Top 10 of all time per event post Pyeonchang

[stolbovadivas]

plushyfan dearie, if you dont like my ranking of Plushenko which is perfectly fine, please make your own mens list, or list for all 4 categories if you wish. That is what I am wanting people to do after all.

Feel free to just comment and not make a ranking list if you wish too, but it is funny how a few of those who thus far have all kinds of gripes with my rankings, cant be bothered to make their own.

 

[stolbovadivas]

I think he meant individual OGM...I wouldn't put team gold in the same caliber as individual gold.

Yes absolutely. I do give some value to the team medals, despite the good fortune of some to be from stronger countries, but it would be silly to give them equal recognition to an individual one. It is the equivalent of the approximate value of a relay medal or gold in track, swimming, or skiing.

 

[yexiu]

Yes absolutely. I do give some value to the team medals, despite the good fortune of some to be from stronger countries, but it would be silly to give them equal recognition to an individual one. It is the equivalent of the approximate value of a relay medal or gold in track, swimming, or skiing.

I do agree, except I don't even think Team gold is as important as relay in track or swimming. Just because the fact that the countries are not even sending out the best skaters for Team...except for Canada.

 

[stolbovadivas]

I do agree, except I don't even think Team gold is as important as relay in track or swimming. Just because the fact that the countries are not even sending out the best skaters for Team...except for Canada.

Perhaps true, especialy as it is a much newer concept, and not even included in Worlds and regular competitions as it is in those sports (yet, hopefully someday)

 

[plushyfan]

I think he meant individual OGM...I wouldn't put team gold in the same caliber as individual gold.

right, but Plushenko has one individual gold and two silvers. In this case Chan has no gold...

Calm down Plushenko said Hanyu is the best...

 

[Spirals for Miles]

IJS only:

Ladies:
1. Medvedeva (most successful under IJS with all gold medals minus OGM and CoC, but has OSM)
2. Asada (3A queen, OSM, 3 world titles)
3. Zagitova (most dominant senior debut ever?)
4. Kostner (longest IJS career?)
5. Kim (OGM, 2 world titles, etc. but didn't compete much towards the end of her career and never had the dominant season that Medvedeva has had twice)

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

IJS only:

Ladies:
1. Medvedeva (most successful under IJS with all gold medals minus OGM and CoC, but has OSM)
2. Kostner (longest IJS career?)
3. Kim (OGM, 2 world titles, etc. but didn't compete much towards the end of her career and never had the dominant season that Medvedeva has had twice)
4. Asada (3A queen, OSM, 3 world titles)
5. Zagitova (most dominant senior debut ever?)

I'd have Kim first for the IJS list, because the OGM is an important achievement and the subsequent OSM shows her longevity near the top of the sport. I'm also not sure if she ever lost a head-to-head against Caro, so it would be questionable to rank Yuna behind the Italian. None of these compare to the results of past champions like Witt or Henie, but figure skating was a far different sport and it was easier to place high if you performed figures well.

 

[Mrs. P]

I'd have Kim first for the IJS list, because the OGM is an important achievement and the subsequent OSM shows her longevity near the top of the sport. I'm also not sure if she ever lost a head-to-head against Caro, so it would be questionable to rank Yuna behind the Italian. None of these compare to the results of past champions like Witt or Henie, but figure skating was a far different sport and it was easier to place high if you performed figures well.

Also Yuna has never been off the podium her entire international career. I'd put Yuna above Evgenia for the OGM. I think Evgenia - who hasn't been off the podium either -- has some time, however, to pass Yuna for that spot (as Alina does)

 

[plushyfan]

I knew my Plushenko ranking would get the most criticism of any of my rankings in any discipline but I rated him down there since:

1.

IMO he does not epitomize the complete skater the way Hanyu, Browning, Chan, Takahashi, Yagudin, Fernandez, and many others do. Too jump oriented.

Is not complet skater? Really? Fernadez , Chan, Takahashi, never beat him. Yagudin beat him but as I said Yagudin was 2 years and 8 months older and Plushenko beat him not once. Plushenko was a prodigy. Yagudin wasn't better spinner, better jumper. Check it. When do you learn no one could win with only jumps...Right?

