2017-18 State of U.S. Men's Figure Skating | Page 90 | Golden Skate

2017-18 State of U.S. Men's Figure Skating

My heart breaks all over again for Josh.:cry:

To think what has deprived us of watching Josh, but may have also deprived Josh of joy in living.....:scowl: Figure Skating needs an NFL style concussion protocol. As in yesterday.

And Josh is yet another class act among our US men.
 
My heart breaks all over again for Josh.:cry:

To think what has deprived us of watching Josh, but may have also deprived Josh of joy in living.....:scowl: Figure Skating needs an NFL style concussion protocol. As in yesterday.

And Josh is yet another class act among our US men.

Not that a concussion protocol even helps the NFL. Just a few months ago, a football player got visibly concussed and kept on playing.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/new...policy-vs-cardinals/thns59dkop011l213pz7vt5vm

Rachael Flatt and her mom have been trying to lobby the US skating fed into taking concussions seriously, increase education, and make a protocol. Not much luck yet.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/01/19/concussion-protocols-not-uniform-at-skating-rinks/
 
Not that a concussion protocol even helps the NFL. Just a few months ago, a football player got visibly concussed and kept on playing.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/new...policy-vs-cardinals/thns59dkop011l213pz7vt5vm

Rachael Flatt and her mom have been trying to lobby the US skating fed into taking concussions seriously, increase education, and make a protocol. Not much luck yet.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/01/19/concussion-protocols-not-uniform-at-skating-rinks/

A protocol doesn't mean that a team won't try to skirt it, that's true.

But I can attest that teams *do* follow them, even to their detriment, where my Eagles almost lost one of their stars, Zach Ertz, because they were following the protocols. It's better than nothing.:confused2:
 
A protocol doesn't mean that a team won't try to skirt it, that's true.

But I can attest that teams *do* follow them, even to their detriment, where my Eagles almost lost one of their stars, Zach Ertz, because they were following the protocols. It's better than nothing.:confused2:

It's true, a concussion protocol is better than nothing, which is what the USFSA has. Well they have a set of guidelines in a pdf but it has no teeth and it's just guidelines, suggestions.

The Seahawks did get fined $100k for breaking concussion protocol. I wonder if Josh Farris's rink followed good practices, and if not, they should probably get fined too
 
Great to hear from Josh even though his experience has been so difficult. His mother seems to be a wonderful person as well.

I hope that he continues to recover. He looks overall well - I wonder if he's had other treatments that were covered by health insurance.

I apologize if this seems shallow, but I do like the facial hair. It's much better than the stubble that he has had. :yes:
 
Ross has withdrawn from 4CC and Grant is replacing him per announcement from USFS

Well, I guess my desire to see cute Jason and Grant photos will come true, but I'm sad for Ross. I was hoping he could bounce back and show us another awesome performance.
 
It seemed to me that Grant's treatment was even worse than Ross's. Surprised that he's going, hopefully he'll pull the FS he had intended for nats.
 
US Fed created an avoidable controversy with what they did. Should have just gone with the result. This National was pretty much just an audition for the 2 spots to go with Nathan to OG. Why create this drama to accomodate somebody who went even get a sniff of the podium rather than send someone who in all honesty can put out a performance that is at least respectable in comparison to what the top guys do. I thought with Wagner not being name they'd turn a corner and not send someone without the required skill and ability. In all honestly Wagner is far more deserving of the spot than Rippon seeing she can at least match the BV of her fellow ladies unlike Rippon who's best TES can't even equal the BV of the medal contenders.
 
Well, I guess my desire to see cute Jason and Grant photos will come true, but I'm sad for Ross. I was hoping he could bounce back and show us another awesome performance.

I'm glad that Grant will get to compete for a pretty major international title.

I don't know if he's announced any plans or not, but if this is his competitive swan song, a competition like this is a good place for final bows.
 
US Fed created an avoidable controversy with what they did. Should have just gone with the result.

