Rafael Arutunian Interview on Marin Honda

[Spinning]

Raf, as always, times his interview to maximize the impact of his opinions very well. I think his recruiting methods at least giving all involving parties time to deal with the switch their own ways (some one would get hurts anyway). I'm sure the part about never approaching any skaters first is a subtle message. There are some rumours regarding poaching skaters lately that's kind of getting out of control after the OG. I thought it was about ice dance or pairs at first but now I might be wrong.

Can't wait for a new season! Team Angels(Raf's) vs Team Super Models(Buianova's) could melt the ice!

 

[GrandmaCC]

Indeed. If a skater prepares well and has a strong technical basis, they likely are more confident in succeeding and will not stress about it as much.

But I still believe that skating functions a little differently from studying for exams, for instance... A skater can be amazing technically yet still get nervous all the same. And in training, you really cannot prepare for the large stage like the world championships. When the stakes are high, it's a different situation altogether.

It always sounded to me as though Frank Carroll takes the Exam Approach you’re talking about, with the “do your job” comments. Like, this is just what you do every single day, just go out there and do what you always do. That’s kinda got an implicit “calm down, no need to be nervous, it’s just another day at the office” built in there, to my ear. Kinda like how the gymnasts will tell each other “normal!!” right before a routine.

Only works though if your normal is actually good and your “days at the office” are consistently good. That’s what I reckon Raf is getting at, gotta have the good base to draw on, otherwise how can you tell yourself to just do your thing - what if your thing is currently falling on a certain jump?

Also - Probably depends on the athlete themselves, how they interpret things. Remember how some viewers freaked out at him telling Gracie that, thinking he’d drained the joy of the sport out of her on purpose and had made it a job/chore? A coach would need to know whether the skater prefers to rise to the occasion of performing in front of a crowd, having a “moment”, or prefers to be calmed right down and have everything blocked out. Pretty personal stuff IMO.

 

[yude]

It was good and insightful interview, I enjoyed reading a lot. Good luck to Marin on reaching her goal!

When I was reading the part of the balance of mentality and physicality, I could not help remembering that Hanyu was saying he could give good performances more often when he was injured, because he could concentrate on himself more and didn't have to aim for clean performances at those time So it might depend on each athlete and occasion, good mentality+good physicality is the ideal for sure though.

 

[el henry]

Very interesting to me how Raf thinks, it explains some of the other comments he has made over the years.

I disagree that simply mastering elements makes one a confident skater. And that doesn’t mean the skater is a “head case”, it means the skater requires a different approach from the coach. A great coach will determine what the best approach is for each student.

Raf is evidently sensitive to “poaching” claims, he also brought it up two years ago when Mariah Bell moved, that Mariah had made the first contact and that he had resisted at first. And Mariah, in my estimation, is a good example of a skater who may need a different approach.:scratch3:

 

[kimi492]

]
Raf is evidently sensitive to “poaching” claims, he also brought it up two years ago when Mariah Bell moved, that Mariah had made the first contact and that he had resisted at first. And Mariah, in my estimation, is a good example of a skater who may need a different approach.:scratch3:

Do coaches even do this? By 'this', I mean hounding skaters and asking for he/she/they to be coached by them? It seems a bit backwards

 

[el henry]

Do coaches even do this? By 'this', I mean hounding skaters and asking for he/she/they to be coached by them? It seems a bit backwards

I don’t know. I don’t think the issue is “hounding”, I think the issue is mean green. Mo’ skaters, mo’ money, to coin a phrase. And it’s considered bad form, at the very least.

But I only know this from reading, not from experience

 

[oatmella]

Raf’s attitude towards the mental side of skating is old-school and doesn’t necessarily apply to all skaters, even if they are very strong technically

One thing I’ve noticed about Raf - he seems always quick to preface that he doesn’t approach other coaches’ students - they come to him. Even going so far to say that Mariah had texted him like 50-something times when she wanted to switch to him and he had only texted her back a few times - this I found rather strange to say. (I may not be recalling these numbers correctly)

But I think overall he came across well in the interview, had nice things to say about Marin and a kind word for Brian Orser - and the goals he expressed for Marin sound challenging but also realistic enough.

 

[ice coverage]

Worth reiterating that neither Mariah nor Kori ever has said a word that would be contrary to what Raf said about Mariah being the one to approach him.
Neither Mariah nor Kori ever has suggested that Mariah was poached.

Given that rumors nonetheless were running rampant on GS (and presumably elsewhere), it is no wonder that Raf was "sensitive" and wanted to set the record straight that Mariah was the one who approached him.

Raf also made it known that he was open to co-coaching with Kori, and that Kori declined such an arrangement.
(Again, not one word from Mariah or Kori in disagreement with what Raf said.)

