2017-18 State of Russian Ladies skating | Page 395 | Golden Skate

2017-18 State of Russian Ladies skating

russianfan said:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...-russian-women-rule-figure-skating/110737834/



That was one of the funniest things(and pathetic as well) i've ever read in the media about figure skating. They've unleashed our girls on their unprepared rivals!! :laugh2:
Click to expand...

they also said that Osmond was clean... um did you see the lutz?

also, puremagic, it appears that your scouting is being recognized :)

also, since when does Canada have good junior ladies, as they mentioned? the only semi-good one is Aurora Cotop, but she was 17th at JWC with 141.64...
 
Spirals for Miles said:
they also said that Osmond was clean... um did you see the lutz?

also, puremagic, it appears that your scouting is being recognized :)

also, since when does Canada have good junior ladies, as they mentioned? the only semi-good one is Aurora Cotop, but she was 17th at JWC with 141.64...
Click to expand...






For years and years, Canada’s female skaters, we know, in retrospect-some of us knew back when- Why Canadian female skaters couldn’t keep up with the international pace. In a nutshell, Skate Canada remained unduly wary if allowing young girls to spread their triple jump wings. It was forbidden for Coaches to allow their students to do these jumps. The thinking with ladies in the past was when they were young there was that cautiousness of having them to do too much, was the potential for injury. Thinking has changed now with regards to this theory Starting with Rochette, Osmond, Daleman etc.
It wasn’t because they couldn’t do it but because of Coaches restrictions on what they could teach. Times they are a changing. Canada, unlike some other countries, was thinking about the health and welfare of these little girls. Russia, unlike Canada, takes them from the cradle to the ice rink, trying to teach them triples. In retrospect, not healthy.
 
millie said:
Canada, unlike some other countries, was thinking about the health and welfare of these little girls. Russia, unlike Canada, takes them from the cradle to the ice rink, trying to teach them triples. In retrospect, not healthy.
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do you really think only coaches in Canada care about skater's health and in other countries like Russia/Japan coaches don't care about that at all?
 
tjb said:
i was also rewatching old sotskova programs, from her glorious panova's days. and it was striking to see how much she regressed since then (i already forgot how good she was). 5 years ago baby-masha looked like she is next carolina
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm1mpEn5TbA&t
and look what buyanova did to her. and now it's gubanova's turn
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But she regressed after her body changed, before moving to buyanova.
 
I agree that Masha had more interesting programs as a junior, but her skating skills and musicality have improved as a senior. I'd like to see her take what she's learned over the past few senior seasons and apply it to something more interesting and avant-garde.

:rolleye: at people complaining about her jumps getting worse. She grew up, and her body changed. That shouldn't be something to complain about or criticize.
 
millie said:
For years and years, Canada’s female skaters, we know, in retrospect-some of us knew back when- Why Canadian female skaters couldn’t keep up with the international pace. In a nutshell, Skate Canada remained unduly wary if allowing young girls to spread their triple jump wings. It was forbidden for Coaches to allow their students to do these jumps. The thinking with ladies in the past was when they were young there was that cautiousness of having them to do too much, was the potential for injury. Thinking has changed now with regards to this theory Starting with Rochette, Osmond, Daleman etc.
It wasn’t because they couldn’t do it but because of Coaches restrictions on what they could teach. Times they are a changing. Canada, unlike some other countries, was thinking about the health and welfare of these little girls. Russia, unlike Canada, takes them from the cradle to the ice rink, trying to teach them triples. In retrospect, not healthy.
Click to expand...

Hmm, I'm not sure I agree with this at all. In 1980, a 12 y/o Tracey Wainman burst onto the scene with a 3sal. The 80s had Liz Manley who did all the triples except the Flip. The next quad we saw April Sargent who was landing 3axels in practice. Then the 90s was all about Karen Preston, Josee Chouinard, JSlo et al who had all the triples. Pretty much the evolution of US ladies skating at the same time. It's hard to believe coaches were told not to or forbidden from teaching ladies to do triples. If so, the top coaches just flat out ignored SkateCanada.
 
