]

Brennan is actually making the point that the committees have been given flexibility. She's pointing out that, in consideration of who will make the best impact for another US medal, in addition to a men's medal and a dance medal ... a team medal ... they may be looking at (for example) 1. those who are a known quantity, and 2. those who have proven that they can stand up to the pressure of skating for the team, not just themselves, and 3. other factors... I won't repeat the whole article.

I am flabbergasted that people will use this as an opportunity to drum up sentiment against Ashley when they haven't even read the article. Nothing should surprise me anymore around here in this respect. But it still does.
I]

Who else, other than Ashley, could she have been referencing? Especially the segment dealing with who has stood up to the pressure of skating for the team? The only other woman to have ever skated for a team is Gracie Gold. Do you think she means Gracie?

 

[AshWagsFan]

Can’t be 2 Lutzes AND 2 Flips, as she does the 3F/3T combo, and the 2a/3T/2t combo, and you are only allowed 2 repeated triples. It was 2 Flips and 2 Toes. Still super impressive! I think the only questionable rotation was on the 3Z/2t combo.

Sorry! I realized I forgot she can’t do 2 lutzes! Still exciting tho!

 

[concorde]

How old is Emily Zhang? I can't find anything about her when I google her.

What is confusing is there are 2 Emily Zhang's competing at Nationals this year. We are referring to the Junior level one.

Unfortunately I cannot find anything that lists her age or even her school grade

 

[andromache]

What is confusing is there are 2 Emily Zhang's competing at Nationals this year. We are referring to the Junior level one.

Unfortunately I cannot find anything that lists her age or even her school grade

I was also referring to her! Bummer we can't figure out if she's age-eligible for juniors internationally or not!

 

[ice coverage]

What is confusing is there are 2 Emily Zhang's competing at Nationals this year. We are referring to the Junior level one.

Unfortunately I cannot find anything that lists her age or even her school grade

Birth dates for novice/junior/senior entries are in the mini-bios in the official event program for Nats.

The mini-bios include also listings of coaches, music choices, etc.

Per p. 52 of the program, the Emily Zhang in Junior Ladies was born on Sep 7, 2003.

http://www.omagdigital.com/publication/?m=44685&l=1#{"issue_id":461832,"page":54}​

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Were you wearing a blue and white jacket?

A black hoodie for most of the time.
IIRC, near the end, I added a blue windbreaker (not blue-and-white) as an extra layer.
(Hasten to add -- for others who have been wondering -- that SAP temperature generally was very comfortable. At times, I was feeling overly warm in the black hoodie alone.)

 

[frida80]

Maybe Emily Zhang for Jr. Worlds. She is currently in 2nd and tends to excel in the long program.

Hmmm ... no one seemed bothered when USFS sent Vincent to Junior Worlds last year even though he placed 2nd in Senior Men. Just saying ...

Emily won’t be eligible for JW, because she doesn’t has the technical minimums. USFS won’t want to send someone that hasn’t even competed internationally yet.

 

[SnowWhite]

My favorite commentator right now is Charlie White. Not sure he can be heard outside of icenetwork. He tells you everything you need to know, voices his opinions and, most importantly, knows when to just shut up and let you enjoy the performance. As one of the lesser educated fans on here, I need some info from the commentators, but I don't need them talking the whole time.

Ok...back to the topic...

I like his commentary too, it was cool listening to him comment on Tessa and Scott, for example. Good insights.

Hard to say who is looking good for Junior Worlds...

Vivian Le made several mistakes, Kaitlyn Nguyen (who was really good last year in juniors) had four falls, and Tessa Hong was underrotating everything.

Starr was okay (I don't get the hype), and Alysa Liu seems like a lock for the junior title. That might be a nice JW team. Oh, also Emmy Ma, who wasn't terrible.

But I 100% want Alysa Liu on the JW team. Is she old enough to compete as a junior internationally?

With Alysa too young, and Emily not having the tech minimums according to Frida80, who does that leave from the Jr ladies? Ting is really far behind after the SP, Hannah Harrell is in 5th, so she might be able to pull up. I guess Angelina Huang could do the same. If neither of them is quite strong in the FS, then it'll probably be whoever places highest in Sr.

