Been attempting the Axel

[SeaniBu]

My lower back is hurting, never before, but had not been tying Axels. Is that indicative or am I landing wrong. I think I am absorbing with my knee / leg, but since I have been trying it has been hurting all the sudden. I feel when "pushing with my leg I am unbalanced and trying to compensate by becoming ridged. Yes I want a coach but not that serious so I am looking for advice here.

Is the advise, "stop trying the Axel?

 

[dlkksk8fan]

Yes I want a coach

by all means get a coach. You might be doing something wrong while attempting the axel. Stop doing the move (pain means there is something wrong).

 

[antmanb]

My lower back is hurting, never before, but had not been tying Axels. Is that indicative or am I landing wrong. I think I am absorbing with my knee / leg, but since I have been trying it has been hurting all the sudden. I feel when "pushing with my leg I am unbalanced and trying to compensate by becoming ridged. Yes I want a coach but not that serious so I am looking for advice here.

Is the advise, "stop trying the Axel?

Hey Sean..are you nuts??

Actually we're all a little bit nuts when it comes to skating i guess!

How are you other jumps coming along?

Just so that we know what you are doing so that any advice can be given, can you describe exactly how you are trying the jump and how far round you are getting/how you are landing? My advice for axels would be - try and get a good one off ice so that you get used to what th rotation feels like and then build up to teh opn ice axels with various other practice drills.

Ant

 

[SeaniBu]

First, the only full I can pull are on the mini tramp in the back yard. I have landed forward on the ice on a 2/3 twice - first time I held with a twofoot and the second I splashed because I leaned forward (elbows and shoulders hurt too) and wobbled trying to pull up the second foot and toe pick caught. I pad my elbows since my "Bunny flop" back when I first joined GS, and I refuse to let my face and head hit the ice again.

I just went outside to try a couple with out the tramp (off concrete) and really focused on what I am doing. Maybe it is that I am twisting my upper body too much before I push off or rotated more then it should on the landing??? Maybe my foot having to be in a slightly different position than when skating is causing mussel recall to be "confused." I also wonder if the way I hit the ice when falling arched my back a little and tweaked it. But it looks like there is a lot less twist in the jumps when the real men are doing it in the vids. I do know it is aching again and doesn't when I use the tramp - also really gets my thigh fired up more too - thighs feel kinda good though.

I think I should just stop trying that jump. The flip is the only one I feel I can do with any kind of consistency (it seems "proper" to me landing on the vaulting / opposite blade to me - well the Bunny is sloppy but the motions are all there (can't figure out how to practice that off ice, ice dependent jump?) - and was watching Ilia, Rudy and Todd's 96 and just got inspired - to kill myself .

I think you 2 are right though, stop or get a coach. I am so "tensed up" as soon as I turn forward. I hate to think I just don't have the "cahones" but that and lack of physical training, and someone to watch and point out "impropers" might be the issue.

What is a good practice drill? All I do is stretch and "warm up my edges" then I start steps. I have been able to do the 1/3 Axel for a while, I know, HA! But under the CoP that might get counted as an under rotated.....J/K I also feel like my balance should "improve," but is staying the same really.

I hear a voice in my head saying "Dance Seani Dance." Maybe syncro. I am likely too old for this step in pushing it. My body just might not have had the right "upbringing of the body" to go jumping. Maybe I should start working on the steps and spins. I should be practicing them anyway. They are not that centered. Little steps and stop trying to leap beyond my physical abilities. I think I am just being stupid. I think I would like to skate with someone anyhow.

 

[Spins]

My lower back is hurting, never before, but had not been tying Axels. Is that indicative or am I landing wrong. I think I am absorbing with my knee / leg, but since I have been trying it has been hurting all the sudden. I feel when "pushing with my leg I am unbalanced and trying to compensate by becoming ridged. Yes I want a coach but not that serious so I am looking for advice here.

Is the advise, "stop trying the Axel?

SeaniBu,

Could it be a pinched nerve in the back? I've had something like that come and go but really you should experience this all of the time when pressure is applied to it.

Gary
o-o

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[SeaniBu]

SeaniBu,

Could it be a pinched nerve in the back? I've had something like that come and go but really you should experience this all of the time when pressure is applied to it.

Gary
o-o

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Great, wonderful. Yah I am going to stop trying jumps that I can't already do to some extent. And If the back keeps on aching I will likely stop those too.

Welcome Spins!

Curious about the ***************888, that is my favorite number.

 

[Alsace]

I hate to think I just don't have the "cahones" but that and lack of physical training, and someone to watch and point out "impropers" might be the issue.

So, what are "cahones" anyway? I did try to look it up.

 

[SeaniBu]

So, what are "cahones" anyway? I did try to look it up.

"courage" but that makes me sound like more of a wimp.

 

[gkelly]

cojones = Spanish for balls (testicles)

Definitely don't work on axels on ice without lessons. It's not a beginner jump. And don't do anything that frequently causes pain.

