Boyang Jin | Page 38 | Golden Skate

Boyang Jin

Metis said:
Maybe he doesn’t feel as comfortable with the 3A and there’s a conscious choice to avoid forcing transitions there? Best excuse I can come up with as general counsel to Lucifer. Not sure either. Might also be a fear of xcopying Hanyu and coming out looking worse for the attempt, which would be dumb if true.

I wonder if what we see as the obvious gets overlooked due to conserving/planning energy expenditures in the free, since he has those enormous jumps and that 4Lz that covers half the rink. Part of what I dislike so much about the SW program is how it doesn’t flow so much as it’s segmented into “you will use this much energy here, leaving you with just enough to complete the step sequence where you’ll recover in time for...” — you know what I mean? It feels heavily segmented even when it’s performed flawlessly. He could make the revision suggested and get the PCS jump for it, but I sometimes get the sense that’s not how his team thinks about improving his artistry.
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Shoma does it without fear of copying Yuzu. And Yuzu's is better.

Boyang has a nice Ina Bauer, too, he holds it in his SP, unlike Zag and Med.

Oh, and why do a difficult entry if he's not comfortable? His hit-rate is pretty high with the difficult entry, I think.

Also, if he has a difficult entry for his 3A, I'm even more puzzled by his GOEs, compared to Shoma's and Nathan's.

He could change his entry into his 4Ts by doing turns or something into them to make the program more "full", but what's the point? He'll get even lower GOEs on them.

But he could do a fast turn on deep edges to get that SS mark. Hmmm...

(Also move the 3 jump combo to the second half, please. Replace with solo 3A, with suggested entry. To the music, of course.)
 
chopinskate said:
Shoma does it without fear of copying Yuzu. And Yuzu's is better.

Boyang has a nice Ina Bauer, too, he holds it in his SP, unlike Zag and Med.

Also, if he has a difficult entry for his 3A (and he also seems to have a difficult entry into his 4Ts), I'm even more puzzled by his GOEs, compared to Shoma's and Nathan's.
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Yeah, I don’t actually have a good answer.

His GOEs have frustrated me for a long time, even when I wasn’t exactly a fan of his. Personal pet theory/untested hypothesis is that being tagged as a “jumper” hurts your GOE and PCS values, as that label is harder to work off than “inconsistent on jumps,” “can’t land the axel,” etc. Would require building a database and doing a regression analysis of GOEs for the same element for those in the “technical but not artistic,” “artistic but not technical,” and the control group. Probably too noisy to find anything significant but a null finding is also knowledge.

Though both Shoma and Nathan are generally considered to be more artistically proficient and somehow “better” skaters than Boyang, so... self-demonstrating point? I don’t understand their GOEs at times (I mean, I think you saw Chen’s GOEs break my brain in real time), but they don’t have the “it’s cute that you can jump, but can you emote?” rap as bad as Boyang does... and while that shouldn’t make a difference, it probably does. In no universe obeying logic should Fernández get +3 GOE on a 3A and Hanyu not, but that happened! And I suspect that variance and underscoring has a lot to do with how much the judges like a given program and skater, as well as GOEs being vulnerable to the same biases that PCS can be.

What do the judges want, a 4Lz off uninterrupted connecting steps? [emoji849]
 
chopinskate said:
He got good GOE for his 4Lz-3T, so there's that. I think almost 2 points? Hope he breaks 20 for it this time.
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He just needs to register as Nathan Chen and all his problems are solved.

Agree with the edits, though putting the triple jump combo in the first half might be for stamina reasons? Part of why I’m hoping backhalf bonuses are limited to a specific number of jumps. The min-max potential will still be there, but it won’t be a game of who can skate with Lactic Acid Legs best.

Transitions in general could be improved, though I wonder if that’s next season’s goal (since his artistry overall is definitely improved) or if it’s a case of bad program design. Too bad the only Chinese I can write is a proverb and “It’s okay, I won’t wear heels” or we could try to send him your suggestions. [emoji23]
 
At this point the only complaint I have is his not being able to connect movement across his skating, and TR. And LPs. I never even thought his SS was as bad as some made it out to be.

though putting the triple jump combo in the first half might be for stamina reasons?
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The system needs to award Yuzu/Boyang quality jumps more. Smaller, "more consistent" jumps are easier to land in the second-half, and in general.
 
