Nathan Chen

[1111bm]

I will agree on some points, but Ashley can only do so much with the choreo that she is given, if the choreo for the ladies wasn't so dumbed down, it wouldn't be as awkward and seem like "posing". JMHO

But it's not just in this ice dance number, that over the top posing + low quality SS has always been her MO, at least that's the impression I get whenever I watch her competitive programs.
So I don't think it's the choreo's fault, it's simply her skating style (and as you can tell, I'm certainly not fan of it... at all).

And even with a bad choreo, the movements and stepwork could still be executed well. A skater can still fully commit and utilise his/her whole body, point their toes, keep a nice tension throughout, make sure the movements are fluid and precise... that's what I see when I watch Nathan, but Ashley's execution simply looks half-baked and she's mostly working with facial expressions.

Also, during that step sequence that I referenced, she and Nathan are doing the exact same type of steps/choreo, so we can directly compare the execution.

I was doing partnering way younger than them - doesn’t seem all that big a deal imo

I think that's pretty much the point... if you've never done this at a younger age, you have no feel for how to carry yourself and in which way one should move, when you're suddenly thrown into a "pair's situation" at an older age.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

But it's not just in this ice dance number, that over the top posing + low quality SS has always been her MO, at least that's the impression I get whenever I watch her competitive programs.
So I don't think it's the choreo's fault, it's simply her skating style (and as you can tell, I'm certainly not fan of it... at all).

And even with a bad choreo, the movements and stepwork could still be executed well. A skater can still fully commit and utilise his/her whole body, point their toes, keep a nice tension throughout, make sure the movements are fluid and precise... that's what I see when I watch Nathan, but Ashley's execution simply looks half-baked and she's mostly working with facial expressions.

Also, during that step sequence that I referenced, she and Nathan are doing the exact same type of steps/choreo, so we can directly compare the execution.

I'm not about to get in a debate over this, especially since it's part of my expertise as a pro skater.

But the choreography for this particular number is tired and half baked. It is the same repetitive crap that's always cranked out, those who aren't ice dancers should just say no to doing choreography related to it. Jeff needs to just give it up with that attempt, 2016 tour had similar routine done and it was with 3 ice dance teams and still bad. Sorry not sorry. Not to mention, the finale and opening group programs were also predictable choreography (it's done every year to two years the only thing that changes is the music).

Ashley is not all about posing and facial expressions, I've seen her skate for many years, and over many different competitions and shows. She is very versatile and that girl works the ice.

Perhaps, we should go back to talking about just Nathan since this is his fan fest and not comparing to other skaters.
There has been a warning already about this in the last week to this FF.

 

[Mamamiia]

I actually find Nathan/Ashley ice dance quite entertaining and can't wait to see it live. Awkward or not, to me it's just cuteness in a new way :luv17:...in the end this will be another fun memory in his skating career.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I actually find Nathan/Ashley ice dance quite entertaining and can't wait to see it live. Awkward or not, to me it's just cuteness in a new way :luv17:...in the end this will be another fun memory in his skating career.

Exactly. And it's not like they are going to be skating this number for the rest of their lives, something like 15 more times, and then never again.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Haha yes never again !!

Honestly I think it’s fine - maybe just try to skate not 10 for apart lol

There's really no reason to be hung up on the idea of how close two singles skaters are skating together. They are not used to dance partnering and also there is a risk with their blades esp the heels getting caught up in each other since they are longer than the dancers blades.

 

[1111bm]

Well I didn't say it wasn't entertaining to watch .

And yeah, it's funny how they seem to miscalculate their skating speed and end up so far apart, because they simply don't have the experience of actual ice dancers .
Which is why I think it would have been nicer and more interesting if they had done mixed pairs, with one experienced ice dancer leading one of the singles skaters... would've loved to see how that turned out.
(Of course I realise that this wouldn't actually work for the show, because than the ice dancers wouldn't be able to show off their actual skills and would have to "dumb it down" too much)

 

[Mamamiia]

As busy as he is going to be, we may not see him in SOI tour again for the next 4 years. I really appreciate his commitment to this presumably uncomfortable icedance number (he could easily say no) and I want to say he did quite well.

 

[Mamamiia]

Well I didn't say it wasn't entertaining to watch .

And yeah, it's funny how they seem to miscalculate their skating speed and end up so far apart, because they simply don't have the experience of actual ice dancers .
Which is why I think it would have been nicer and more interesting if they had done mixed pairs, with one experienced ice dancer leading one of the singles skaters... would've loved to see how that turned out.
(Of course I realise that this wouldn't actually work for the show, because than the ice dancers wouldn't be able to show off their actual skills and would have to "dumb it down" too much)

I like the idea of mixing them up. Nathan can go with Meryle and Ashley goes with Charlie.

