Yuzuru Hanyu: 2017-2018 | Page 310 | Golden Skate

Yuzuru Hanyu: 2017-2018

For the other skaters that you've mentioned, is the 'loopisation' an occasional thing like Yuzu (where he can have days that he does it right or days like NHK) or does it happen habitually?
Oh and I just remember, I think I've seen or heard someone comment about the NHK 4Lz that Yuzu's knee was kind of stiff and wasn't bending enough for the take off?
Loopisation: I can't tell, if it's a habit of these three in particular (just watched the slomo of one or two jumps), but it could be.

Yuzu's left knee should have been bended like Nathan's in the picture, but it was fully stretched, not bended at all. The reason is quite obvious: he's leaning to the right. If he bended his knee, his leg would be too short and the left blade couldn't reach the ice. The body center is on the wrong side.

Now I'll stop spamming the Yuzu thread :laugh::rolleye:
 
Another problem with Yuzu's Lutz take-off is that he's not using his right toe pick but the full blade to assist the take-off. That's technically wrong and should be counted as an (awkward) 4Lo by the technical panel. Nathan is only using his toe pick. Boyang dito.
I'm sorry to contradict you here but this is the first I'm hearing this about Yuzu's lutz? He's one of the very few who just toe-picks right away on the lutz... where are you seeing a full blade?
 
I tried to demonstrate Yuzu's axis problem with the Lutz here:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Henni147/status/989866483479203840

As you can see in the pictures, Nathan has a very clean left outside edge and he leans his full body to the left as well (naturally along the edge).
Yuzu enforces a left outside edge by twisting his ankle and leaning his body in the opposite direction - the same axis position as in the landing (a right back outside edge with natural leaning to the right). He's also twisting his hips and rising his left shoulder to create momemtum. That can't work, we remember his fall at NHK...
Another problem with Yuzu's Lutz take-off is that he's not using his right toe pick but the full blade to assist the take-off. That's technically wrong and should be counted as an (awkward) 4Lo by the technical panel. Nathan is only using his toe pick. Boyang dito.

The funny thing is: in his record freeskate in Barcelona Yuzu used the same correct take-off technique as Nathan and Boyang. This strange ankle twist comes and goes in Yuzu's Lutz attempts for whatever reason. I don't know why.

The flip jump has a nearly vertical take-off edge, so the flip requires a slight axis movement as well (not as much as the Lutz though). Yuzu could fix this problem quite well, since his current 3F looks very solid to me. His success rate on the flip over the last three years is remarkable.
Yuzu's 4T is decent as well, but sometimes he tends to slight underrotation in his landings, especially in the 4T+3T combo. His 4S might be less successful, but when it works, it's the best quad in the men's field.

Boyang has a brilliant jump technique and great control over his axis. Technically I would say, he's currently the best jumper in the world. In the overall quality including entrances/exits, soft landings and other features Yuzu is still unbeaten imo.

#Sidenote: I'm not a competitive skater and I wouldn't call myself an expert either. These are just my perceptions after watching countless jump slomos and animations from different angles ;)
I always noticed his lutz landing is quite problematic but I can't make out what it was and why it looks like that. Thank you for your analysis. His other quad jumps falls look like typical fall but his 4lutz fall is scary even when he manages to save the landings. It looks like he's twisting his knee badly. I'm terrified everytime I see his landing at NHK and Olympics. Do you think it is possible for Yuzuru to do quad lutz next seasons ? Should he stop trying it ? From what I see last season, it doesn't seem possitive at all. Because with quad lutz, it's more difficult for him to manage to save the landing and fall correctly to avoid injuries than 3lutz.
 
I'm sorry to contradict you here but this is the first I'm hearing this about Yuzu's lutz? He's one of the very few who just toe-picks right away on the lutz...
Thanks for the link! From this angle his toe assist looks correct indeed. I watched the jump from a disadvantgeous perspective I guess #MeaCulpa I'm sorry, Yuzu :palmf:

@vunhung3001: If Yuzu masters the 4A, there's no need to revive the 4Lz, but if he thinks the jump needs a second chance and he feels comfortable with it - why not. As far as I remember, Yuzu said he doesn't want to do the 'big jumps' (4Lo, 4F, 4Lz) in the near future. Wise decision imo.
 
As far as I remember, Yuzu said he doesn't want to do the 'big jumps' (4Lo, 4F, 4Lz) in the near future.

