Rafael Arutunian Interview on Marin Honda

[yoloaxel]

I strongly disagree that the mental strength would follow automatically if the technical is there. Gracie was very swell trained, had a good jumping technique (except flip) but we all know what happened

Agreed. On one hand, I think he means that knowing what your body is capable of and knowing you're well trained will give you confidence, but on the other hand a sports psychologist can help greatly - just look at what happened to Nathan at the OG

 

[el henry]

For the record:

The "suspicion"/speculation/claim that Raf supposedly approached Mariah was posted on GS in Sep 2016, which led to discussion of (among other things) opinions as to whether posting the "suspicion"/speculation/claim was or was not appropriate. The word "poaching" was part of that discussion.
And in that discussion, one of the posts was from you -- on Sep 9.

AFAIK, it was not until an interview in Nov 2016 (conducted at Trophee de France) that Raf mentioned that he saved texts from Mariah. [ETA: It is the interview linked above by lurkz2.]​

If your recollection is that Raf talking about the saved texts from Mariah is what started the rumors about poaching, then I would say that you have misremembered the chronology of what happened here on GS.

(The rumors were discussed in the U.S. Ladies thread as well as in Mariah's fan thread.)

Thank you for the link. I see that many people indeed discussed Mariah’s possible, at that time unconfirmed, departure to Raf in this thread and in the four screens I read, I see the word “poaching” used once. The word was used by a poster who was “defending” Raf, made incorrect statements about libel law and IMO was trying to shut down the conversation, in part based on those incorrect assumptions. So I’m not certain I would have paid the word much heed in that context. But it was in fact used once.

And since I believe that no one “wins” the Internet by posting first or last, I will now leave that subject. To me, it makes no difference because I believe Mariah wanted to go to Raf, and Mariah wants to to stay with Raf. Is Raf the best choice for her? I don’t think so, but I’m not Mariah. We’ll see what happens in the upcoming season, and I wish her all the best.

 

[SnowWhite]

How much can a coach help a very nervous competitor? I always thought Hanyu had strong mental strength, though his stamina obviously improved after going to Orser. Frank Carroll has been criticized for not helping combat the competitive nerves of Kostner and Gracie Gold, but Michelle Kwan was a strong competitor. I think a good coach can help with improving stamina and confidence, which could help improve the skater's mental game. But it is not guaranteed, because the skater's personality also plays a factor and outside factors in their lives. There were other issues Gold was dealing with at the time. I do believe that every coach should employ a good sports psychologist that can help support the skaters on a long term basis.

I don't know how much a coach can help, but I think a sports psychologist definitely can. And Kaetlyn Osmond did say after her rough 4CC last season that Ravi helped her focus on excellence instead of perfection (maybe they were working with a sports psychologist - I think she's said she does), and that did result in by far her best FS of that season. So I think the mental attitude discussed in training can have an impact.

Actually Kaetlyn is a good example, because I think with her in 2016-17 it was a bit of a combination of the physical side and mental side. Part of her FS problems seemed to be stamina-related, and improving that probably helped her confidence. But part of the issues were mental too, and it sounds like she needed to also work on that. Just focusing on the physical side wouldn't have been enough.

Or P/C. It made them nervous at first when they had to compete against V/M and they were making mistakes. But their coaches (and I think also a sports psychologist, or maybe the life coach H/D work with) helped them learn to deal with that, and they were much less nervous and mistake-prone this season.

 

[heyheyhey]

Raf students have used sports psychologists before , he’s not against that. I think he’s talking in general that being prepared will help with your mental strength and most important aspect, not that it’s the ONLY way to build mental strength. There’s only so much a coach or sports psychologist can do. There’s too many factors involved that have no simple fixes and depends on the skater how you approach it. Even with Orser, Nam, Gabby, and Adam were not consistent and had nerve problems even when working under him. Adam got more consistent and his performances got better under Raf. Nathan didn’t do well in the SP at the OG but he bounced back in the FS and obviously at Worlds where Raf really tried to prepare him so whatever they’re doing is working. Ashley is one of the more consistent ladies honestly, certainly the most consistent of the US ladies. Mariah has talked about using a sports psychologist since her move to Raf. All coaches will have skaters that they can help get their nerves under control and others that they can’t, just depends on the skater. Ultimately it’s up to the skater whether they can handle it or not. But he’s not against using a sports psychologist and some of his students have utilized it.