---

ETA:

If Mariah were to believe that Raf were not the right coach for her, she of course would be free to leave.
Based on Mariah's comments at Jump On It! Camp a couple of weeks ago, sticking with Raf seems to be her plan.​

 

[readernick]

Worth reiterating that neither Mariah nor Kori ever has said a word that is contrary to what Raf said about Mariah being the one to approach him.
Neither Mariah nor Kori ever has suggested that Mariah was poached.

Given that rumors nonetheless were running rampant on GS (and presumably elsewhere), it is no wonder that Raf was "sensitive" and wanted to set the record straight that Mariah was the one who approached him.

Raf also made it known that he was open to co-coaching with Kori, and that Kori declined such an arrangement.
(Again, not one word from Mariah or Kori in disagreement with what Raf said.)

---

ETA:

If Mariah were to believe that Raf were not the right coach for her, she of course would be free to leave.
Based on Mariah's comments at Jump On It! Camp a couple of weeks ago, sticking with Raf seems to be her plan.​

I think she might want to stay with Raf because her boyfriend is there more than anything else. Beyond the intial surge in confidence she got after switching coaches, I haven’t seen any real improvements in her skating. Raf is a great technical coach. He defintely helped Ashley and Adam with their jumps. But, Ashley is still a bit of a headcase too. She doesn’t underrotate in practice but the moment she is competing she does. Nerves. Nathan has also bombed due to nerves. I think Raf would be wise to bring in someone who can help with the mental aspect of skating. Nathan, Marin, Mariah,and Eunsoo would benefit greatly. That being said. You can’t succeed without physical preparation, so he is right about that.

 

[el henry]

I think she might want to stay with Raf because her boyfriend is there more than anything else. Beyond the intial surge in confidence she got after switching coaches, I haven’t seen any real improvements in her skating. Raf is a great technical coach. He defintely helped Ashley and Adam with their jumps. But, Ashley is still a bit of a headcase too. She doesn’t underrotate in practice but the moment she is competing she does. Nerves. Nathan has also bombed due to nerves. I think Raf would be wise to bring in someone who can help with the mental aspect of skating. Nathan, Marin, Mariah,and Eunsoo would benefit greatly. That being said. You can’t succeed without physical preparation, so he is right about that.

Romain followed Mariah to Raf, so presumably he would follow her elsewhere.

I certainly don't think Raf "poached" anyone, but I think it is worth reiterating, as I recall the messages GS at the time, that Raf set those rumors about poaching abuzz himself with his statements. Personally, I wouldn't even have known what "poaching" was without his (IMO defensive) interview going on about how many texts Mariah sent him. But I certainly don't feel like going into the archives to find out what other peple thought and when they thought it

Seeing Mariah's comments about how she intends to work on her jumps, and that will solve her problems, it appears to me she may have bought the Raf theory that increasing her tech will solve her competition nerves issues. I'm not necessarily buying it, but we will see. I do think she intends to stay.

 

[lurkz2]

I certainly don't think Raf "poached" anyone, but I think it is worth reiterating, as I recall the messages GS at the time, that Raf set those rumors about poaching abuzz himself with his statements. Personally, I wouldn't even have known what "poaching" was without his (IMO defensive) interview going on about how many texts Mariah sent him. But I certainly don't feel like going into the archives to find out what other peple thought and when they thought it

Wasn’t this around the time he was making veiled statements about the “poaching” practices of a certain Russian choreographer? That’s one reason for being defensive.

Update: this interview suggests the timing was similar

http://fs-gossips.com/rafael-arutyunyan-some-coaches-cling-to-an-athlete-like-to-a-rocket/

 

[georgia]

I only judge coaches based on results . Under Raf’s guidance Mariah made it to worlds twice, Ashley is a world silver medalist , Nathan a world gold medalist and Adam America’s sweet heart. So he must be doing something right.

 

[oatmella]

Wasn’t this around the time he was making veiled statements about the “poaching” practices of a certain Russian choreographer? That’s one reason for being defensive.

Update: this interview suggests the timing was similar

http://fs-gossips.com/rafael-arutyunyan-some-coaches-cling-to-an-athlete-like-to-a-rocket/

hmm good point

Ah yes the interview where he accused Marina of sweet-talking Nathan into staying with her and by offering him ‘babysitting services’

 

[kimi492]

Wasn’t this around the time he was making veiled statements about the “poaching” practices of a certain Russian choreographer? That’s one reason for being defensive.

