Evgenia Medvedeva to train under Brian Orser

[50 Words for Snow]

"Recommend" and "being not allowed to" are different.

Most athletes in most sports are on some sort of regulated diet. Even sumo wrestlers, although the focus for them is weight gain. Still, I would imagine that every athlete has rules concerning what and when they can eat. That's not to say that Eteri isn't malnourishing them, I don't know if she is or she isn't, but to order them not to eat before bedtime is not unreasonable.

 

[chopinskate]

Most athletes in most sports are on some sort of regulated diet. Even sumo wrestlers, although the focus for them is weight gain. Still, I would imagine that every athlete has rules concerning what and when they can eat. That's not to say that Eteri isn't malnourishing them, I don't know if she is or she isn't, but to order them not to eat before bedtime is not unreasonable.

I feel like this wasn't really the way it came off in the interview that happened. There was a big, ugly thread about it here on GS. And after what happened to Lip, it wasn't shocking to see that people were concluding what they were concluding.

I don't know what's up, of course, which is why I left it at that, without speculating.

 

[ladyjane]

Individuals with eating disorders are amazingly resourceful in finding ways to accomplish what they need to while still eating as little as possible.

Whatever the discussion on Evgenia, coaches, etc.: this is totally true. Once you're in there (probably underweight, but it doesn't have to be the case yet), if you've got an eating disorder there's something in the brain that makes you perceive things differently. You'll lie about what you have eaten just to please your dietician, and you'll think of ways to make it look as if everything's normal. You'll even be successful in sports (in fact, usually sufferers from anorexia Nervosa are very active). It's an awful disease and there's - obviously - a big mental component at work.

I know, totally off topic, but I wished to acknowledge this particular remark!

 

[50 Words for Snow]

I would like to see Zhenya competing up until she’s 30 like Caro Kostner. I think the environment with Orser will allow that much more.

I doubt if that will be possible without changing citizenship to Armenia, where there is no real competition for her, and I don't think she will do that, but I would like to see her skate for as long as possible, too.

 

[chopinskate]

Whatever the discussion on Evgenia, coaches, etc.: this is totally true. Once you're in there (probably underweight, but it doesn't have to be the case yet), if you've got an eating disorder there's something in the brain that makes you perceive things differently. You'll lie about what you have eaten just to please your dietician, and you'll think of ways to make it look as if everything's normal. You'll even be successful in sports (in fact, usually sufferers from anorexia Nervosa are very active). It's an awful disease and there's - obviously - a big mental component at work.

I know, totally off topic, but I wished to acknowledge this particular remark!

To add, the body can actually break down protein, fat etc. already present in the body (example in the muscles) to draw energy. If it doesn't find nutrition from food consumption, that's where it will start finding energy from.

 

[50 Words for Snow]

I feel like this wasn't really the way it came off in the interview that happened. There was a big, ugly thread about it here on GS. And after what happened to Lip, it wasn't shocking to see that people were concluding what they were concluding.

I don't know what's up, of course, which is why I left it at that, without speculating.

After Yulia, there are certainly grounds for speculation about how Eteri feeds or does not feed her students, but I don't think a rule about not eating after 6 is abusive by itself. We are probably arguing from the same or a similar side of the issue, and i'm just splitting hairs over one comment.

 

[ladyjane]

I can't help it, I'm a dietician and nutritionist originally. I have to comment. Lets's get one thing straight (and I think most of the posters agree): it's not a problem to be conscious of your diet. That certainly doesn't mean you're never allowed chocolate, crisps or ice cream or even a sporadic visit to a Fast Food Chain. It's all a question of amounts and frequency. And furthermore, knowing a bit about how diets work, you'll also disagree with getting a kind of idea across that eating too little to prevent maturing is very wrong. Now, I've not been there with Eteri - gosh I'm far too old - but I do think it is wrong to get the idea into the heads of young kids that you should eat less to prevent puberty. Puberty is normal, it's normal to develop hips, thies and breasts as a girl. That changes the body balance. Nothing odd here. But I really wouldn't know if that's what's really being promoted at Eteri's school. The only thing I do know, is that Evgenia has been inspired by Carolina (Alina was too, by the way) to become a skater who will continue to skate competetively at a later age, and that she feels that will not be possible if she stays where she is. So, of course she thinks of the coach who already brought other skaters to Olympic heights. Ironically, in the interview he even mentioned healthy diets. But, and that's my point, healthy diets don't have to be low in calories (what, with all this activity) or boring, and/or without treats. If you're a lover of chocolate, a small piece can be fitted in, while the whole pattern can still be considered a healthy diet. It's never the foods as such that you consume, it's the number and frequency of intake that determine whether you're enjoying a healthy diet or not. So I hope Evgenia gets to enjoy a classic (sugary or fatty?) treat every so often, even if they do contain a bit of sugar and fat and less proteins and fibres. And of course I hope this coaching change will make her stay until her 30th...with a normal experience of food and drink, and no stunting of the body!