But when you are ready to work your way up to working on it, some good pre-axel exercises are waltz jump-loop combination, waltz jump into backspin, jump out of backspin into landing position, half axel intentionally landing forward on toe pick of the skating foot and forward inside edge of what would be the landing foot.

 

[SeaniBu]

cojones = Spanish for balls (testicles)

Definitely don't work on axels on ice without lessons. It's not a beginner jump. And don't do anything that frequently causes pain.

But when you are ready to work your way up to working on it, some good pre-axel exercises are waltz jump-loop combination, waltz jump into backspin, jump out of backspin into landing position, half axel intentionally landing forward on toe pick of the skating foot and forward inside edge of what would be the landing foot.

Thanks "G". I really meant it as a slang term for courage only. I have found that those have nothing to do with guts. Unless I am skinny dipp'n. But yes that is the correct spelling for the slang I was using, I hope I didn't offend anyone.

Good advice BTW, thank you I will attempt one of those. As for the Half Axel which I thought was a 2/3 due to revolution fractions, and land on the pick, sounds like I am going to do a face plant again. The more this is being discussed, the more I am thinking that I need to go for Dance. But I am not ready to throw the towel in just yet.:agree: Besides that is going to bring on a whole new set of challenges. Like who is going to skate with a guy who's Bunny hops look that bad?

BTW, the back pain only happens during and after the attempts, I am already feeling better from the couple of times I was trying outside earlier. But I will heed the advice and start small. or stay that way.

It is great to have helpful people who are willing to share.:agree:

 

[gkelly]

Good advice BTW, thank you I will attempt one of those. As for the Half Axel which I thought was a 2/3 due to revolution fractions, and land on the pick, sounds like I am going to do a face plant again.

It's the same kind of landing as on a half flip or half lutz. You don't stop on the pick, you immediately glide onto the forward edge of the other foot. Like with the bunny hop, but the other foot.

Of course, the extra rotation might throw you off balance.

Definitely work on backspins and waltz-loop combos. If you can't do those on the ice, you're not ready to work on axels.

I was struggling with the waltz-loop this afternoon. I've found I need to turn my landing foot in more than I do for a waltz jump on its own (or with a toe loop or falling leaf afterward) to get my weight shifted enough to take off again for the loop.

 

[brinababy87]

SeaniBu, of course I can't see what you're doing but the idea of attempting to learn an axel without a coach is a little scary. I know you're not serious and that's perfectly all right, but I have seen so many ugly (and dangerous) axels from people who don't have another set of eyes to watch what they're doing. If you ever want lessons from a coach it will be difficult to change to whatever ways they wish for you to do the jump... I share this because I actually am experiencing this problem right now. I taught myself to jump because I knew the correct take of edges and such but now that I am with a competent coach learned that I was doing everything completely wrong before, and there's no real way to "unlearn" anything you learned before. It's all a discouraging mess for me really, and I just really hope you aren't trying anything you might regret later. Not just injury-wise..

 

[julietvalcouer]

Jumping? Get a coach. I actually have a fairly good approach for an axel and I understand the mechanics of the lutz (the flip escapes me) but I would never dare actually jump without one of my coaches supervising, preferably with a harness. And since we don't work on freestyle, I don't. I have no desire to break something because I'm misalligned and doomed before I take off. You can't see yourself, so it's almost impossible to determine why a jump isn't going right. If you're going to jump (well, any skating stuff, but jumping especially) you really need a competant set of eyes watching you.

 

[SeaniBu]

I am really glad I brought this up here, I should have said something when I first started posting really. Should I stop the Bunny and flip too? Coach maybe in the future but not right now.

I am going tomorrow and will try some of the above and stop trying the Axel.

 

[Spins]

The Axle--Don't Let It Grease You

Great, wonderful. Yah I am going to stop trying jumps that I can't already do to some extent. And If the back keeps on aching I will likely stop those too.

Welcome Spins!

Curious about the ***************888, that is my favorite number.

Thanks for the welcome to this forum. A private e-mail was sent also.

After reading later posts I'd recommend that you never give up anything that seems difficult at the onset but simply try smaller versions with less rotation. What about a flip with a half rotation to begin with? Sooner or later you'll tuck in a little tighter and you'll get a full one. (I may have misread the thread but hope not.) The more technique you get corrected for rotation the great surprise will come in the axle when you let it ride just a little longer.

I'm on a comeback and have done the axle years ago. Currently showing my kids how they can start jumping with the flip. You'll get the confidence as you go but if you can do the jump at home on the floor or outside on the ground then you'll be able to do it when it counts.

Kind regards,

Gary

*********************************888

 

[Spins]

I just went outside to try a couple with out the tramp (off concrete) and really focused on what I am doing. Maybe it is that I am twisting my upper body too much before I push off or rotated more then it should on the landing??? Maybe my foot having to be in a slightly different position than when skating is causing mussel recall to be "confused." I also wonder if the way I hit the ice when falling arched my back a little and tweaked it. But it looks like there is a lot less twist in the jumps when the real men are doing it in the vids. I do know it is aching again and doesn't when I use the tramp - also really gets my thigh fired up more too - thighs feel kinda good though.