No, he did not. Please stop writing inaccuracies here.

He isn't jumping Lz/Lo/F due to his injury, even the singles, as they aggravate it. He has said nothing at all about quads or what his plans are. He still has a month of rehab after all.

He is never going to jump the 4F anyway, because while his 3F is a correct, stable jump, a quad would probably unsettle that as he used to Lip and there is no need for it anyway.
 
No, he did not. Please stop writing inaccuracies here.

He isn't jumping Lz/Lo/F due to his injury, even the singles, as they aggravate it. He has said nothing at all about quads or what his plans are. He still has a month of rehab after all.

He is never going to jump the 4F anyway, because while his 3F is a correct, stable jump, a quad would probably unsettle that as he used to Lip and there is no need for it anyway.
Henni that person is constantly writing false facts about Yuzuru's jumps. Thanks for clarification for others to read. Yuzu using a full blade takeoff sounds ridiculous. Never heard anybody mentioning that ever.
 
I tried to demonstrate Yuzu's axis problem with the Lutz here:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Henni147/status/989866483479203840

As you can see in the pictures, Nathan has a very clean left outside edge and he leans his full body to the left as well (naturally along the edge).
Yuzu enforces a left outside edge by twisting his ankle and leaning his body in the opposite direction - the same axis position as in the landing (a right back outside edge with natural leaning to the right). He's also twisting his hips and rising his left shoulder to create momemtum. That can't work, we remember his fall at NHK...
Another problem with Yuzu's Lutz take-off is that he's not using his right toe pick but the full blade to assist the take-off. That's technically wrong and should be counted as an (awkward) 4Lo by the technical panel. Nathan is only using his toe pick. Boyang dito.

The funny thing is: in his record freeskate in Barcelona Yuzu used the same correct take-off technique as Nathan and Boyang. This strange ankle twist comes and goes in Yuzu's Lutz attempts for whatever reason. I don't know why.

The flip jump has a nearly vertical take-off edge, so the flip requires a slight axis movement as well (not as much as the Lutz though). Yuzu could fix this problem quite well, since his current 3F looks very solid to me. His success rate on the flip over the last three years is remarkable.
Yuzu's 4T is decent as well, but sometimes he tends to slight underrotation in his landings, especially in the 4T+3T combo. His 4S might be less successful, but when it works, it's the best quad in the men's field.

Boyang has a brilliant jump technique and great control over his axis. Technically I would say, he's currently the best jumper in the world. In the overall quality including entrances/exits, soft landings and other features Yuzu is still unbeaten imo.

#Sidenote: I'm not a competitive skater and I wouldn't call myself an expert either. These are just my perceptions after watching countless jump slomos and animations from different angles ;)

You might want to look at Yuzuru's toe pick on his lutz compared to Nathan's. That might tell you about your observations. Well, except for how he has a full-blade assist, which he doesn't. Wouldn't get the height he does if he did, I think.

Yuzuru doesn't have a tendency to underrotate his 4T, as far as I'm aware. Nor does Boyang, nor does Nathan, before anyone else claims it. Of course, they're not physically incapable of having an off-day.

Boyang might be the best toe jumper. Yuzuru might be the best edge jumper. There's no real comparison there, IMO, but of course Yuzuru is more refined at this point.
 
Utter and complete nonsense.

Much like the rest of it really.

Yes. I'm sorry to be harsh, bit basically nothing there makes sense. Yuzus 4Lz should have been counted as an awkward 4Lo? What even.
I hope others don't just believe this but look around for info on these things. The blog BonesFan posted really is a great source.
 
I tried to demonstrate Yuzu's axis problem with the Lutz here:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Henni147/status/989866483479203840

As you can see in the pictures, Nathan has a very clean left outside edge and he leans his full body to the left as well (naturally along the edge).
Yuzu enforces a left outside edge by twisting his ankle and leaning his body in the opposite direction - the same axis position as in the landing (a right back outside edge with natural leaning to the right). He's also twisting his hips and rising his left shoulder to create momemtum. That can't work, we remember his fall at NHK...
Another problem with Yuzu's Lutz take-off is that he's not using his right toe pick but the full blade to assist the take-off. That's technically wrong and should be counted as an (awkward) 4Lo by the technical panel. Nathan is only using his toe pick. Boyang dito.