 

[cruzceleste]

I really think we are so out of subject, the diet aspect of Eteri were already discussed in other thread, rumors or reality.

 

[Osmond4gold]

All of your post, Jane

Having a sister and a sister in law as dieticians, I appreciate this post on balance in life. Yes, good nutrition feeds the body and the mind, and is so important for an athlete building physical/mental strength and endurance. However, at the end of the day, I hope Zhenya enjoys her BigMac complete with fries and an ice cream, once in a while.

 

[axon]

Agreed. Not Med's style of movement. She needs someone to develop strength. Wilson's best results come with someone who has an open quality to their movement, like Yuna Kim, or Jun Hwan Cha.

chopin your tagline(?) and avatar are making me

 

[chopinskate]

chopin your tagline(?) and avatar are making me

Thanks to xeyra for the idea with their wonderful quote in this thread!

Where is this idea Orser is an over-18 senior supremacist coming from, anyway? His talking points in the icenetwork article about raising the minimum age were only about limiting quad training for Stephen and being a bit skeptical of a 13-year old girl keeping quads into her 17-18s. Just because Hersh implies he agrees with Arutunian about girls turning senior at 18, doesn't mean he actually said it. Much like Orser didn't specifically say that Yuzuru would continue 'into the next Olympics' as Hersh implied in a tweet and then in the article itself Orser said nothing specifically about that. Maybe Orser thinks limit should be raised to 16 and not 18, who knows, he didn't say it in any of the quotes.

 

[Izabela]

Thanks to xeyra for the idea with their wonderful quote in this thread!

It makes sense though, I meant the quote. Yuna won her first Worlds when she was 18 and Yuzuru when he was 19. There might be something in there after all!

 

[beachmouse]

What I would support instead of the blanket move from 3 to 4, is that for major competitions like GPF/Euro/4cc/Worlds - they allow the champion (gold medal) to 'defend' their title and that skater be allowed at the event without it counting against their country's allotted spots.

Track & Field has that kind of most recent world champion rule in place for the subsequent world championship, and it seems to work pretty well. It doesn't apply to Olympics, however, because of the fairly tough event and discipline quotas in place and the need to preserve 'universality' spots.

Has there ever been a banned coach?

And how many banned skaters have been?

Maybe we should have a thread on the subject...

USA Figure Skating has a page up with their banned list:

http://www.usfsa.org/story?id=84071&menu=memberservices

Without wading through the bylaws referenced, I'll note that cases referencing SafeSport typically involve accusations of athlete abuse compared to other bans, which may be issued for things like embezzling from a skating club's bank account.

As for abusers getting away with it, we've sadly seen the case of USA Gymnastics where the people who were supposed to protect athletes were willing to turn a blind eye and even cover up incidents when the abuse and abuser(s) seemed to play key roles in global sporting success. As much as we'd like to say 'it would never happen here in my sport' there are bad apples in many parts of the world who entrench themselves in places of trust and create an opaque bubble where they can damage others while inside. These days when the Olympic Channel shows replays of old gymnastics meets, I want to throw things at the tv screen when the Karolyis or Nassar appears on it.

 

[Sugar Coated]

Just to clarify a few points from my last post. I don’t think she actually “beats” them. My point was that the hockey players were scared of her. I think this was mentioned in the Eteri 1+1 documentary. However she is willing to drag a little girl around the ice when she doesn’t make her jumps. So I wouldn’t be surprised if she has gotten physical in some way with the girls although probably not beatings or enough to classify as physical abuse. But something she did was on the radar of the hockey players.