 

[skfan]

1111bm,

you raise several good points, and i do see where you're coming from. i felt much as you do the first time i saw this number.

with the benefit of an additional week of consideration, however, i must say i disagree with the elderly aunt (paraphrasing) angle. i think they are close enough to the same age now that good acting skills and sufficient rehearsal hours should manage to make the icky plot plausible, at least. i also suspect (can't read his mind, i know) that he would not appreciate being considered 'too young', even if he has to suppress a snort at lyrics like 'taking a shot' or *cringe* 'smelly bedsheets' (honestly i have to go listen to a bach cantata afterwards most times just to rinse these lyrics out of my brain).

i felt icky about it at first, but i feel better about it now, because even if he's still not comfortable grinding his hip into ashley's, he has a more mischievous can-ya-believe-what-i'm-doin'? look on his face now, compared to his first week impacted-wisdom-teeth look. *it seems* he's into the fun of it, at least--i acknowledge fully that i cannot read his mind. and his dancing is pleasant enough to my eyes, even with the moments of questionable posture. i hardly notice ashley when they aren't in contact.

look, i don't know how much longer i'll get to watch him skate, so i'm thankful he's doing more than just two solos on the stars on ice tour, even if the costumes and choreography for the group numbers haven't inspired me to pull out my old VHS of sandra bezic's great SOI legacy. and i think it's fine to challenge him to do something different, even something with a seductive vibe, because... *dons flame-resistant suit* sorry to say, my fear is... were it *solely* up to him we might get more quads, all perfectly timed to the music of course, each quad taking at least an hour off my life. and i certainly don't want to see him dribbling a basketball on ice in a utah jazz uniform, fun as it might be for other fans! so in this case i'm glad other people are dictating the choreography, other people have decreed that there be no quads! that's enough to make me do cartwheels of joy right there. at least with no judges and levels and quads to conserve energy for, plus now that he has a dance partner to consider, he has to pretty much adhere to the choreography, even if it isn't exactly lori nichol's fine work for mao's last dancer we're talking about.

but who knows? maybe that sorta smirk on his face means he and ashley had a meeting over coffee and brownies and decided how and when they were going to deviate from the script. if zach donohue could take liberties with nathan's hair, the least nathan and ashley could do is take out this move or alter their relative position in that particular moment. probably few people would be scrutinizing closely enough to notice, and as a bonus they would feel comfortable enough to sit next to each other on the bus the next day. imagine that--on a bus that's unlikely to be full he sat next to ashley? even if he fully planned to wrap himself up like a mummy shortly after, what happened to the boy who's scared of pretty girls (or pretty elderly ladies in their twenties) and starting conversations? ...assuming he wasn't the one who sat down first and ashley then decided she wanted the seat next to him.

i'm also happy to see him wearing a color other than black or white and a shirt that doesn't ride up and swallow his head. i'm happy to see his stiffness and posture improved from the first week to the second week.

as for the difference in his and ashley's skating skills, it's not particularly noticeable to me in this number, because they both look ungainly compared to the real ice dancers. as a matter of fact when they aren't close enough to potentially trip up each other, i'm only seeing nathan. in a past life i was a mishkutenok/dmitriev uber, a paul/islam uber, an uber of many pairs and dance teams, and i can see more than one skater on ice at any moment. but in this number, when i can see both ashley *and* nathan, usually i'm smiling at how his acting skills still trail far behind hers, even if he moves as beautifully as anybody. so... *shrug* i really only object to the lyrics, and i can mute that with the push of a button.

i appreciate your thoughtful comments about nathan's skating skills, acknowledging his strengths and noting his weaknesses. i also appreciate your thoughtfulness towards his level of comfort performing choreography with a seductive vibe. i just think that this is not so far out of his comfort zone that he can't manage it, based on what i see in the evolution of his movements and facial expressions from week 1 to week 2. i also think it doesn't hurt to improve his acting skills and his ability to project emotions. if you wring people's hearts with your theatrical ability, the judges may well overlook certain weaker aspects of your skating. nathan is good at many, many things, but he can stand to improve emotional projection, he can stand to hone his sense of skating as *theatrical entertainment* for the audience and the judges (the first row of spectators, as someone once said), especially during competitions.

 

[hhh]

This entire choreography is boring and has either no or just dull transitions, I was watching the clips focused on the other two pro ice dancing teams and it felt like they had to throw in a few moves from their own sp/fs to keep this performance going, and as I’ve noted Nathan and Ashley portion has improved quite a lot I’m looking forward just to see it.

I think it’s too early to know whether or not he will attend future SOI like Yale classes, too soon to make a call.