Update: this interview suggests the timing was similar

http://fs-gossips.com/rafael-arutyunyan-some-coaches-cling-to-an-athlete-like-to-a-rocket/

I always assumed there was some truth to what Raf was saying - it just seems odd to make something like that up out of nothing

 

[readernick]

I only judge coaches based on results . Under Raf’s guidance Mariah made it to worlds twice, Ashley is a world silver medalist , Nathan a world gold medalist and Adam America’s sweet heart. So he must be doing something right.

I think we can all agree he is a good technical coach. However, in Mariah's case I think she made it to worlds due to luck/an overall decline in US woman's skating talent more than any actual improvement in her skating. She had correct edges and was able to do all the jumps prior to moving to Raf. She just couldn't do them under pressure. I think the same is true now. The whole "poaching' argument is stupid. Mariah obviously wanted to make the change. Suggesting that Raf consider the mental aspect of skating more is not an insult, even good coaches should work to improve. He is doing many things right but his skaters don't seem to have the same mental preparation as skaters from other coaches such as Brian Orser. All coaches should be willing to consider new strategies if they lead to success.

 

[ice coverage]

... I certainly don't think Raf "poached" anyone, but I think it is worth reiterating, as I recall the messages GS at the time, that Raf set those rumors about poaching abuzz himself with his statements. Personally, I wouldn't even have known what "poaching" was without his (IMO defensive) interview going on about how many texts Mariah sent him. But I certainly don't feel like going into the archives to find out what other peple thought and when they thought it ...

For the record:

The "suspicion"/speculation/claim that Raf supposedly approached Mariah was posted on GS in Sep 2016, which led to discussion of (among other things) opinions as to whether posting the "suspicion"/speculation/claim was or was not appropriate. The word "poaching" was part of that discussion.
And in that discussion, one of the posts was from you -- on Sep 9.

AFAIK, it was not until an interview in Nov 2016 (conducted at Trophee de France) that Raf mentioned that he saved texts from Mariah. [ETA: It is the interview linked above by lurkz2.]​

If your recollection is that Raf talking about the saved texts from Mariah is what started the rumors about poaching, then I would say that you have misremembered the chronology of what happened here on GS.

(The rumors were discussed in the U.S. Ladies thread as well as in Mariah's fan thread.)

 

[georgia]

I think we can all agree he is a good technical coach. However, in Mariah's case I think she made it to worlds due to luck/an overall decline in US woman's skating talent more than any actual improvement in her skating. She had correct edges and was able to do all the jumps prior to moving to Raf. She just couldn't do them under pressure. I think the same is true now. The whole "poaching' argument is stupid. Mariah obviously wanted to make the change. Suggesting that Raf consider the mental aspect of skating more is not an insult, even good coaches should work to improve. He is doing many things right but his skaters don't seem to have the same mental preparation as skaters from other coaches such as Brian Orser. All coaches should be willing to consider new strategies if they lead to success.

At skate America way back, Marah’s had many underrotated jumps. I watched closely practices. Yes this year she barely made it to worlds, but the previous time she was a legit third. Also another skater we should not overlook. Brezina! Huge improvement . It’s up to skater to look for mental help
outside the ice. I am an old school too. I also believe a skater is more successful mastering his jumps together with body strength, so the body can work when under stress on memory alone. Let’s not forget only few reach the top. Though Orser is a great coach, he too has skaters who are not doing well all the time. Even his top skaters have moments. You need some luck in skating like in every other profession. Be there at the right time!

 

[Ballade88]

I only judge coaches based on results . Under Raf’s guidance Mariah made it to worlds twice, Ashley is a world silver medalist , Nathan a world gold medalist and Adam America’s sweet heart. So he must be doing something right.

He also played a major role in training Jeffrey Buttle and Mao toward their world titles. I am most impressed with the results Ashley had under his guidance. She really came into her own after going to Rafael and was the most successful US skater of the past decade (3 times national champ, medaling three times at GPF, and a worlds silver medalist).

 

[Tutto]

No denying Raf is a very successful coach and at first I was overjoyed to hear that Kolyada is going to him (a summer camp?) but after reading this interview I got some doubts whether he will be able to help Mika whose main problem is in his head nothing wrong with his technique or stamina
I strongly disagree that the mental strength would follow automatically if the technical is there. Gracie was very well trained, had a good jumping technique (except flip) but we all know what happened

 

[Ballade88]

How much can a coach help a very nervous competitor? I always thought Hanyu had strong mental strength, though his stamina obviously improved after going to Orser. Frank Carroll has been criticized for not helping combat the competitive nerves of Kostner and Gracie Gold, but Michelle Kwan was a strong competitor. I think a good coach can help with improving stamina and confidence, which could help improve the skater's mental game. But it is not guaranteed, because the skater's personality also plays a factor and outside factors in their lives. There were other issues Gold was dealing with at the time. I do believe that every coach should employ a good sports psychologist that can help support the skaters on a long term basis.