You think there wouldn't have been a controversy if they had sent Ross?

You think no one remembers that they didn't send Mirai four years ago? His argument was weaker than hers. It would certainly have come up in the press. People would have argued a double standard--that he had no right to go when she wasn't selected. We would have had controversy either way. We always have controversy. It's one of the press's favorite ways of drumming up interest in the Olympic Games.

I wish they would go back to making Nationals the deciding event myself. But controversy is inevitable.
 
I've honestly heard more about Jimmy Ma and his short program in the press than about the team decision. I mean a few folks, like Phil Hersh, is bringing it up, but I don't see the overwhelming outrage we saw with Ashley being chosen over Mirai.

Honestly USFS really surprised and puzzled me with their decisions here. I had always though body of work is like an extraneous circumstance, like to prevent a medalist from staying home if he has a bad day.

I hope USFS settles on some sort of moderation -- they've gone from one extreme -- straight Nationals results -- to the other -- body of work.
 
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I've honestly heard more about Jimmy Ma and his short program in the press than about the team decision. I mean a few folks, like Phil Hersh, is bringing it up, but I don't see the overwhelming outrage we saw with Ashley being chosen over Mirai.

Honestly USFS really surprised and puzzled me with their decisions here. I had always though body of work is like an extraneous circumstance, like to prevent a medalist from staying home if he has a bad day.

I hope USFS settles on some sort of moderation -- they've gone from one extreme -- straight Nationals results -- to the other -- body of work.

This is kinda my issue. I thought the idea was that Nationals was still supposed to be a very major competition, but it seems it is being weighted very lightly.


To compare to academia... I don't think a final should be 90% of your grade, but I also don't think it should only be worth 10%. There is a lot of room for balance in the middle here.
 
This is kinda my issue. I thought the idea was that Nationals was still supposed to be a very major competition, but it seems it is being weighted very lightly.


To compare to academia... I don't think a final should be 90% of your grade, but I also don't think it should only be worth 10%. There is a lot of room for balance in the middle here.

I think the biggest problem is that the weight of Nationals varied among different skaters. Apparently Ross's (relatively poor) international record mattered more than 2nd at Nationals. But Vincent's 3rd place at Nationals seem to override his so-so fall.

And most times, 6th place at Nationals wouldn't even get you 4CC, let alone Worlds/Olympics 1st alternate -- so Jason's poor free skate at Nationals didn't seem to entirely override an decent BOW (if not amazing). It's not as egregious as sending Maxim Kovtun to Worlds after a 5th place finish, but it certainly raised eyebrows.
 
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I think the biggest problem is that the weight of Nationals varied among different skaters. Apparently Ross's (relatively poor) international record mattered more than 2nd at Nationals. But Vincent's 3rd place at Nationals seem to override his so-so fall.

And most times, 6th place at Nationals wouldn't even get you 4CC, let alone Worlds/Olympics 1st alternate -- so Jason's poor free skate at Nationals didn't seem to entirely override an decent BOW (if not amazing). It's not as egregious as sending Maxim Kovtun to Worlds after a 5th place finish, but it certainly raised eyebrows.

Maybe it is more that they only wanted a "Good enough" fall? and Vincent's was and Ross's was not?

Jason... was just weird to me. I love Jason... but his fall has not been great and nationals was not an improvement. He normally improves over the season, but this season he has almost struggled more as time goes by. I am not sure what good putting him as 1st alt does at this point, frankly I think something is wrong and he needs to get that figured out, not be first alt. Something needs addressing - even if it is just taking a LONG vacation and looking at what went wrong, something needs addressing. And sooner is always better.

And while we are on the subject... Max Aaron as 3rd alt is equally strange in my eyes. Yes he medaled on the GP, and has long been respectable, but he was 9th at nationals... the guys who beat him here are also respectable. Tim Dolensky has faced Max three times this season and come out ahead two out of three... I think I'd have given him at least one of Max's grants.

