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- May 5, 2018
Actually, Brian believes she has heaps of talent. He said what Zhenya showed so far was the tip of the iceberg.
So his opinion is completely opposite to Eteri's...
Evgenia Medvedeva
- Thread starter Totentanz
- Start date
Actually, Brian believes she has heaps of talent. He said what Zhenya showed so far was the tip of the iceberg.
So his opinion is completely opposite to Eteri's...
Totally! The first one was the most memorable for me though cause it was the most notable/disruptive.
She could be really be disruptive big time again.
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- May 5, 2018
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2018
Yes! Good point. :agree:
I agree...
Just because Eteri training approach did not bring out skating skills, big jumps and spins tightly in the box, does not mean Zhenya was limited by relative deficiencies in talent.
Learning styles are not all the same, and Eteri's repetition approach builds consistency but not necessarily perfection. (Julia's mother made a comment in an interview just before Sochi that shocked me at the time...when anyone does something ten thousand times they will learn to do it.)
Brian Orser seems to be at the other end of the spectrum... fewer repetitions, but an emphasis on getting each try correct and clean. (This where he and Lilbet did not see eye to eye.)
We've heard that Stephen Gogolev was only allowed to do a very few quad attempts per day in order to protect his young body....but he is a 13 year old with ALL the quads...
So, we need to see if Brian's approach is a good fit for Zhenya...
I'm very hopeful.
I was very frustrated by what I view as basic issues and errors not getting addressed in someone like Zhenya who I could see as a very talented skater.
From a Canadian training approach, Zhenya's lack of speed, mediocre SS, travelling spins with a very angled skating leg, and prerotation call out to be fixed.
Just as an example of the Canadian idea of what is the standard on spins, this is how Alaine Chartrand trains her spins...see how the spiral is in the box...
https://www.instagram.com/p/BMWw6o9D1FC/?hl=en
And critiquing these issues in Zhenya's skating wasn't falseness or 'hate' ...just things that make no sense in an obviously accomplished and talented skater to those of us coming from a different country that stresses different things.
I'm not saying she didn't deserve her scores...Eteri plays both the strategic and tactical game well, and those deficiencies were not strongly penalized under IJS in the last quadrennial. And we see that Eteri is already working to address them in her younger skaters as she knew they would eventually be penalized in the scoring as edge calls started after Sochi.
But please don't buy into the idea that Zhenya is "a beaver but not a talent" ...
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2018
There is always 95% of work. Med has much and going to take more.
I think what Med is definitely going to take from Canadian school is skating skills and speed. As for jumps and spins well we all saw Canadian championships... It is not the level for Russian ladies.
I think what Med is definitely going to take from Canadian school is skating skills and speed. As for jumps and spins well we all saw Canadian championships... It is not the level for Russian ladies.
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- Oct 20, 2017
I have been following figure skating for 20 plus years and I never had a favorite before Evgenia. She has the total package and her connection to the audience is magnificent. Also, she is an inspiration to the sport and life. I was so impresses that her flexibility improved while she was injured that I starting doing my Pilates and yoga tapes again. I'm still not very good at it but when I don't want to do them I remind myself that I do not have a broken foot -- no excuses.
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2018
See? This is what she does! She just inspires people. It's her super power.
Yes, I read that. I'm not here to bash Zhenya... this is a fest. [emoji6]
As I said, I don't get why folks think it's okay to buy into a view that she lacks innate potential but has amazing perseverance, but it's covert dislike to say "can't her team give some attention to addressing these basic things."
I actually agree with the analysis of those spins in the context of the rules as they were written and interpreted at that time...but those were precisely why many were concerned about the IJS prior to recent changes.
(And people would think the criticism of the IJS was just another covert way to 'hate'.)
As a Canadian with Russian among the cultures in our home, I can see it both ways.
Canadians would be thinking that no matter the other qualities, Yulia's spin at Sochi should not have got more than +1 GOE with that wildness at the end. After all, Canadian novice skaters can do level 3 and 4 spins without traveling...
Flexibility is only one dimension, and doesn't erase basic flaws...and from the Canadian perspective having those flaws should rule out high GOE.
And we see this way of thinking in the new bullet points of the revised IJS -- which is a consensus or compromise of what experts from different countries and training traditions think is important.