SeaniBu, Are you sure that you're using the correct technique for the setup? I mean one should remember to pull the arms and I've noticed that when "throwing" the right arm up and into jump (counter-clockwise) I'm aided in getting around better. There has to be something you're not doing in smooth order. Much of my past trouble has been fear of missing the jump--that tensed me up considerably.

Gary

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[blondeanglskate]

I really really really think you should get a coach! I know you don't consider yourself that serious but if you want to land an axel you have to be somewhat serious. I broke my wrist trying an axel during a group lesson, I don't even want to think about how much worse I probably would have been if I tried to teach it to myself. You really should stop and wait until you get a coach.

 

[brinababy87]

I am really glad I brought this up here, I should have said something when I first started posting really. Should I stop the Bunny and flip too? Coach maybe in the future but not right now.

I am going tomorrow and will try some of the above and stop trying the Axel.

Bunny hops are pretty much harmless, but flips you have to be sure you aren't "spinning" it... But yeah, axels call for serious attention to technique. Top skaters make it look easy only because they do it right.

 

[SeaniBu]

I am so appreciative of all the advice.

I received my first face to face comment today, " you look good out there, do you have a coach?" I said no. "You really seem to love skating, maybe you should look into that." (Does someone know me from the forum???) I giggled and was kind of shy because I think she was kind of young (17 or 18). I backed up and told her she is definitely right about me needing a coach, and I was going to stop jumping unless I get one....blaa blaa... I also said feel free to comment anytime, I don't plan on being serious but I don't want to screw myself up either.
I think she was there with her little sister or something. Anyway it made me feel like finally a set of eyes.:agree: She looked like she was favoring one leg when she was standing but I don't remember ever seeing her. So if that is someone from the forum don't be insulted. I am very "head down" and loaner mentality when I go skating alone.

No Jumps today - not even a real attempt at a full flip (funny that was mentioned), my heart just wasn't in it due to the idea I must be doing something wrong and like people are saying - learn it wrong and you could hurt yourself or have to relearn it. I did do little hops between 2 sequential spins a few times but couldn't get the second one going with any speed.

Now I felt a little funny skating a little like I was dancing with a broom (picturing Ben and Tanith - now that I think about it Tanith was probably bad to picture because I am sure my face was all "googly eyed" looking ), but if there is one aspect I love the most is the feeling and sound of the blades on the ice So not attempting jumps and working on spinning was still Oh so gratifying. And getting a commit made me feel like this was a good direction for me. I have a few things on my "plate of life" right now so couldn't comment to a regular skating schedule immediately. Maybe I will put out the hint for my Birthday. By then I should be settled in somewhere. ????

BTW, I think the comments of "tense" were very helpful to me today. I always knew I needed to relax, but the correlations made here were making sence to me more then ever. It was nice just to relax and "feel." Plus it brought back memories of broadway show choir in high school.

Thanks everyone, this likely saved me from another concussion.:agree:

"G" I will start working on some of the suggestions you had - in some ways I have already started, waltz. Today just seemed like "acceptance day."

 

[SeaniBu]

How are you other jumps coming along?

I feel my flip was good and my Bunny sloppy.

It's the same kind of landing as on a half flip or half lutz. You don't stop on the pick, you immediately glide onto the forward edge of the other foot. Like with the bunny hop, but the other foot.

Of course, the extra rotation might throw you off balance.

Definitely work on backspins and waltz-loop combos. If you can't do those on the ice, you're not ready to work on axels.

Thanks, that put it together in my mind.
Thinking back I am really "carving " out of flip and even spins. Maybe my balance is not as good as it needs to be.

Sooner or later you'll tuck in a little tighter and you'll get a full one. (I may have misread the thread but hope not.)

I have hit myself in the jaw (I keep me teeth clinched) so I might have been being a little cautious there, good point.

I really really really think you should get a coach! I know you don't consider yourself that serious but if you want to land an axel you have to be somewhat serious. I broke my wrist trying an axel during a group lesson, I don't even want to think about how much worse I probably would have been if I tried to teach it to myself. You really should stop and wait until you get a coach.

You're right.

Bunny hops are pretty much harmless, but flips you have to be sure you aren't "spinning" it... But yeah, axels call for serious attention to technique. Top skaters make it look easy only because they do it right.

That confirms it. As far as the Bunny I assume you mean harmless as far a learning bad tech? It sure hurt me, but it is when I wasn't paying attention - my own stupid fault. What did you mean about "spinning it." - Flip. Cheating, pre-rotation of my upper body?
Yah, asking that really makes me feel stupid for trying this stuff without guidance.
Thanks again everybody.