2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[NAOTMAA]

Mirai doing great in practice is absolutely nothing new. The question was always her ability to translate those great practices into actual competition

And don't forget Mirai's nationals history either. She's always great in the SP and always sets herself up well heading into the long. It's the LP that's been her nemesis and downfall (2014 being the rare exception). That's where you really have to hold your breath with her

 

[TCAngel18]

Mirai did a clean 8 triple free skate with upgraded content! 2 lutzes and 2 flips!

Can’t be 2 Lutzes AND 2 Flips, as she does the 3F/3T combo, and the 2a/3T/2t combo, and you are only allowed 2 repeated triples. It was 2 Flips and 2 Toes. Still super impressive! I think the only questionable rotation was on the 3Z/2t combo.

 

[TCAngel18]

That 3A is looking stronger and stronger. If she makes it, any thoughts on Mirai adding a 2nd 3A to her FS at the Olympics? I’d love a layout of 3A, 3F/3T, 3S, 3A/2T, 2A/3T/2T, 3Z, 3R. This would definitely be the hardest layout attempted, and typically I would say she couldn’t hack it, but girl is looking CONDITIONED.

Also, I hate those 3 turns into the 3R at the end. I get they’re a feature to add GOE, but they just seem like a recipe for underrotation. I would love her to add an interesting exit feature instead.

 

[TCAngel18]

3rd in a row HAHA. Anyone have Zhang’s warmup? I know she has a pittance of a shot at Pyeongchang, but I would love her to skate a blinder and make the 4CC team, at least. I just wish she skated with more speed, her 3R/3R is probably my favorite combo of any at these championships, and I love her spins. Is she still doing the Pearl?

 

[skylark]

Oh boy. Here we go again guys

"Ashley Wagner has already proven she belongs on team"
https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...re-skating-nationals-ashley-wagner/994214001/

I highly dislike Christine Brennan's articles and her extreme bias

Outside of the outlandish claim that Wagner has proven she belongs on the team

I'm surprised Brennan would write this, because she knows enough about the sport to know the qualification criteria (and that Ashley doesn't meet them without a Nationals medal).

Um ... actually, Brennan didn't write that sentence anywhere in the article. That sentence only appears when you hover over the link to the article. I've been a newspaper columnist, and while I don't think Brennan's editor would have given the link that "headline," it's possible that the online marketing dept. might have. The actual newspaper headline is "Cue Up Drama, Intrigue for U.S. Figure Skating Nationals."

I've read the article three times, searching for that sentence in Christine Brennan's narrative. It isn't there. And the sentiment isn't there either.

This makes me wonder about all the people quoted above (except drivingmissdaisy) who expressed outrage about the sentence and the writer. It makes me think that R.D., FarrisFan, and Amei didn't even bother to read the article first, before condemning it ... and at the same time spreading untruths that reflect badly on Ashley.

Brennan is actually making the point that the committees have been given flexibility. She's pointing out that, in consideration of who will make the best impact for another US medal, in addition to a men's medal and a dance medal ... a team medal ... they may be looking at (for example) 1. those who are a known quantity, and 2. those who have proven that they can stand up to the pressure of skating for the team, not just themselves, and 3. other factors... I won't repeat the whole article.

I am flabbergasted that people will use this as an opportunity to drum up sentiment against Ashley when they haven't even read the article. Nothing should surprise me anymore around here in this respect. But it still does.

Here's a lovely paragraph from the article: (p.s. it's a good article.)

As luck would have it, Wagner and Nagasu are back again. At 26 and 24, respectively, they are wonderful anomalies: women in a little girls’ sport. With three U.S. women’s Olympic slots available, they both could make it, and what a lovely statement that would be. https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...re-skating-nationals-ashley-wagner/994214001/​

 

[ks777]

LOL, my observation of Mirai was quite different (and I too was in the arena at practice today).
To my eyes, Mirai's expression in her runthrough was a marked increase.

And notably (IMO), Mirai had Drew Meekins as well as Tom Z at the boards today.
Leads me to speculate that Mirai has been putting a special focus on working with Drew on performance??

I know that it is nothing unusual for Drew to work with World Arena/Tom Z skaters (Vincent being a prime example), but I think it is the first time Drew has been at the boards for Mirai?

---

Agree that Emmy Ma was wonderful :luv17:.

Were you wearing a blue and white jacket?

 

[ks777]

I can't wait for Mirai to win the nationals this week!

 

[Heero Yui]

If all of them will skate clean - no falls, no URS, etc. I think this will be the order:

Gold - Ashley
Silver - Mirai
Bronze - Karen
Pewter - Mariah

But the problem is that all of them are inconsistent. So maybe, Bradie Tennell will take over the lead.
Good luck girls!

 

[brightphoton]

3rd in a row HAHA. Anyone have Zhang’s warmup? I know she has a pittance of a shot at Pyeongchang, but I would love her to skate a blinder and make the 4CC team, at least. I just wish she skated with more speed, her 3R/3R is probably my favorite combo of any at these championships, and I love her spins. Is she still doing the Pearl?

oh my god, don't even get me started with Caroline Zhang. Such a favorite skater of mine, mule-kick and all. I found her slowness charming because she chose programs that actually suited slow skating, if that make sense. I wish she could have gone to Worlds. She came so close a couple of times, and (unjustly imo) was left off the team.