Can't we stop pushing seniors who don't place high enough for senior worlds?
Is it too much to send talented junior-age skaters at the junior-level? Like other countries that do well in ladies skating, such as Russia and Japan...?
Right now, I'd want to send Alysa Liu but obviously she's not old enough, so then I'd pick Hanna Harrell and Ting Cui.

What makes them seniors though? Because girls like Starr and Emmy competed on the JGP, but decided to do seniors domestically. I mean, I agree that the USFSA sends older girls to JW too often at the expense of younger talent, but I don't think your comparison to Russia and Japan makes that much sense here. Both those countries have separate junior and senior Nats at different times, so girls do both. If Japan had it all at the same time, Rika Kihara might have just done seniors and they would still have picked her for JW.

And it's not like those countries never send senior-eligible girls to JW. Kaori Sakamoto has been senior-eligible since the 2015-16 season, and she was sent to JW last season. Stanislava Konstantinova was senior-eligible las season and was still sent to JW last season.

I think sending Bradie, who hadn't even competed on the JGP last season, wasn't the best decision - although if that helped her do so well this season I'm sure it was worth it to the USFSA - but I don't think it makes sense to ignore skaters like Starr or Emmy just because they are competing Sr, but also don't give them a bonus just for being Sr. If they actually seem stronger than any of the junior-eligible girls, then send them, if it's close, maybe go with the younger girls.

 

[andromache]

I think sending Bradie, who hadn't even competed on the JGP last season, wasn't the best decision - although if that helped her do so well this season I'm sure it was worth it to the USFSA - but I don't think it makes sense to ignore skaters like Starr or Emmy just because they are competing Sr, but also don't give them a bonus just for being Sr. If they actually seem stronger than any of the junior-eligible girls, then send them, if it's close, maybe go with the younger girls.

Since Emmy and Starr are both 16 and definitely on the younger end of senior-eligible girls, that'd be fine by me (especially since the age-eligible girls in juniors with minimums like Kaitlyn Nguyen, Ting, and Hanna seem to be doing poorly - well actually Kaitlyn is competing as a senior at Nationals, but her practice went very badly so I'm just making assumptions). But if Hanna makes the podium, send her to JW.

 

[Mathman]

Who else, other than Ashley, could she have been referencing? Especially the segment dealing with who has stood up to the pressure of skating for the team? ...

To me, this whole "skating for the team" thing is kind of strange anyway, as applied to figure skating. Each skater performs as an individual and does her best. She is not going to do better or worse if they add her points onto someone else's after the skating is done.

I can see it somewhat in a sport like gymnastics, where you might need to include a specialist in a particular apparatus to support your top all-arounders.

 

[OS]

If Mirai fail to make the team and Lala land ends up be Rah Rah land / Nah Nah land ....then THAT'S IT for the whole season for the ladies. Not watching anymore.

 

[Parsifal3363]

I’m not sure that Polina would have benefitted from taking the semester off from college. My understanding is that she was limited in what she could do or how intensively she could train through the summer. Even as late as the Finlandia Cup in October, she would immediately get out of her skating boots after a program and sit in the “kiss n’ cry” wearing soft insulated boots. It was unusual for any skater to do and something she had never done before. If true, it would not have mattered whether she was at home or at school, and should not be taken as a reflection on her seriousness of purpose.

Her intention all along had been to go to college while training for national and international competitions. That was one reason why she chose Santa Clara University*, because of its proximity to where she would be training. It is the same pattern she had established in high school, when she was a full-time student at Archbishop Mitty High School. I think that having this sort of well-rounded life has given her a certain strength and resiliency, which in the past has been demonstrated in her consistency and competitive spirit.

What has made it especially difficult in regaining her form, however, is that her injury coincided with her reaching her normal adult weight and height. She’s now five feet eight inches tall and quite a willowy young woman by figure skating standards.

When she experienced a growth spurt during the 2015 season, it had a disastrous effect on her debut on the senior Grand Prix circuit. The difference is that she was able to keep training then, and thus to preserve her basic technique. She recovered sufficiently to do well in the national championship, coming in fourth, and then won the Four Continents Championship, to the surprise of many. In 2016, she gave Gracie Gold a superb run for the gold medal at the nationals and seemed about to break through on the international scene, when she suffered this injury. Unfortunately, she experienced a last growth spurt while she was unable to practice her technique or to train hard for a while when she came back.