RemyRose said:
Well then he is stuck with Lori and whatever recycled material she will come up with for him :slink:
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Also, if he must, then let's hope it's not Firebird. Didn't work out for Evan Lycasek. Didn't work out for Gracie Gold.

It would be hilarious if he cheeses it up for an EX though.

icedinn said:
THIS. I'd love if Boyang went to David Wilson. I quite like his work.
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Can't really agree with that, but it'd be great if he tries someone else, for sure.
 
icedinn said:
THIS. I'd love if Boyang went to David Wilson. I quite like his work.
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I think David would be able to bring out a whole different side of Boyang. I would be very surprised though if this happens. I still think the Fed will stick with Lori though.
 
Lori insists on giving the Chinese men gimmicky and hokey programs every single season and it just screams of laziness to me. She has a one size fits all approach when it comes to choreographing for the Chinese skaters and they deserve far better. Her programs for Han Yan were absolutely unbearable. Someone who's as naturally talented as Han shouldn't have to skate to goofy programs to rack up points. His skating skills are almost on par with Patrick Chan's and Lori's programs did him a great disservice by not making his amazing edge quality and speed the focal points. I hope Boyang finds someone who's better at creating programs that are better at highlighting his strengths.
 
WineHerUp said:
Lori insists on giving the Chinese men gimmicky and hokey programs every single season and it just screams of laziness to me. She has a one size fits all approach when it comes to choreographing for the Chinese skaters and they deserve far better. Her programs for Han Yan were absolutely unbearable. Someone who's as naturally talented as Han shouldn't have to skate to goofy programs to rack up points. His skating skills are almost on par with Patrick Chan's and Lori's program did him a great disservice by not making his amazing edge quality and speed the focal points. I hope Boyang finds someone who's better at creating programs that are better at highlighting his strengths.
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And I think the same about David Wilson, too. :palmf: Less so, but he works better for more balletic skaters, which Boyang isn't.

Just a different choreographer. They can look to Japan. They can look to other people in Canada. Jeff Buttle?

(Though Han Yan is being sold as the "bad boy romantic" instead of the "goofy one".)
 
chopinskate said:
And I think the same about David Wilson, too. :palmf: Less so, but he works better for more balletic skaters, which Boyang isn't.

Just a different choreographer. They can look to Japan. They can look to other people in Canada. Jeff Buttle?
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Oh David Wilson is definitely guilty of this as well, but I feel like he's a bit better about picking music that suits each skater. Jeff Buttle would be an absolute dream because he always manages to bring something new to the table.
 
chopinskate said:
And I think the same about David Wilson, too. :palmf: Less so, but he works better for more balletic skaters, which Boyang isn't.

Just a different choreographer. They can look to Japan. They can look to other people in Canada. Jeff Buttle?
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David Wilson worked amazingly for Sui /Han in the 14-15 season. Those programs are still my favourite they ever did and were definitely not balletic. Lori isn't bad per se with Boyang at least pertaining to short programs but I agree with WineHerUp about what she gave to Han Yan. Just, ugh...
Jeffrey Buttle seems interesting, and how about Lambiel? Maybe something could work out?
 
icedinn said:
David Wilson worked amazingly for Sui /Han in the 14-15 season. Those programs are still my favourite they ever did and were definitely not balletic. Lori isn't bad per se with Boyang at least pertaining to short programs but I agree with WineHerUp about what she gave to Han Yan. Just, ugh...
Jeffrey Buttle seems interesting, and how about Lambiel? Maybe something could work out?
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I'd classify S/H as balletic, or at least contemporary/modern-ish. Far cry from Boyang. But really, David for LP over Lori, any day.

(Though I don't remember the programs, and maybe you're right, in which case I hope they do it.)
 
Misha Ge? Not because he and Boyang are on the same wavelength, but because he’s a skater’s skater and might be in a good position to draw out Boyang’s best.

Buttle is also a good pick, but not with full creative control/solo.

This is actually an instance in which Weir would be useful, as Boyang needs someone with the knowledge who’s also living in the current era... take that as you will.
 
Misha's all about them gimmicks, too, though. :ohwell:

Buttle because he's all about those transitions.

Tom Dickson? El Tango de Roxanne for Yuna might still be my favourite SP of hers.
 
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