I don't see not allowing juniors to learn difficult elements as taking care about their health. Look at Chebotareva who is proud follower of that coaching method, her senior students are very inconsistent and often take hard falls. Hard fall can be even more dangerous for post puberty skater.
 
millie said:
Russia, unlike Canada, takes them from the cradle to the ice rink, trying to teach them triples. In retrospect, not healthy.
Click to expand...
Do you think it's more healthy for skaters to never fall on triple jumps or to constantly fall on them? For example, Finland follows this philosophy of not teaching triples until later and their skaters never skate clean - According to interviews it's essentially an unattainable miracle for a skater to skate clean and might happen once every 100 skates. On the other hand, Eteri's girls rarely if ever fall. Isn't it healthier to not fall on the jumps? Also, it is in fact a lot more damaging and painful to fall constantly(when learning new jumps) when older and heavier. If you've played with little kids, they could take a fall and not even care. And I don't know how you played with friends as a child but I know that if I attempted some of those things now I probably would be in hospital after a couple of days. If you've read some more, they use padded pants, the fishing rods etc. when teaching new jumps.

I'd in fact argue it's less healthy and more damaging to teach the jumps when the skater's older. Everything should be taught as soon as possible in my opinion. And teaching an eager student is completely different from forcing them to do something.
 
I made a Triple Lutz comparison between Alina Zagitova and Sofia Akatieva. The angles are slightly different but it's still interesting. Akatieva manages just over half a revolution more by the time she's at 2 and a half(Which is when she stops).

The reason for choosing Zagitova is similar Lutz edge and pre-rotation style, rippon arms and the fact that she's one of the faster senior rotators.

By the way, I picked this one because the angle was closer, but her SP's 3Lutz Akatieva rotated even faster - I had it at over 6 revolutions per second. And she finished rotating 3 frames before landing despite having pretty low air time on that one - If that Lutz by Akatieva had the air time of Zagitova's triple Lutz, it's a rotated quad Lutz
 
Shayuki said:
I made a Triple Lutz comparison between Alina Zagitova and Sofia Akatieva. The angles are slightly different but it's still interesting. Akatieva manages just over half a revolution more by the time she's at 2 and a half(Which is when she stops).

The reason for choosing Zagitova is similar Lutz edge and pre-rotation style, rippon arms and the fact that she's one of the faster senior rotators.

By the way, I picked this one because the angle was closer, but her SP's 3Lutz Akatieva rotated even faster - I had it at over 6 revolutions per second. And she finished rotating 3 frames before landing despite having pretty low air time on that one - If that Lutz by Akatieva had the air time of Zagitova's triple Lutz, it's a rotated quad Lutz
Click to expand...

sasha said that the biggest obstacle for her in jumping 4Lz and 4F is that coaches told her the she should jump without hands above the head, but jumps with hands is much easier for her and she used to jump 3Lz and 3F only that way.
i wondering how sofia feels about it.
and why eteri wants to put down hands of my baby? they should allow her to do comfortable attempts. i saw myself vincent zhou doing a rippon 4Lz on the instagram video. and the highest 3Lz in the history of ladies triple lutzes was done that way
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQn8j7zfVZs&feature=youtu.be&t=47
 
When Kamila Valieva is actually in good form and skating clean she's fantastic to watch. Actually, the skating seems quite improved in comparison to even early this season. If she can actually maintain this and even improve upon it over the course of the next season, she's going to be quite something to watch during the 2019-2020 junior season. Ah, in fact, she also is born at exactly the right time for the 2022 Olympics.

And THIS combination spin always feels like a magic trick to me. Made even better by the music.

tjb said:
and the highest 3Lz in the history of ladies triple lutzes was done that way
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQn8j7zfVZs&feature=youtu.be&t=47
Click to expand...

Okay, that's pretty ridiculous. Akatieva could quintuple Lutz with that air time. It's way higher than Trusova's quads also.
 
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