That was the worst SP ever for US women (OG)

[jenaj]

Uh, he went undefeated in a field where many of the top men were absent. Context matters.

He beat both Shoma Uno and Yuzuru Hanyu this past season.

 

[Ophelia]

^Not when they were skating at their best. Hanyu was scoring >30 points below his PB at that time. Rachel Flatt beat Yuna Kim during 2010 season. I didn't see people screeching about Flatt back then.

Again, context matters.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

^Not when they were skating at their best.

The current state of the men is that they never skate their best, though.

 

[narcissa]

The current state of the men is that they never skate their best, though.

Yes, only when it counts

 

[Ophelia]

The current state of the men is that they never skate their best, though.

They skate close enough at the biggest events, which is what matters and the correct way to peak.

 

[mrrice]

That's why I said "of course, if American ladies were to skate clean." Like can you please read the entire sentence......All I'm saying is, PCS for American ladies shouldn't be that far from the Russians, and if they were to skate clean, their scores should be much closer, but it hasn't happened because they cannot skate clean when it matters and are receiving significantly less PCS for their performance (e.g. Karen)

My response was more about this comment......"The gap would be closer if Russian girls did not receive inflated/undeserved PCS. 37 PCS for Zagitova is just SHAME"

The Russian girls may not be your cup of tea but, to say that their PCS are inflated is not accurate. There's a reason that Evgenia is a 2 time World Champion who has medaled in every event she's entered for the past 2 years. The judges are all seeing something great in her skating and maybe you're missing it. I'm not trying to be mean, I just think you should take a second look and try to see what the judges are seeing.

 

[narcissa]

They skate close enough at the biggest events, which is what matters.

That's probably what makes a "top" skater in this field.

 

[R.D.]

I'm not sure this is the new normal for the US skaters.

On that we may have to agree to disagree...

We’ve been in this “down” cycle since, what...2008 or so?

We aren’t contending in 2018. We didn’t contend in 2014. We fell short in 2010.

If that’s not long enough to be considered a new normal - I’m not sure what is

 

[narcissa]

My response was more about this comment......"The gap would be closer if Russian girls did not receive inflated/undeserved PCS. 37 PCS for Zagitova is just SHAME"

The Russian girls may not be your cup of tea but, to say that their PCS are inflated is not accurate. There's a reason that Evgenia is a 2 time World Champion who has medaled in every event she's entered for the past 2 years. The judges are all seeing something great in her skating and maybe you're missing it. I'm not trying to be mean, I just think you take a second look and try to see what the judges are seeing.

Orrrrr maybe she's not and the judging is flawed. That could be a possibility too.

 

[el henry]

Dear heavens, a medal is *that* important?:shocked::confused2:

I do not follow the ladies. I don’t care if 85 Russians medal, 85 Americans medal, or if 85 Chileans medal. It says nothing about the country, about the people, or about anything. Except that they have 85 good skaters.

For the disciplines I do follow, I care if skaters I like are happy with their results.:agree: if the skills thatI value are not valued by the judging system, so be it. I’m not going to change my favorites based on medals, sheesh, that would be pretty silly

And for the skaters I like, I care if they do well for their sake, I care if their skills are valued for their sake, and I care if they develop into happy, healthy well-rounded adults with lives to live after skating. Which no amount of world medals will make right. ( c.f. Christopher Bowman. I adored his skating back in the day. And if fewer World medals and a more balanced existence would have driven his demons away, then to heck with medals:dev2: And no, there is no proof would have. But as an example of the ultimate non-importance of it all...)

Just my opinion

 

[Tolstoj]

Each of these ladies is just happy to be at the games. None of them expected a medal.

For sure, but USFSA has to see the results as a whole and results in ladies are getting worse at each Olympic cycle. (in this case i'd still wait and see what happen in the FS though)

I guess you have never looked at results from US Nationals at the Intermediate and Novice levels. Many skaters at these levels already have triples and combos and many are as young as 12. In fact the current JUNIOR champion Alysa Liu is too young for the JGP this coming fall. Her FS: 2a, 3z+3t, 3f+1lo+3s, 3lo, 3z, 3f, 2a+2t

I know her, and yes she looks promising, but she wouldn't probably make the top 10 at Junior Nationals in Russia (if you compare the scores side-by-side she would be 12th below Elizaveta Nugumanova which would be very generous to Alysa) or even in the top 5 in Japan. And yet most of these skaters have vastly better skating skills, transitions,...

She is definitely an exception, the rest of her competitors at nationals weren't nowhere near her, and in fact she won the title by almost 20 points.

 

[cruzceleste]

Nathan has not risen to the top yet, and right now he shows signs of going the GG route, which isn't encouraging.

Awwww, some times you fall in a competition before getting up, Nathan will be fine. And Gracie had have a lot of personal problems that would be difficult to deal for everyone, so let´s not drag her into this

 

[russianfan]

I guess you have never looked at results from US Nationals at the Intermediate and Novice levels. Many skaters at these levels already have triples and combos and many are as young as 12. In fact the current JUNIOR champion Alysa Liu is too young for the JGP this coming fall. Her FS: 2a, 3z+3t, 3f+1lo+3s, 3lo, 3z, 3f, 2a+2t

And then just compare it with the content which Trusova tried today: two quads and three 3-3's. This is where the difference is.
Though I have to say I feel a bit uncomfortable watching those Sasha's quads, because of how dangerous it is.