 

[sheetz]

As busy as he is going to be, we may not see him in SOI tour again for the next 4 years. I really appreciate his commitment to this presumably uncomfortable icedance number (he could easily say no) and I want to say he did quite well.

Non-olympic year SOI tours are much shorter so I doubt he'd skip it. He needs to make money.

 

[skfan]

What the heck is he doing here?! https://mobile.twitter.com/crossthefingers/status/985722969673658376/photo/2 LOLOL Oh Nathan.

what do you make of the fact that meryl also has a non-neutral expression on her face in that picture?

anyway, skaters do lick their lips and suck in their snots, sometimes at the most inopportune moment!

i do think that the tongue hanging out is more scandalous in light of that first pic where he is, shall we say, not making eye contact with his dance partner?

 

[discode]

Who knows, but Japan shows are more prestigious nowadays. It's pretty coveted to get invited to those as a foreign skater. He's got a few shows this summer. I know a lot of fans were upset he didn't do the Yokohama shows (so there is some demand for more) though he had to come do US SOI.

And I think he'll do more SOI? This is his first year even doing it fully and he sounds like he likes it. It's a good summer job lol

 

[sheetz]

I've heard the figure of $5000/show in Japan but it varies a lot depending on the popularity of the skater. But now that Nathan's World Champion his appearance fee has probably gone up. I'm also sure he gets paid a bit more than other US SOI skaters since he's a headliner.

 

[skfan]

Non-olympic year SOI tours are much shorter so I doubt he'd skip it. He needs to make money.

do you recall how many cities, the dates of last year's tour?

 

[sheetz]

do you recall how many cities, the dates of last year's tour?

Just 7 cities, and Nathan only did 6 of them.
https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?62439-Stars-On-Ice-US-Tickets-On-Sale

He likely made more money doing Dreams On Ice.

 

[skfan]

Just 7 cities, and Nathan only did 6 of them.
https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?62439-Stars-On-Ice-US-Tickets-On-Sale

He likely made more money doing Dreams On Ice.

Thank you. I knew I asked the right person

 

[sheetz]

I’m not sure what the difference in all the Japan shows are - would he still perform the same programs for Dreams show?

Not sure I understand your question. He only did DOI last year, and he performed one program, Parachute, in all 4 DOI shows.

 

[lurkz2]

There's really no reason to be hung up on the idea of how close two singles skaters are skating together. They are not used to dance partnering and also there is a risk with their blades esp the heels getting caught up in each other since they are longer than the dancers blades.

Yes, I think it's better to be safe. Even pairs skaters need time to skate closely together, and there are still many horrific accidents in pairs skating. Nathan just took out a cameraman in their pre-Olympic shoot!:shocked:

In that sense Ashley was the best choice; since they're both team Raf he's presumably more familiar with her skating strokes etc. She also seems like the best performer among the ladies, based on the videos, she seems more confident and comfortable than Bradie or Karen.

 

[1111bm]

with the benefit of an additional week of consideration, however, i must say i disagree with the elderly aunt (paraphrasing) angle. i think they are close enough to the same age now that good acting skills and sufficient rehearsal hours should manage to make the icky plot plausible, at least. i also suspect (can't read his mind, i know) that he would not appreciate being considered 'too young', even if he has to suppress a snort at lyrics like 'taking a shot' or *cringe* 'smelly bedsheets' (honestly i have to go listen to a bach cantata afterwards most times just to rinse these lyrics out of my brain).

Oh, I didn't mean elderly aunt.
More like in-her-early-thirties aunt, because if someone told me Ashley was in fact thirty-something, I wouldn't blink an eye... (unless early thirties = elderly )

But again, it's not any actual age difference that trips me up, it's just about appearance, the teenager vs. somewhat more mature look I guess (which obviously can be quite independent from a person's actual age, especially since women can add a ton of years with make-up).
And I'm not actually bothered by it, it just makes me not quite buy their interaction.
And if anything, it makes me feel uncomfortable on Nathan's behalf (but then again, as you said, can't read his mind, so maybe I'm just assuming too much).

And yes, if done in a more comfortable looking way, Nathan could certainly still sell the choreo.
I actually don't enjoy the theatrics of real ice dance, so I'm more than ok with a toned down, more casual, non-ice-dancer version of these two singles skaters. So I don't need them to project more outwards, just make it look more natural, I guess.

ETA: I actually don't think he's too young or young-looking to sell this routine, I think it's just that he's never done this type of choreo before, and with a partner on top of that. So he needs some time to adapt, and I feel that a different partner could have benefited him, that's all.

Also, am I the only person that can just block out lyrics and listen to them as if they were an instrument? I usually have to make a conscious effort to catch the meaning of a song.
I was blissfully unaware of the lyrics, until I read some excerpts in this thread...