 

[ice coverage]

Thank you for the link. I see that many people indeed discussed Mariah’s possible, at that time unconfirmed, departure to Raf in this thread and in the four screens I read, I see the word “poaching” used once. The word was used by a poster who was “defending” Raf, made incorrect statements about libel law and IMO was trying to shut down the conversation, in part based on those incorrect assumptions. So I’m not certain I would have paid the word much heed in that context. But it was in fact used once ....

FYI: The word "poaching" was used by at least two members of GS in the posts preceding yours.

Tavi... was one of the members who used the word "poaching."

---

On topic: Interested to see what kind of results Marin will have with Raf.

Now that Gambill is moving to Colorado, I wonder whether some of her skaters (I do not have anyone particular in mind) -- who perhaps wish to stay in SoCal -- will move to Raf???

(I do not mean necessarily seniors or necessarily Team USA skaters.)

Wishing everyone the best.

 

[temadd]

At skate America way back, Marah’s had many underrotated jumps. I watched closely practices. Yes this year she barely made it to worlds, but the previous time she was a legit third. Also another skater we should not overlook. Brezina! Huge improvement . It’s up to skater to look for mental help
outside the ice. I am an old school too. I also believe a skater is more successful mastering his jumps together with body strength, so the body can work when under stress on memory alone. Let’s not forget only few reach the top. Though Orser is a great coach, he too has skaters who are not doing well all the time. Even his top skaters have moments. You need some luck in skating like in every other profession. Be there at the right time!

Yes, examples of Orser students not always performing well under pressure: Tursynbaeva and Daleman.

But i do believe that coaches need to address the mental aspect. Ask any competitive athlete and they'll tell you that they are not the same athlete mentally in training vs competing. Perfect practice of the athletic skills helps immensely but coaches must have some strategies for mental training too.

 

[cruzceleste]

Yes, examples of Orser students not always performing well under pressure: Tursynbaeva and Daleman.

But i do believe that coaches need to address the mental aspect. Ask any competitive athlete and they'll tell you that they are not the same athlete mentally in training vs competing. Perfect practice of the athletic skills helps immensely but coaches must have some strategies for mental training too.

Borser is not Gaby head trainner

 

[Kelti]

I don't really consider Marin as a skater with nerve issues though. She delivered clean performances in both Junior Worlds, giving her best performance when it counts. Last year was an adjustment year for her I believe, there might have been some misjudgement of how she stands amongst the senior ranks, also the disappointing results in GP might have affected her training up to Nationals.

Also, I think last year Marin's agent went a bit too far pushing her as the Olympics hopeful for Japan, I blame 50% to the Japan media and 50% to her agency on the pre-season overhyping, they certainly played the game well. However, I think that have distracted Marin from the actual training as she was constantly involved in various PR events (again, this is more the fault of her agency rather than the media).

I do have great hope for Marin starting fresh in the new season under Raf's tutelage. She's been off to her new training base as soon as she's done with ice shows, and already have her Free Program choreographed by Lori. With Raf working on her jump techniques over the summer, I'm sure we will have another exciting year to look forward to for the Japanese ladies!

 

[rnois13]

I think Marin tends to doubt herself a lot that she always get so nervous. Raf would have to figure out how to keep her inspired and distance her from overanalyzing things.

 

[lovaticcanada]

Well, to be fair, the hype was on Marin last season because the other Japanese ladies struggled at Worlds and Satoko was injured. She did score 201 points at Junior Worlds which was a few points above Mai's redemption skate at Worlds. In this context, her agent/media pushing her as the favourite wasn't a bad idea.

