Judges & Referees Webinar for GOE +5 to -5

[Baron Vladimir]

I think some of you are missing the point here. Philosophy of judging in FS is quite different from process of judging in other sports and its more closer with evaluating students work for example. Thats because judges job is to judge quality based on not so distinctive categories which includes subjective involvement in process of judging. Thats why we are getting average opinion of 9 different opinions as something which counts (and which is different from the sum of 9 opinions) ... There would be no logic at all if current quidelines become strict rulles set in stone, because in that case there would be no need for average opinion, there would be only one judge who needs to strictly apply the rules, without judging quality of the elements the way they are judged now.

 

[cohen-esque]

Fair enough, I suppose. I too find myself thinking that some others, whose philosophy on judging seems to be summed up as “there aren’t any real standards and it doesn’t really matter,” as missing the point of judging, in general, and IJS, in specific. But YMMV.

 

[chopinskate]

I think some of you are missing the point here. Philosophy of judging in FS is quite different from process of judging in other sports and its more closer with evaluating students work for example. Thats because judges job is to judge quality based on not so distinctive categories which includes subjective involvement in process of judging. Thats why we are getting average opinion of 9 different opinions as something which counts (and which is different from the sum of 9 opinions) ... There would be no logic at all if current quidelines become strict rulles set in stone, because in that case there would be no need for average opinion, there would be only one judge who needs to strictly apply the rules, without judging quality of the elements the way they are judged now.

Judging students' works still has standards. I doubt you would get 9 people judging wildly differently for C-grade work.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Judging students' works still has standards. I doubt you would get 9 people judging wildly differently for C-grade work.

Some of that is a product of the human cognitive system working in a deficit of time tho Its not because there is no standards, but because standards could not be applied in time. Thats why there is average work of 7 (of 9 possible) cognitive systems which is count

 

[gkelly]

According to ISU Communication No. 2111 (2017/18 list of officials) it looks as though there are 500-600 or so ISU or International singles and pairs judges.

In addition, there are thousands of national and lower judges in various federations around the world who are not (or not yet) authorized to judge international competitions and who also need to get up to speed on new rules.

Most of these judges are never going to judge skaters at the world medal contender level this year. Or if they do judge senior B events attended by top skaters or national championships in federations that have contenders, they'll get to judge one or two of the top skaters in an event with lower-ranked contenders, not all of the top ones against each other.

All of these people need to get on the same page regarding what the new rules are and what they mean.

There are 4 singles and pairs seminars scheduled for 2018 (one was in April, so it wouldn't have covered all the new material).

These ISU Seminars are primarily for the Officials of the Host ISU Member. However, Officials of other ISU Members (not more than 2 per ISU Member) can also attend subject to the availability of places.

So not every international/ISU judge is going to attend a seminar each year. Those who are actively judging will get updates on site at the events that they judge. Maybe there are e-mails that go out to all judges on the international rolls -- I don't know.

Non-international judges in various federations would need training in their home countries.

To the extent that the trainers at local seminars or the referees at international or national competitions have more information about what the technical committee is aiming for with the new rules, a lot of the learning would doubtless happen in these in-person situations. But not every judge would get the same live examples to discuss.

Then there are also ice dance and synchronized skating judges, mostly not the same people.

 

[cohen-esque]

All the better for some actual clear standards, then, that can be more easily communicated to allow all those hundreds and thousands to judge as competently as possible across all situations.

 

[chopinskate]

Well, actually, the point about it being like student's work can harken to a good solution: select judges through a standard of peer review.

 

[russianfan]

"Empty" and "boring" first half of the Alina's program being used by ISU as an example of musicality? LOL

 

[chopinskate]

"Empty" and "boring" first half of the Alina's program being used by ISU as an example of musicality? LOL

You're just never going to let it go

 

[russianfan]

You're just never going to let it go

I. Remember. All. Of. You.

 

[chopinskate]

I. Remember. All. Of. You.

Hey, I defended her victory

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

"Empty" and "boring" first half of the Alina's program being used by ISU as an example of musicality? LOL

@CBC

 

[Andrea82]

So not every international/ISU judge is going to attend a seminar each year. Those who are actively judging will get updates on site at the events that they judge. Maybe there are e-mails that go out to all judges on the international rolls -- I don't know.

To be re-appointed, they have to attend one of these seminars at least once in the previous 4 years.
However, the Judges' pre-meeting and round table discussions at Olympics, Worlds, Euros, 4 Continents, Junior Worlds count as a seminar for re-appointment. So all judges who judged at those events in 2015-18 have met the once in a 4 years requirement.

On the new +/-5 GOE they held a special 4 days (I don't know with how many coffee breaks) seminar held by the Technical Committee on the back of the annual seminar for re-appointment/new appointments of Technical Controllers and Specialists held in Frankfurt this week. It was for ISU judges (attendance limited to 1-2 per country) but countries without ISU judges could send an International judge.
The judges who took part to Frankfurt seminar this week are rerquired to then hold a similar national seminar in their own country.

 

[gkelly]

Thanks for that info!

 

[xeyra]

They have to attend one of these seminars at least once every 4 years to be re-appointed.
However, the Judges' pre-meeting and round table discussions at Olympics, Worlds, Euros, 4 Continents, Junior Worlds count as a seminar for re-appointment. So all judges who judged at those events in 2015-18 have met the once in a 4 years requirement.

On the new +/-5 GOE they held a special 4 days (I don't know with how many coffee breaks) seminar held by the Technical Committee on the back of the annual seminar for re-appointment/new appointments of Technical Controllers and Specialists held in Frankfurt this week. It was for ISU judges (attendance limited to 1-2 per country) but countries without ISU judges could send an International judge.
The judges who took part to Frankfurt seminar this week are rerquired to then hold a similar national seminar in their own country.

Thanks so much for all the info, Andrea82.

 

[4everchan]

"Empty" and "boring" first half of the Alina's program being used by ISU as an example of musicality? LOL

to clarify, for those who haven't looked the videos, they used Alina's choreo sequence to show how it matches the music. Has nothing to do with where it is in the program, and her first half contained other elements as well...

 

[GF2445]

The ice dance webinar was by far the best one.

 

[Tavi...]

They had a few examples from both 2017 4CC and Worlds too... (the ones from Zhenya and Wakaba come to mind) so :scratch3:

Okay, then I’m with you!

 

[Roast Toast]

The ice dance webinar was by far the best one.

I started with it and was shocked when I watched the singles one. The ISU badly needs some quality control, it is not a flattering comparison to allow at all. Showing us absolute best case examples tells us nothing new -- I thought the system was supposed to better differentiate between good/great and bad/terrible elements, which is precisely what the Ice Dance ladies demonstrated. Not to mention they were far funnier, and better, more articulate speakers.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

I started with it and was shocked when I watched the singles one. The ISU badly needs some quality control, it is not a flattering comparison to allow at all. Showing us absolute best case examples tells us nothing new -- I thought the system was supposed to better differentiate between good/great and bad/terrible elements, which is precisely what the Ice Dance ladies demonstrated. Not to mention they were far funnier, and better, more articulate speakers.

I was really confused why people were badmouthing the webinars as I only watched the ice dance one until I realized people hadn't watched the ice dance one yet and were talking about the other disciplines.