Not eating after 6;00 pm can be a very healthy routine for many people. It was the way she said it though, like she was so hungry and wasn’t allowed to eat after 6:00 pm. I’ll have to rewatch to find it. But if these girls, who may still be growing, are training for 8 hours a day and not allowed to eat during that time period and also not allowed to eat after 6:00 that’s a problem. The sheer number of calories they must burn from their training is astronomical and they are likely needing to burn muscle if they aren’t eating enough. It also may impact their body long term as they are still growing.

Alina also said recently that she only has two meals a day and drinks tea for dinner. Trying to find the Japanese interview with English subtitles for reference.

I think this is relevant to the thread because Zhenya has hinted that these policies might be a reason for her switch. Her implication about health and longevity of her peers seems to be a subtle nod to Eteri.

 

[cruzceleste]

USA Figure Skating has a page up with their banned list:

http://www.usfsa.org/story?id=84071&menu=memberservices

Without wading through the bylaws referenced, I'll note that cases referencing SafeSport typically involve accusations of athlete abuse compared to other bans, which may be issued for things like embezzling from a skating club's bank account.

As for abusers getting away with it, we've sadly seen the case of USA Gymnastics where the people who were supposed to protect athletes were willing to turn a blind eye and even cover up incidents when the abuse and abuser(s) seemed to play key roles in global sporting success. As much as we'd like to say 'it would never happen here in my sport' there are bad apples in many parts of the world who entrench themselves in places of trust and create an opaque bubble where they can damage others while inside. These days when the Olympic Channel shows replays of old gymnastics meets, I want to throw things at the tv screen when the Karolyis or Nassar appears on it.

Thank you for the info. I will look in to it.

The Kayolis, break my hearth, I just loved watching them with the girls and to know what was going behind closet doors :sad4:

 

[Klarnet]

Just to clarify a few points from my last post. I don’t think she actually “beats” them. My point was that the hockey players were scared of her. I think this was mentioned in the Eteri 1+1 documentary. However she is willing to drag a little girl around the ice when she doesn’t make her jumps. So I wouldn’t be surprised if she has gotten physical in some way with the girls although probably not beatings or enough to classify as physical abuse. But something she did was on the radar of the hockey players.

Not eating after 6;00 pm can be a very healthy routine for many people. It was the way she said it though, like she was so hungry and wasn’t allowed to eat after 6:00 pm. I’ll have to rewatch to find it. But if these girls, who may still be growing, are training for 8 hours a day and not allowed to eat during that time period and also not allowed to eat after 6:00 that’s a problem. The sheer number of calories they must burn from their training is astronomical and they are likely needing to burn muscle if they aren’t eating enough. It also may impact their body long term as they are still growing.

Alina also said recently that she only has two meals a day and drinks tea for dinner. Trying to find the Japanese interview with English subtitles for reference.

I think this is relevant to the thread because Zhenya has hinted that these policies might be a reason for her switch. Her implication about health and longevity of her peers seems to be a subtle nod to Eteri.

I can't believe based on one episode of them goofing around as a joke, at which both of them laughed at, conclusion of Eteri the beater is drawn, talk about exaggerating. Such serious accusations of beating and starving before they get thrown at anyone should really not be made without valid proof.

The same concerns "not being allowed to eat after 6:00 pm". Cause Evgenia's own mother said she eats healthy and wholefood 2.5 meals a day. Her quote: "as any other normal woman, she stops eating 3 hours prior to sleep. Figure skaters eat like models". Does this mean that her mother is abusive too, supporting this kind of mindset of eating like model? Judging by that it may as well be that her nutrition regimen comes out of family in the first place.

 

[squall1111]

http://www.globetrottingbyphilipher...kating-olympics-russia-canada-orser-medvedeva


Article about Zhenya and her new training plan at TCC

 

[Ophelia]

The same concerns "not being allowed to eat after 6:00 pm". Cause Evgenia's own mother said she eats healthy and wholefood 2.5 meals a day. Her quote: "as any other normal woman, she stops eating 3 hours prior to sleep. Figure skaters eat like models". Does this mean that her mother is abusive too, supporting this kind of mindset of eating like model? Judging by that it may as well be that her nutrition regimen comes out of family in the first place.

*Puts down midnight snack*

 

[chopinskate]

 

[Danny T]

*Puts down midnight snack*

Can't believe I got shaded by Zhenya's mother either :dumb: