Article where Mark Lund making controversial comments on Weir, Lysacek

[chuckm]

Seems like he was the guest from hell....

 

[Spun Silver]

If this show has been airing since November I don't understand why no one has been talking about it. :scratch:

I hold Kerrigan responsible too. It's her show and she could have said or done something to distance herself from Lund's remarks; instead, she echoed them. Lack of a J-school degree is immaterial.(Did Walter Cronkite have one? Does Barbara Walters?) Somehow Kerrigan has managed to become a senior statesperson of US skating and that skating with celebrities show has revived her fame. Thus what she does and endorses (in skating) matters and she is accountable for it.

IMHO, any new skating show that decides to make a splash by gay-bashing the three-time national champion is not worth keeping on the air.

 

[Zanzibar]

...

I hold Kerrigan responsible too. It's her show and she could have said or done something to distance herself from Lund's remarks; instead, she echoed them. Lack of a J-school degree is immaterial.....Somehow Kerrigan has managed to become a senior statesperson of US skating and that skating with celebrities show has revived her fame. Thus what she does and endorses (in skating) matters and she is accountable for it.

Bravo. A voice of wisdom. You've nailed it exactly.

 

[Tonichelle]

As for Kerrigan, she needs formal training in journalism. One earns a degree in journalism, just as one earns a degree in political science, art history, economics, etc.

Could NOT agree more!

 

[heyang]

Nancy Kerrigan's series appears on CN8 for the most part - Comcast's Network.

She usually features Sectionals and Jr Worlds/nationals. I think the episodes from Nov were repeats from last year since they didn't get recorded by my TiVo.

 

[Zanzibar]

IMHO, any new skating show that decides to make a splash by gay-bashing the three-time national champion is not worth keeping on the air.

You make another excellent point. :thumbsup:

 

[antmanb]

To me this is bringing on a whole new "can of worms," separation of Church and FS. And before I would say it is fine to correlate the 2, this would also give right to expressing negatively toward just as much as being positive toward Church. IOW, if a Los Vegas Show girl should not be a part of FS, then should Jesus be? And if someone says "good," then another should have the right to say "bad."

I am really in agreement with the thoughts and ideas here, particularly the irrelevancy. ITA. But I reiterate, there is a factor of what should be and what really is. Making what should be irrelevant, just as irrelevant as what really is.

What JW does is fine IMO, the question is WHY he does it and should it be a part of FS.

The thought that I do wonder about is "offensive" and that "notions" involvement in FS. How can Kat Witt's "offensiveness" be giving a rule against when depiction of "Christ" or "give me attention because I may or may not be gay" be any different? Why is it OK either way and why is it a controversial part of FS anyway? It should be irrelevant IMO too, but it is a topic regardless, it does offend and it appears that it is used as selfish self promotion rather then just expressing ones self anyway.

IMO, Johnny is not just being himself as much as he is trying to get attention by "using hot topics." That is the most controversy IMO, and although I don't agree with Lund's comments I do see why he might feel offended and feel like a movement he believes in is being used for one persons benefit. And the way JW has been skating lately, I see why "his skating can't speak for it's self." Lund and Wier both have the right to voice their opinions whether anyone agrees???

Well as far as i can tell johnny has never asked the gay community to support his skating. He isn't officially out therefore he might not be gay. He hasn't gone around canvassing gay groups for support, nor, as far as i'm aware do gay groups give him any money for his skating costs. Mark Lund was making the leap that he seeks approval/support from the gay community. At the end of the day - no-one gay or straight who isn't a figure skating fan will know who johnny is. A random gay man who doesn't like figure skating is unlikely to turn on the tv to watch johnny skate because there is a possiblity that he is gay.

Mark Lund can say what he wants - if he is claiming that johnny is not representative of his community, well Mark Lund is certainly not representative of mine.

Of course another whole can of worms is what is representative and do we all need to have some kind of representation in the main stream? Non me!

I must also add that i don't understand the link you are making of someone going out on the ice with very few feathers covering parts of their anatomy and somone giong out on the ice dressed as Jesus Christ. I don't think the two are even in the same ball park. It is likely that many people will be offended by nudity (lord knows north america tends to be less tolerant than Europe. But why would anyone be offended by Johnny depicting Christ -his program isn't disrespectful. Banning something like that would cause so many problems...should no "real" characters be allowed to be portrayed on the ice any more?