She stopped doing the pearl spin somewhere around 2010.

You can see when Sandra Bezic and Scott Hamilton were starting to get into the "don't care no more" stage of their commentator career, in this 2013 clip. Caroline hadn't done the Pearl in ages, but neither of them kept up with skating.

Sandra: And this, her signature spin.
Scott: The Pearl!

:disapp:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu4fCtyzFSI&t=4m43s

 

[TCAngel18]

oh my god, don't even get me started with Caroline Zhang. Such a favorite skater of mine, mule-kick and all. I found her slowness charming because she chose programs that actually suited slow skating, if that make sense. I wish she could have gone to Worlds. She came so close a couple of times, and (unjustly imo) was left off the team.

She stopped doing the pearl spin somewhere around 2010.

You can see when Sandra Bezic and Scott Hamilton were starting to get into the "don't care no more" stage of their commentator career, in this 2013 clip. Caroline hadn't done the Pearl in ages, but neither of them kept up with skating.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu4fCtyzFSI&t=4m43s

I thought she did it at ‘12 Nationals, too? Can’t swear on that being the correct year, I just know she skated to the Dvorak Cello Concerto, pretty clean, and ended the program with it, to a standing O. Too bad, it was such a highlight!

 

[TCAngel18]

I thought she did it at ‘12 Nationals, too? Can’t swear on that being the correct year, I just know she skated to the Dvorak Cello Concerto, pretty clean, and ended the program with it, to a standing O. Too bad, it was such a highlight!

Yeah i checked. 2012 Nationals FP. She stumbled out of her opening 3F, but then skated the rest clean, ending with the Pearl.

 

[klutzy]

If all of them will skate clean - no falls, no URS, etc. I think this will be the order:

Gold - Ashley
Silver - Mirai
Bronze - Karen
Pewter - Mariah

But the problem is that all of them are inconsistent. So maybe, Bradie Tennell will take over the lead.
Good luck girls!

Bradie Tennell is the only American Lady who's broken 200 points this season; I don't see her being off the podium if everyone, including Bradie, skate clean. The U.S. team needs her seven fully rotated triples.

 

[brightphoton]

I thought she did it at ‘12 Nationals, too? Can’t swear on that being the correct year, I just know she skated to the Dvorak Cello Concerto, pretty clean, and ended the program with it, to a standing O. Too bad, it was such a highlight!

oh how could I forget, she did do the pearl then. That was even one of the times that I thought Caroline should had gotten more PCS, placed higher, and gone to Worlds. The mule kick was gone on the flip, even by normal standards, and overall her skating was a bit faster. Instead the US sent Alissa Czisny and ... Oh well, at least Ashley debuted her iconic Black Swan program.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4IFWjMlFVk&t=4m30s

I kind-of miss the spirals from that period of time. They were way too long, forced some skaters into bad positions, and garnered too many points, but now they are too short and are throw-away elements.

 

[FSLover17]

My run-through thoughts:
Mirai - She's not here to play games she's in it to win it! EIGHT CLEAN TRIPLES WITH POSITIVE GOE INCLUDING A TRIPLE AXEL! Not only that but a gorgeous practice dress showing just how in shape she is! I think we will see her in Pyeonchang.
Ashley - Not sure tbh. I do like the program but I get what she was saying, that maybe its not quite as dramatic as I would expect from her. Nevertheless, its beautiful and she can really create a moment with it. Jumps looked good and I love how the triple loop was right on the music. Still annoyed she's not doing the spins in her run-throughs tho.
Polina - I can see improvement from France. The triple-triple looked good and the double axel was ok. I'm worried for her though because she skates first in the SP but hopefully she'll go out and wow her home crowd!
Mariah - Technique looks better than it did in Osaka. This program still hasn't grown on me and I'm forced to give up the dream that she'll return to East of Eden for nationals. I'm not really sure if she'll make it on the team but she could have another Skate America moment.
Bradie - Looks really good! Jumps were great and showed good commitment to the choreography. I think she could be on the Nationals podium and in Pyeongchang.
Emmy - Don't follow juniors so this is the first time I ever saw her and she was spell-binding! Do we know why she didn't go for the junior title?
They were the only people I've had time to watch this morning but I'm interested to know what others thought.

 

[R.D.]

Um ... actually, Brennan didn't write that sentence anywhere in the article. That sentence only appears when you hover over the link to the article. I've been a newspaper columnist, and while I don't think Brennan's editor would have given the link that "headline," it's possible that the online marketing dept. might have. The actual newspaper headline is "Cue Up Drama, Intrigue for U.S. Figure Skating Nationals."

I've read the article three times, searching for that sentence in Christine Brennan's narrative. It isn't there. And the sentiment isn't there either.

This makes me wonder about all the people quoted above (except drivingmissdaisy) who expressed outrage about the sentence and the writer. It makes me think that R.D., FarrisFan, and Amei didn't even bother to read the article first, before condemning it ... and at the same time spreading untruths that reflect badly on Ashley.

Brennan is actually making the point that the committees have been given flexibility. She's pointing out that, in consideration of who will make the best impact for another US medal, in addition to a men's medal and a dance medal ... a team medal ... they may be looking at (for example) 1. those who are a known quantity, and 2. those who have proven that they can stand up to the pressure of skating for the team, not just themselves, and 3. other factors... I won't repeat the whole article.

I am flabbergasted that people will use this as an opportunity to drum up sentiment against Ashley when they haven't even read the article. Nothing should surprise me anymore around here in this respect. But it still does.

Here's a lovely paragraph from the article: (p.s. it's a good article.)

As luck would have it, Wagner and Nagasu are back again. At 26 and 24, respectively, they are wonderful anomalies: women in a little girls’ sport. With three U.S. women’s Olympic slots available, they both could make it, and what a lovely statement that would be. https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...re-skating-nationals-ashley-wagner/994214001/​

There is this blurb, near the end. Emphasis mine:

But, again, the one who almost certainly will be sent to Pyeongchang, barring a complete collapse, will be Wagner, even though she has not skated particularly well so far this season. If she does well in San Jose, she’s on the team. But even if she doesn’t, she’s a known quantity who served as captain of the most recent U.S. team in international competition, and the only American woman to win a world championship medal over the last 11 seasons (silver in 2016), so we can probably read the tea leaves here.

She – and any other U.S. woman – is unlikely to win an individual medal in South Korea. But she, along with Chen and an ice dance team or two, can help the United States to a likely team bronze medal, with the Russians (if their skaters are cleared to compete) and Canada expected to battle for the gold and silver.

She DOES attempt to make that case....

Anyway, we shall see. BTW, Wagner can avoid all this mess by simply skating well here.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Hard to say who is looking good for Junior Worlds...

Vivian Le made several mistakes, Kaitlyn Nguyen (who was really good last year in juniors) had four falls, and Tessa Hong was underrotating everything.

Starr was okay (I don't get the hype), and Alysa Liu seems like a lock for the junior title. That might be a nice JW team. Oh, also Emmy Ma, who wasn't terrible.

But I 100% want Alysa Liu on the JW team. Is she old enough to compete as a junior internationally?

Can't we stop pushing seniors who don't place high enough for senior worlds?
Is it too much to send talented junior-age skaters at the junior-level? Like other countries that do well in ladies skating, such as Russia and Japan...?
Right now, I'd want to send Alysa Liu but obviously she's not old enough, so then I'd pick Hanna Harrell and Ting Cui.

 

[Barb]

If all of them will skate clean - no falls, no URS, etc. I think this will be the order:

Gold - Ashley
Silver - Mirai
Bronze - Karen
Pewter - Mariah

But the problem is that all of them are inconsistent. So maybe, Bradie Tennell will take over the lead.
Good luck girls!

if everyone skate clean why Ashley win over Mirai? Mirai has 3a, apparently she is planning an 8-triple program. Her potential score is crazy.

 

[andromache]

Can't we stop pushing seniors who don't place high enough for senior worlds?
Is it too much to send talented junior-age skaters at the junior-level? Like other countries that do well in ladies skating, such as Russia and Japan...?
Right now, I'd want to send Alysa Liu but obviously she's not old enough, so then I'd pick Hanna Harrell and Ting Cui.

I am inclined to agree with you. That said, it's obvious that USFS doesn't do that, for whatever reason (I suppose the older ladies are just somewhat more competitive than the younger, junior ladies?) Then again, I was TICKED when Bradie was sent to JW twice, despite being age-eligible for seniors internationally, but maybe that experience has helped her in the long run?

Hanna could plausibly make the nationals podium after the SP, but Ting is definitely not, which is unfortunate because she's so promising, but there's really no argument to be made to send her to JW.

This would be a good year to send two junior ladies to JW instead of senior/junior ladies, since if Emmy/Starr/Vivian/others skate well enough at Nationals, they will presumably go to 4CCs.

 

[mrrice]

Looking at the skate order I'm really worried for Polina. It's great that she's a local favorite but, if she doesn't go clean I think she'll get dumped by the judges. I hope she skates the way she did in her last Nationals SP in 2016.

 

[andromache]

Looking at the skate order I'm really worried for Polina. It's great that she's a local favorite but, if she doesn't go clean I think she'll get dumped by the judges. I hope she skates the way she did in her last Nationals SP in 2016.

Polina didn't practice lutz or flip in practice sessions. I'm sure she'll receive some decent PCS, but she isn't going to have the TES for top 6 this year, I would imagine. At least having her go first means people have a reason to show up on time to the event.

I just don't think Polina is committed to skating anymore. Would Evgenia Medvedeva have gone this long without regaining her lutz and flip after suffering injury and time off? I don't think so. Caroline Zhang underwent incredibly intensive hip surgery a few years ago and is back and better than ever. Nathan has tons of quads after suffering injuries and having surgery. Skaters who really want it are able to make shockingly quick comebacks after injuries and other problems.

It's just disappointing. I hope she becomes more motivated next season or just decides to retire.