I think I can be a fan and say Zhenya's spins are not ideal. She has acknowledged that herself and has identified them as her own priority for improvement for more than a year.
Beyond traveling... ....which one has been able to see from corkscrew etchings on the ice in the highlights replays at a number of GP events even if the spin in question in the analysis wasn't that bad.... her skating leg is often too far out of vertical, which leads to wonkiness on occasion, and Zhenya's speed and flow is not consistent throughout.
By choosing to train in another federation, Zhenya is making a choice to counterbalance the different emphasis between Russian and Canadian skating. On spins, Russian emphasize flexibility, Canadians centeredness, speed and precision. Ideally, we should see both.
As it happens, TCC has an expert spin coach who's job is to ensure all the elite skaters there get consistent level 4s with high GOEs on spins. It may not be fully visible this season, but I sincerely believe that another level of excellence will come to Zhenya's spins....without sacrificing her Russian flexibility.
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- Sep 5, 2017
In my opinion, you are taking it too far. Brian Orser coaches the only (consecutive) two time Gold Medal champion. That is why she went to him, because he is good. Because Brian coaches champions and plenty of good skaters. I don’t think her or for example all the dance teams go to Montreal to get the “Canadian” way of training. Of course they all train different, there’s no one denying that. But I don’t think we should look at this as a Canadian vs Russian thing, we should look at it more like TCC vs Sambo 70.
I wasn't saying that she went to Canada to get the Canadian way of training....
Yes, skaters go to Brian to get the benefits of his elite coaching approach and that of the Cricket team of coaches...
But what is part of that, is that they bring a different philosophy of training and coaching that complements, challenges and fills in the gaps of skaters formed in other federations.
Just as Canadian and US skating strongly benefited from the challenge of new perspectives when a number of coaches (including Eteri) came to North America in the early years after the end of the Soviet era.
I agree absolutely that Sambo70 doesn't represent all of Russian skating... but it seems that other schools of Russian skating that value different things are having difficulty being heard given Eteri's success...another conversation.
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2017
Well given that you empashized Russian and Canadian training a lot, I thought that was the point you were trying to get across. I agree with everyone else you said. Every school is different and every coach is different. Also I don’t believe her ss are mediocre, I have seen worse. They are solid, maybe they can get better of course.
Canadian and Russian is what I know best, in terms of skating, so my analysis just seems to go there.[emoji4]
SS just seem to have a completely different level of emphasis in Canada.... And what is considered good in SS in Canada is a very tough standard to meet.
(Mediocre means, to me, a passing grade that doesn't meet the level of good let alone excellent, but is not poor let alone a fail. Basically, enough to get by or just 'ok'. So, it sounds like we are seeing the same things even if we use different words.)
A key thing to understand is that the time compulsory figures were been phased out competitively, Toller Cranston made a convincing case that SS were foundational for all technique and artistic expression...and Toller's impact on the way Canadians think about skating includes this...
Certainly, there are a few coaches and regions who put priority on getting the jumps and say that the SS and artistry can come later , but the idea that one can't reach the highest level without good to excellent SS runs deep in Canadian skating ....
....and like it used to be with compulsory figures, sometimes the focus on SS can be at the expense of other things.
Just as the idea that one can't reach the highest level of expression without incredible flexibility, ballet and theatric formation runs deep in Russian skating... and can at times risk being at the expense of other development.
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- Feb 12, 2015
I was browsing Twitter and saw a picture of Evgenia with her two silver medals and her hair was in a high ponytail and I was SHOOK because she looked so effortlessly beautiful. I know many on here love her battle warrior hairstyle but I’ve never been the biggest fan.
I understand that hair is not a skater’s biggest priority but I hope she shakes it up in that department this season
I understand that hair is not a skater’s biggest priority but I hope she shakes it up in that department this season
I'd be surprised to see a ponytail in competition unless the role really would benefit from it.
But she's likely to be experimenting with new approaches to her hair, including new updos.
I'm certainly curious to see how her hair will work with the costumes she lands on.
But she's likely to be experimenting with new approaches to her hair, including new updos.
I'm certainly curious to see how her hair will work with the costumes she lands on.
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