2.

He was pretty much dominated in his rivalry with Yagudin until Yagudin got hurt. Worth noting Yagudin with less than half as long a career with a career ending hip injury at 21, still won more combined world and individual Olympic golds than Plushenko (5 to 4). This is telling to say the least.

As I said when Yagudin beat Plushenko last time ( at SLC) he was only 19. That is unfair to forget it. I help you


Plushenko: 15 y. o ( 1998)- silver at ECH, bronz at WCH

Yagudin:15( 1995) y. o- nothing

Plushenko 16 y. o (1999)- silver at ECH, silver at WCH

Yagudin 16(1996). y.o-nothing

Plushenko 17 .y o- gold at ECH,

Yagudin- 17 .y o- bronz at WCH

Plushenko 18. y. o- gold at WCH, gold at ECH,

Yagudin 18. y. o- gold at WCH, gold at ECH

You smartly forgot about the GPF victories and the National championships

3. Lets face it, not his fault, but the competition he won his major titles from 2003-2006 was pretty much a joke.

Oh, I understand Sandhu, Lambiel, Weiss, Buttle, Takahashi, Goeble, Honda, Joubert, etc were very weak skaters...

4. I cant think of any memorable contribution he made to the sport. Even technically he didnt bring anything new or elevate things to a new level beyond his consistency. Goebel was the one who did 3 quads, others were the ones to bring a quad lutz and other quads.

Oh...you don't know he was the first skater who landed in 4-3-2, 4-3-3, 3A-1/2lo-3F, he was the first male skater who did Biellman spin and donut spin. He landed in 4S in Samara 2004. He was the youngest male skater ever who received perfect score 6.0 for his presentation( 16. y.o at NHK Trophy ) He had many records, he is the only one skater who competed under both system and can win.

Plushenko has impact on FS. You don't forget Vancouver. After the scandal ISU has changed the rules. He is the role model of the current top skaters: Hanyu, Fernandez, Chen, Boyang, Medvedeva, Amodio started the skating because of him, Kevin Reynolds and many more!

Interesting... what was Yagudin's contributions? Nothing?

5. As much as he achieved, his achievements dont stand out in a record way in a historic sense either. He didnt win a 2nd OGM as Hanyu did, doesnt have a record number of world or even European titles, etc...

I answered you..you didn't know his results-- LOL! But you made a ranking. Yes he didn't win second individual gold but he has two silvers from other OGs

Has Yagudin second gold? or Boitano? Or Browning has any medal from OG?????

 

[plushyfan]

I didnt say his achievements were not great. They are just not historic the way Hanyu and his 2nd OGM (which Plushenko couldnt manage, even in the splatfest Vancouver event which produced probably the weakest Oly mens Champion in history), Yagudin having more world titles in a much shorter time and being the first in many years to hold the Olympic, European, World crowns (and first to hold all those plus the GPF) all at once, or even Browning and his 4 worlds in 5 years. That is just of the recent ones. And since his skating is not trailblazing or leaving an intangible mark in either the technical or certainly artistic categories, his competitive record would have to be really historic or record filled to merit a top 3 rank all time IMO.

Do you know what is historic?

Plushenko has medals in seniors from 15-31 y.o. His longevity in highest level is historic..

Plush was in 4 OGs and he won medals( two silvers and ond individual gold, and one team gold)

He wasn't off the podium since 1998 to his last competition except 2000 WCH... those were mostly gold medals

Yagudin has 4, Plushenko has 3, Browning has 4 golds. Too big different? Plushenko has more GPF victories, European champion titles, Russian champion titles. For ex Yagudin never was Russian champion .

About artistry: Plushenko has cca 70 6.0s ( he ad 75 in total, but he received some 6.0s for his technic) for his presentation he received mostly on international competitions( 1996-2004). I like how you ignore it.

How much did Yagudin have? or Browning? I believe Yagudin received only at SLC. He had no more. Ridiculous don't you think?