Excuse me Henni but I think these two photos that you use to explain your point are not actually comparable, they have been taken from different angles and at different time steps of the jump. Had Yuzu's photo taken some split seconds earlier and from the same angle of Nathan's, you would not see anything wrong with his technique. Just my personal opinion though.
 
Excuse me Henni but I think these two photos that you use to explain your point are not actually comparable, they have been taken from different angles and at different time steps of the jump. Had Yuzu's photo taken some split seconds earlier and from the same angle of Nathan's, you would not see anything wrong with his technique. Just my personal opinion though.

No, you have a more correct take. Yuzuru's outwards picking and tendency to have next to no pre-rotation on his Lz is exactly why I think those screenshots are not comparable. Yuzuru's already launching himself up there, where Nathan's still PRing, I think.
 
No, you have a more correct take. Yuzuru's outwards picking and tendency to have no next to no pre-rotation on his Lz is exactly why I think that screenshot is not comparable to Nathan's technique. He's already launching himself up there, where Nathan's still PRing, I think.

Well, not that I am a good Lutz jumper myself, I UR most of times. But I am sure in that split second of take-off, with the kind of speed that Yuzu has, he does not have time to "enforces a left outside edge by twisting his ankle". He is on the correct edge before take-off and that edge is carried out to the specific moment that is captured in that photo.
 
And about that one injury causing 4Lz attempt in NHK, the guy was jet lagged and rushed to go into the jump when his body was not ready enough. It's not an attempt where we can talk about his technique. It's like you do some difficult physical activity when you are sleep driven :confused2:

P.S. All this discussion made me to watch his Lz in Rostelcome in Youtube with slowmotion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmCXwXgYSfI&t=315s
Look at his body at 0:45 of this video, clear left outside edge, really really bent left knee and long reach with right toe. Then look at the left edge from 0:44 to 0:46 to see how it simply slides to go to air, there is not even 0.000000001 N/m^2 pressure on that blade. Definitely, there is no assist from his left blade to go into air. Again, it can be only my own take :confused2:
 
And about that one injury causing 4Lz attempt in NHK, the guy was jet lagged and rushed to go into the jump when his body was not ready enough. It's not an attempt where we can talk about his technique. It's like you do some difficult physical activity when you are sleep driven :confused2:

P.S. All this discussion made me to watch his Lz in Rostelcome in Youtube with slowmotion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmCXwXgYSfI&t=315s
Look at his body at 0:45 of this video, clear left outside edge, really really bent left knee and long reach with right toe. Then look at the left edge from 0:44 to 0:46 to see how it simply slides to go to air, there is not even 0.000000001 N/m^2 pressure on that blade. Definitely, there is no assist from his left blade to go into air. Again, it can be only my own take :confused2:

Nah, you are correct. Sure, he can have a really tilted axis on the worst of his lutz jumps (reason why he ended up landing the way he did at COR) but there's absolutely nothing wrong with his technique on that jump when he lands it well. One just needs to watch any of his successful 4Lz attempts in practice, which is basically what he's aiming for, not the bad attempts or the one that he jumped when he was recovering from a fever at NHK. Guy was barely getting height for a 4S that day, according to JPN journalist reports, no wonder he got injured when jumping something harder than that.

There's a lot of things one can critique Yuzu for, according to whatever tastes one has on style, 'balletic posture', music choices, etc., but his toe picking technique is... not really one of them...?
 
One just needs to watch any of his successful 4Lz attempts in practice, which is basically what he's aiming for, not the bad attempts or the one that he jumped when he was recovering from a fever at NHK. Guy was barely getting height for a 4S that day, according to JPN journalist reports, no wonder he got injured when jumping something harder than that.

There's actually videos including his other jumps during nhk practice but most fans didn't watch them because they also contain footage of that fall. Like this one with 4S-3T but don't watch if you don't want to see that fall. I think there was also one which showed other jumps but I can't find it. It was the one with Kikuchi-san checking his ankle backstage.

Google translator is horrible. Could you Japanese friends tell us which award this tweet is talking about? :thank:
https://twitter.com/BluecosmosH/status/989964454702940160
I can't speak Japanese but I think it's about medal of honor. 紫綬褒章 means purple ribbon. I think that instead of getting a second medal he will get an additional bar. Here's an example of such bar.
Upon receiving subsequent Medals of Honor of the same color, the
recipient was not given additional medals; he was given an extra bar
to attach to the medal he already owned.
And a little bit more info about medals of honor: link and link.
 
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