 

[MiRé]

My response was more about this comment......"The gap would be closer if Russian girls did not receive inflated/undeserved PCS. 37 PCS for Zagitova is just SHAME"

The Russian girls may not be your cup of tea but, to say that their PCS are inflated is not accurate. There's a reason that Evgenia is a 2 time World Champion who has medaled in every event she's entered for the past 2 years. The judges are all seeing something great in her skating and maybe you're missing it. I'm not trying to be mean, I just think you take a second look and try to see what the judges are seeing.

Evgenia is a 2 time World Champion whos UR and wrong edge on her Lutz has been ignored for 2 years. And you're still missing my point. Karen Chen should be receiving equal, "inflated", PCS if Zagitova were to receive such thing. And you're (like many others before) mentioning the "medals" but failed to explain where in the rule book it says winning medals = rise in PCS.

 

[skatedreamer]

Dear heavens, a medal is *that* important?:shocked::confused2:

I do not follow the ladies. I don’t care if 85 Russians medal, 85 Americans medal, or if 85 Chileans medal. It says nothing about the country, about the people, or about anything. Except that they have 85 good skaters.

For the disciplines I do follow, I care if skaters I like are happy with their results.:agree: if the skills thatI value are not valued by the judging system, so be it. I’m not going to change my favorites based on medals, sheesh, that would be pretty silly

And for the skaters I like, I care if they do well for their sake, I care if their skills are valued for their sake, and I care if they develop into happy, healthy well-rounded adults with lives to live after skating. Which no amount of world medals will make right. ( c.f. Christopher Bowman. I adored his skating back in the day. And if fewer World medals and a more balanced existence would have driven his demons away, then to heck with medals:dev2: And no, there is no proof would have. But as an example of the ultimate non-importance of it all...)

Just my opinion

Even though you're not following the women, I'm giving this a like because IMO the rest of what you said is spot-on! :agree:

 

[temadd]

. Quote Originally Posted by el henry View Post
Dear heavens, a medal is *that* important?

I do not follow the ladies. I don’t care if 85 Russians medal, 85 Americans medal, or if 85 Chileans medal. It says nothing about the country, about the people, or about anything. Except that they have 85 good skaters.

For the disciplines I do follow, I care if skaters I like are happy with their results. if the skills thatI value are not valued by the judging system, so be it. I’m not going to change my favorites based on medals, sheesh, that would be pretty silly

And for the skaters I like, I care if they do well for their sake, I care if their skills are valued for their sake, and I care if they develop into happy, healthy well-rounded adults with lives to live after skating. Which no amount of world medals will make right. ( c.f. Christopher Bowman. I adored his skating back in the day. And if fewer World medals and a more balanced existence would have driven his demons away, then to heck with medals And no, there is no proof would have. But as an example of the ultimate non-importance of it all...)

Just my opinion - - end of el henry's post

I hate it when NBC announces the medal count. Honestly I don't care which country wins the most medals. That is not what the Olympics is about.

 

[Blades of Passion]

If Karen skated her best for an entire season, and not just once or twice a year, she'd be getting high PCS.

Hard to do when your jumps are huge and not pre-rotated.

The rules need to change to stop giving out so much GOE to Medvedeva quality jumps and to examine those jump takeoffs more closely. Her double axel is 0 or +1 GOE quality at best, her other jumps are never deserving of a +3, and her combos should be getting a < call at times.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

This was not unexpected for the US women. Even a typical clean SP from Tennell or a miraculously clean SP from Chen would have kept them out of the final flight. Mirai had a shot, but needed a 3A, which was simply too much to ask (although it was a valiant well-rotated attempt).

There is such an unfair pressure on the US ladies this time around given how dominant Russia/Canada/Japan are, and how (relatively) inexperienced Tennell/Chen are, and how Nagasu is on the other end, and is no spring chicken herself.

 

[Mathman]

Yup. Sure was [the worst ever showing by U.S. ladies].

And yes, the US had little chance from the get-go. As I’ve said elsewhere - I haven’t been this disinterested in an Olympics in a LONG time. Heck, I didn’t even stay up to watch the whole thing last night, shut it down after Medvedeva I think. ...

Here's my advice. Expand your horizons. Figure skating has become an international sport where patriotism rears its head for only two weeks every four years. Find an international star that you like (may I recommend Kaori Matsamoto?) and follow that person's career. :yes:

By the way, I couldn't help but notice last night that the skater representing Slovakia was from New York, the skater representing Brazil was from (the U.S. state of) Georgia, the skater representing Finland was from Tennessee and the skater representing Switzerland was from Connecticut.

 

[Ophelia]

There is such an unfair pressure on the US ladies this time around given how dominant Russia/Canada/Japan are, and how (relatively) inexperienced Tennell/Chen are, and how Nagasu is on the other end, and is no spring chicken herself.

Soon, Korea will be added to that group.