Christy Ness has been involved in her training since the fall and observers at the early training sessions have reported a marked improvement in her form since the Internationaux de France last November. Apparently, she is still lacking her triple lutz and flip jumps, which will make the PCS all the more important for her chances to medal, since she will be giving away points to her major competitors in TES. She has two beautiful programs, however, and her skating costumes are also lovely. I share mrrice's hope that she’ll skate cleanly and well before her hometown folks.

Then let be what will be.

* Thanks to jenaj!

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

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[Sam-Skwantch]

I’m not sure that Polina would have benefitted from taking the semester off from college. My understanding is that she was limited in what she could do or how intensively she could train through the summer. Even as late as the Finlandia Cup in October, she would immediately get out of her skating boots after a program and sit in the “kiss n’ cry” wearing soft insulated boots. It was unusual for any skater to do and something she had never done before. If true, it would not have mattered whether she was at home or at school, and should not be taken as a reflection on her seriousness of purpose.

Her intention all along had been to go to college while training for national and international competitions. That was one reason why she chose San Jose State University, because of its proximity to where she would be training. It is the same pattern she had established in high school, when she was a full-time student at Archbishop Mitty High School. I think that having this sort of well-rounded life has given her a certain strength and resiliency, which in the past has been demonstrated in her consistency and competitive spirit.

What has made it especially difficult in regaining her form, however, is that her injury coincided with her reaching her normal adult weight and height. She’s now five feet eight inches tall and quite a willowy young woman by figure skating standards.

When she experienced a growth spurt during the 2015 season, it had a disastrous effect on her debut on the senior Grand Prix circuit. The difference is that she was able to keep training then, and thus to preserve her basic technique. She recovered sufficiently to do well in the national championship, coming in fourth, and then won the Four Continents Championship, to the surprise of many. In 2016, she gave Gracie Gold a superb run for the gold medal at the nationals and seemed about to break through on the international scene, when she suffered this injury. Unfortunately, she experienced this last growth spurt while she was unable to practice her technique or to train hard for a while when she came back.

Christy Ness has been involved in her training since the fall and observers at the early training sessions have reported a marked improvement in her form since the Internationaux de France last November. Apparently, she is still lacking her triple lutz and flip jumps, which will make the PCS all the more important for her chances to medal, since she will be giving away points to her major competitors in TES. She has two beautiful programs, however, and her skating costumes are also lovely. I share mrrice's hope that she’ll skate cleanly and well before her hometown folks.

Then let be what will be.

What a great post to read!! Thanks for the insight. Go Polina!!

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

LOL, my observation of Mirai was quite different (and I too was in the arena at practice today).
To my eyes, Mirai's expression in her runthrough was a marked increase.

And notably (IMO), Mirai had Drew Meekins as well as Tom Z at the boards today.
Leads me to speculate that Mirai has been putting a special focus on working with Drew on performance??

I know that it is nothing unusual for Drew to work with World Arena/Tom Z skaters (Vincent being a prime example), but I think it is the first time Drew has been at the boards for Mirai?

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Agree that Emmy Ma was wonderful :luv17:.

Thanks for the report! I'm not familiar with Drew Meekins. Could you please provide a little more info on him?

 

[yoloaxel]

Reading Jackie Wong's practice report for today:

Karen: 3T, 3Lz3T(ur,fall), 3Lz3T(ur?), runthru (3Lz3T(ur,2ft?), 3Lo, 2A) 3Lz(step), 3Lz2T, 3Lz3T, 3Lo, 3Lo(ur,fall), 3Lo, 3F(e)

Bradie: 2A, 3T, 3Lo, 3Lz, 3Lz2T2Lo, 3Lz3T, 2A3T clean runthru (3Lz3T, 2A, 3F, 2A3T, 3Lz2T2Lo, 3Lo, 3S))

Mariah: 3Lz3T, 3S, runthru 3Lz3T 3F, marked A, 2A, 2A, 3S, 3F

 

[shiroKJ]

Tennell is out for blood