 

[combinationspin]

Well, to be fair, the hype was on Marin last season because the other Japanese ladies struggled at Worlds and Satoko was injured. She did score 201 points at Junior Worlds which was a few points above Mai's redemption skate at Worlds. In this context, her agent/media pushing her as the favourite wasn't a bad idea.

Marin was hyped in Japan since she was 12 when she was considered a jumping prodigy and and the next Mao.

 

[blackey]

Marin was injured at last year's SCI in case you don't know....

 

[Kelti]

Well, to be fair, the hype was on Marin last season because the other Japanese ladies struggled at Worlds and Satoko was injured. She did score 201 points at Junior Worlds which was a few points above Mai's redemption skate at Worlds. In this context, her agent/media pushing her as the favourite wasn't a bad idea.

Given the pressure she ended up taking on and the results, it didn’t seem like a very good idea. Don’t get me wrong, she was definitely one of the rising star breaking into the 17-18 season, but the whole off-season she was hyped to be the Olympic gold contender. While this is a great dream/goal for this talented young skater, I think the over expectation (pushed by her agency) have gotten to her.

I do think this was a great lesson learnt by Marin, I really look forward to her transformation under Raf’s coaching!

 

[hippomoomin]

Marin strikes me as a sweat girl but lacks competitive fire (vs. skaters like Wakaba, not to mention Evgenia). She is not wakaba type of power jumper, nor does she have a small body like Satoko. Her jumps appear very smooth to the eyes but I am afraid that comes with a good amount of pre-rotation. In her most senior B competition and exhibition, the lack of height in her jumps is pretty obvious. With a growing body, she really needs a coach who excels in jumps. I am sure she has made the right decision.

 

[charlotte14]

Marin was hyped in Japan since she was 12 when she was considered a jumping prodigy and and the next Mao.

While Marin might not have a flutz, her toe pick is even worse than Mao.

 

[oatmella]

Hoping that Raf can really help Marin improve her jumps!

From her move and choice of coach, seems that Marin is aware of what she needs to work on.

 

[combinationspin]

While Marin might not have a flutz, her toe pick is even worse than Mao.

I think her suffering from a bunion is partly responsible for this.
< In Debrecen, Hungary, she did a triple loop-triple toe combo, but the Lutz and the flip are not easy jumps for the World Junior Champion, as she suffers from Hallux valgus, a bunion, on her foot.

“She cannot use the toe very well when she does the flip and Lutz,” revealed Hamada. “It is sometimes hard. She has to do some exercise in order to be strong, to get a strong toe muscle and she is not consistent at all.” > Source https://goldenskate.com/amp/2016/04/marin-honda/
I believe this problem began only after they started hyping her at 12, though. The season before her junior gp debut, she had to take out the lutz from her programs completely athough she had no problems before. But I agree with you, that her take off for the flip and lutz was scary last season.

 

[skatenewbie]

While Marin might not have a flutz, her toe pick is even worse than Mao.

why compare with Mao? Mao didnt even have the worst toepick. Mao does pre rotate a lot in her flip/flutz but her toeloop toepick takeoff was actually good. Even though not as good as Yuna's she still does minimal pre rotation. In flip/flutz her toepick take off was good too aside from pre rotation, she use actual toepick not full blade like Shoma, Evgenia, Satoko, Anna P. etc.

 

[curious]

The reason he hit the jackpot with evgenia is because She is both a superb competitor the best and the most consistent skater. Very lucky man.

 

[charlotte14]

why compare with Mao? Mao didnt even have the worst toepick. Mao does pre rotate a lot in her flip/flutz but her toeloop toepick takeoff was actually good. Even though not as good as Yuna's she still does minimal pre rotation. In flip/flutz her toepick take off was good too aside from pre rotation, she use actual toepick not full blade like Shoma, Evgenia, Satoko, Anna P. etc.

What I said was to reply to the post people hyping Marin to Mao. Because frankly, in my opinion, Marin is a weaker jumper than Mao ever was.