Do you know Maya Plisetskaya, Nicolai Tsiskaridze name? World famous ballet dancers. Plushenko was their favorite skater. Roberto Bolle, Sergei Filin, Yuri Smekalov..they also praised Plushenko's skating. hmmm..they chose Plushenko not Yagudin..

 

[Manitou]

With the Olympics now behind us and people like Hanyu and Savchenko setting historic marks what is now your top 10 of all time in each event. Mine would be.
...
8. Medvedeva- Failure to win Olympic Gold drops her from 1st to 7th.
...

Failure?????

Unbelievably subjective list.
Making OGM as the main and primary criteria for GOAT is almost a disqualifying factor for the list.
So why didn't you put Tara Lipinski on the list? She won gold, while one of the true GOATs, Michelle Kwan, didn't. And thank you for even noticing Kwan, she must be honored!
Plus, Medvedeva didn't fail at anything. She didn't have any failure at all. Her Olympics was one of the greatest skating ever. She was only outscored by Alina, who also presented one of greatest skating in history. Evgenia is the reigning queen today and her silver is a gold. There were two golds last Olympics. It was an incredible night and everybody participating, including Kaetlyn, Satoko and others, deserve full respect and recognition. Nobody failed at anything.

Davis/White as 6th??? Their competition against V/M was epic and elevated ice dance to new levels. And they were winning it. Their retirement, plus P/C's disastrous costume mishap in SD, gave V/M the gold.

Gordeeva/Grinkov's win in Lillehammer was disputable and could very well go to Dmitriev/Mishkutenok. It was another 50-50 contest that could go either way. And Brasseur/Eisler should be on the list too.
Protopopovs were before I could even watch FS, so I have to believe they should be #1. G/G should be behind even Rodnina/Zaitsev. Of course, my heart goes to Aljona, but it's hard to measure it against the history. The emotions are still too fresh to judge.

 

[Erin9]

It’s really too soon to fully judge current skaters imo; their impact hasn’t fully been felt- or possibly lack thereof. Alina being technically proficient today doesn’t work for me as a reason to include her yet. We haven’t seen enough of her imo. Medeveda’s dominance for so long does mean she should be included though in my view.

V/M have been around long enough to make a partial assessment imo. I see V/M as one of the most competitive teams, not necessarily greatest, at this time. Great-yes- very top of the list- no. T/D changed ice dancing forever. While it’s easier imo to keep up in ice dancing, their ability to medal 10 years later is incredibly impressive- and many thought they were underscored.

Plus- there’s no doubt in my mind that V/M’s success has been helped by D/W choosing to move on at a time when they were beating V/M. And I tend to believe the results of this Olympics would have been different had it not been for the unfortunate wardrobe malfunction; P/C did win the FS- highly noteworthy imo.

I would definitely put G&G and the Protopopovs at the top of any list, even though I never saw the latter skate. Not sure which belongs on top. Also-G &G had an incredibly successful pro career.

Regarding Dick Button. Never saw him skate, but there’s no denying what he did for men’s FS imo. It goes way beyond 2 OGMs in a row, which is impressive all by itself. Brian Orser likely belongs on the list too.

ITA about everything Plushenko. He’d be on the list, but lower down for all reasons listed.

I tend to feel that if Michelle goes on the list, Tara should too. Plus- Tara’s technical skills are noteworthy. She had a far shorter career, but made it to the top, bested one of the greats and left the sport differently than she found it. Along with Michelle. I suppose this argument could be used to include Alina, but it’s only been one season- that hasn’t concluded yet.

 

[EyesOfLove]

My english is not good, I should to say Imite not copy, and I should put a ( . )after ¨ when she was a kid ¨ . I meant, she said that when she was a kid she memorized Michelle´s programs and she liked imite her on the ice, not for competition, just for fun, I think . And well, everyone knows that Sherezade was homage to Michelle´s Sherezade.

Thanks for the clarification. Seems like I had been misunderstanding your point after all. Now I see what you had meant to say (though I still don't feel that Kim's Scheherazade, in terms of music cuts, choreography arrangement of elements, bore much resemblance to Kwan's in such wise that it could be called an homage to the latter.)

 

[plushyfan]

Well, I'm sure the history will decide who is on the list and where. In 20-30 years, only the facts will be spoken, not personal opinions or national bias.

 

[Manitou]

In 20-30 years, only the facts will be spoken, not personal opinions or national bias.

In 20-30 years the national bias will be the only one that stays...
And what is 20 years? 20 years ago there was Nagano which feels like yesterday. It was Tara and Michelle! Emotions and personal opinions are still as high as they were back then

 

[plushyfan]

In 20-30 years the national bias will be the only one that stays...
And what is 20 years? 20 years ago there was Nagano which feels like yesterday. It was Tara and Michelle! Emotions and personal opinions are still as high as they were back then

ha-ha yes..maybe 30, 50 years?

 

[yume]

Ladies
1. Mao Asada
2. Yuna Kim
With Mao way ahead.
That's all.

 

[IceCastles1814v]

V/M have been around long enough to make a partial assessment imo. I see V/M as one of the most competitive teams, not necessarily greatest, at this time. Great-yes- very top of the list- no. T/D changed ice dancing forever. While it’s easier imo to keep up in ice dancing, their ability to medal 10 years later is incredibly impressive- and many thought they were underscored.

Plus- there’s no doubt in my mind that V/M’s success has been helped by D/W choosing to move on at a time when they were beating V/M. And I tend to believe the results of this Olympics would have been different had it not been for the unfortunate wardrobe malfunction; P/C did win the FS- highly noteworthy imo.

I don't think you can discuss competitiveness and results in Ice Dance without acknowledging that it is also a political game in part. Back in T/Ds day, when you were on top you could not be touched no matter what. Through an entire quad. B/B were the same right after them.

Under IJS, it is more competitive, but still subject to political manuevering. V/M skated both programs well and P/C did not. Yet, the margin was so small despite that. Similarly, Yuzuru Hanyu skated the best over SP and FS. He did not win the FS. Is it fair to diminish his win by what ifing Nathan Chen's SP?

I also don't see what D/W have to do with this since they did not continue to compete, we don't know what would have happened. V/M came back stronger and won 4/5 meetings overall against a very favored P/C.

I agree in the end, all-time lists are fluid and subject to obvious bias toward valuing perceived artistry, contributions to the sport and results. But V/M have an admirable body of work, have inspired many younger ice dance teams and they have the 5 olympic medals. They definitely belong in the conversation of greatest ice dancers.

 

[LadyB]

Not to include Toller Cranston is almost a crime.

Olympic medals are definitely not everything. How can someone compare Dick Button and Yuzu Hanyu?

 

[BlueCat28]

I don't think you can discuss competitiveness and results in Ice Dance without acknowledging that it is also a political game in part. Back in T/Ds day, when you were on top you could not be touched no matter what. Through an entire quad. B/B were the same right after them.

Under IJS, it is more competitive, but still subject to political manuevering. V/M skated both programs well and P/C did not. Yet, the margin was so small despite that. Similarly, Yuzuru Hanyu skated the best over SP and FS. He did not win the FS. Is it fair to diminish his win by what ifing Nathan Chen's SP?

I also don't see what D/W have to do with this since they did not continue to compete, we don't know what would have happened. V/M came back stronger and won 4/5 meetings overall against a very favored P/C.

I agree in the end, all-time lists are fluid and subject to obvious bias toward valuing perceived artistry, contributions to the sport and results. But V/M have an admirable body of work, have inspired many younger ice dance teams and they have the 5 olympic medals. They definitely belong in the conversation of greatest ice dancers.

Nathan Chen didnt mess up his sp because of costume malfunction. So the comparison is not good. It is not the same at all

Second they have 5 gold olympic medals - thats make them the best? Sorry, french or skaters from other countries other then Canada, Russa or Usa have no chance to be the most decorated skaters . For you D/R are one of the best pair skaters off all time because they have 3 olympic medals???? And Osmond who has 3 as well(if I am correct)? So she must be one of the best single woman skaters out there?She is better then Yuna lol