Frankly i think this is all just another argument they should not announce it all so soon. I think after, what was it 4 hours of debate?, they were just too tired to think straight and frankly may have have physiologically needed sleep before making a final decision.

Well one upside... Ross is a heck of a lot more of "a name" now then he was before. He might be able to profit from this in the long wrong. Nothing wrong with the lovable underdog.
 
On a more happier, non BOW note, did people see that Barry Jenkins, the director and write of Moonlight is now stanning for Jimmy Ma -- and making sweatshirts in his honor?!

https://twitter.com/BarryJenkins/status/951855863953686528

Apparently, in a mode of writing procrastination, he watched Jimmy Ma's SP and decided to make the sweatshirt.

I want one.

Jimmy Ma's seriously having the BEST MONTH EVER.
 
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Maybe it is more that they only wanted a "Good enough" fall? and Vincent's was and Ross's was not?

Jason... was just weird to me. I love Jason... but his fall has not been great and nationals was not an improvement. He normally improves over the season, but this season he has almost struggled more as time goes by. I am not sure what good putting him as 1st alt does at this point, frankly I think something is wrong and he needs to get that figured out, not be first alt. Something needs addressing - even if it is just taking a LONG vacation and looking at what went wrong, something needs addressing. And sooner is always better.

And while we are on the subject... Max Aaron as 3rd alt is equally strange in my eyes. Yes he medaled on the GP, and has long been respectable, but he was 9th at nationals... the guys who beat him here are also respectable. Tim Dolensky has faced Max three times this season and come out ahead two out of three... I think I'd have given him at least one of Max's grants.

Frankly i think this is all just another argument they should not announce it all so soon. I think after, what was it 4 hours of debate?, they were just too tired to think straight and frankly may have have physiologically needed sleep before making a final decision.

Well one upside... Ross is a heck of a lot more of "a name" now then he was before. He might be able to profit from this in the long wrong. Nothing wrong with the lovable underdog.

Honestly, I think if you take feelings out of the matter, it isnt that hard to justify what they did.

I did a quick experiment, applying the criteria to each guy in the top 6 except Grant (sorry Grant!).

Rules:

Per published criteria, all events in each tier are equally weighted.

My arbitrarily chosen weights:

Tier 1 event = 3, Tier 2 Event = 2, Tier 3 Event = 1.

Each medal (any Tier) = +1.
Each stellar performance (Ross Nats, Jason Worlds, Vincent JWC, Nathan 4CC) = +2.
Each abysmal performance (Jason 2018 Nats) = -2.
Consistency (Adam) = +1.

Results:

Nathan: 28
Jason: 18
Adam: 14
Vincent: 14
Ross: 11

I have no idea how they actually weighted the tiers and intangibles (such as a really good or bad performance). Maybe top 5 should be worth more than 6 or below. Maybe the value of a Tier medal should be greater than a Tier 2 or 3 medal. But that was too much work for me!

Anyway, the problem for Ross seems to have been that he simply didn’t do that many qualifying events, and the only one he medaled at was Nats. Out of ten possible events, he only did 5 - and 3 of the 5 were in Tier 3. Unless his silver medal at Nats is worth, say, +10 (in which case you’d have to say Vincent’s bronze was maybe worth +6 or 8), it’s hard to make him come out ahead of Vincent.

As to Jason, well by rights under my system, he should have been on the team. The fact that he wasn’t suggests to me that his really poor performance and 6th place finish at Nats were just too much for his body of work to overcome; putting him on the team would simply have caused too big an uproar.
 
It's not just a matter of how many events Ross attended. He went to Finlandia and Skate America. If he had defeated Adam at those events, we would be having a very different conversation right now. Adam did fewer events and hit fewer bullet points than Jason. Adam just won two of the important ones. Vincent defeated Adam twice. It stood Vincent in good stead.
 
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