Ant

 

[antmanb]

And what about the Kat example? OK to be flamboyantly gay but not flamboyantly sexy? Am I way off on that? It should be fine for both or prohibited for both.

No they are not the same thing at all, flamboyantly gay and flamboyantly sexy are not the same thing, if you ban flamboyantly gay from FS (ignoring the descrimintion for one second) then you have to ban overtly straight from FS too - they're different sides of the same coin. So all the "macho" movie sound trakcs with fist pumps can go out of the window too.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

To me that's quite different from a flamboyantly artsy "Camille-and-feathers" outfit. That doesn't say gay sex, it says, "whooty-toot-toot!"

That has to be my favourite quote in GS history!!! If i knew how to make a sig - this quote would be it!

Ant

 

[antmanb]

And Ladies need to ware pre approved clothing attire?
To me that is a double standard.

I think i've made the point several times but costuming and sexuality have nothing to do with each other...i don't understand why Johnny's "Christ" outfit is seen as being gay? Am i missing the point? Was Christ gay? Why is johnny's costume being linked to his possible sexuality? The Witt rule was brought into force because the ISU thought "Tits and A$$" on ice was not an image they wanted to promote. Depictions of christ have very little to do with benig gay.

Would it hurt the sport to have pre approved attire for men just as the Ladies? Did the Kat Witt rule hurt the sport?

Maybe you missed the rule that men are not allowed to wear tights or leggings (and certainly not skirts) does that even the score a little more for you?

Ant

 

[antmanb]

Ban him? Is that the solution, control peoples opinions and freedom of speech? I think Johnny might even say, Lund has a right to think and say what ever he wants about him. Besides, I have got to believe Johnny loves the attention. It is obvious he will take a controversial idea and make it known to the world flagrant and intentionally - like skating for team USA and showing more support for Russia. The guy WANTS it, let him have it as long as it is at no one else's expense.

Everybody's rights and freedoms need to be balanced and held in equilibrium. One persons exercise of their right to freedom of speech may be the oppression of another persons right to live a safe and happy life. Do you believe that racist people should be allowed to print stories and make speeches on TV about the evils of non arians? Hoping that the answer to that is no, then why should someone be allowed to discriminate against someone because of their sexual orientation just becuase it a belief that they hold?

Ant

 

[antmanb]

Thank you momjudi for the scenario and thank you Zanzibar for the youtube link.

I now have an idea of what went on that show and I hope to see the whole show some time. I really do not enjoy speaking or commenting on hearsay which I believe most of these preceding posts were doing.

Just because you didn't go to youtube and look for the clip and waited for it to be posted don't assume that every poster waited for the link to be posted, i'm sure many like me went straight to youtube to try and find the clip (youtube is surely the new visual google!). There was also an article on which people were commenting.

Ant

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

If this show has been airing since November I don't understand why no one has been talking about it. :scratch:

Apparently it's a local show. It doesn't get into NYC.

Lack of a J-school degree is immaterial.(Did Walter Cronkite have one? Does Barbara Walters?) Somehow Kerrigan has managed to become a senior statesperson of US skating and that skating with celebrities show has revived her fame. Thus what she does and endorses (in skating) matters and she is accountable for it.

Indeed, Barbara Walers went to Vassar. Journalism was her field. She wrote news scripts for NBC before becoming an anchor which she hated because she could not read the news. Cronkite, I believe is a grad of Columbia University School of Journalism. And this is what I was talking about the difference beween an amateur and a professional journalist.

Die hard skating fans see their aging favorites become great actresses when exiting the skating world without ever going to a Fine Arts School. Jodi Forster, Meryl Streep, etc did and notice the difference between them and our new found skating actresses.

IMHO, any new skating show that decides to make a splash by gay-bashing the three-time national champion is not worth keeping on the air.

Agreed :agree: And you don't have to be humble about bigotry.

Joe

 

[chuckm]

I saw the show by watching it on my computer when in aired again on CN8 last night (I have satellite, not cable so don't get CN8). It was bad, bad, bad, not only for what Lund said about Weir, but what all three of them said about the skaters. Lund is a jackass, and so was Lou TIlley. Kerrigan lost control of her show and she deserves to take a major hit for allowing Lund's petulant display to dominate the program.

Interesting that a disclaimer that "the opinions of the commentators do not necessarily represent those of the show, the sponsors, CN8 etc." crawled across the screen from time to time.

 

[Spun Silver]

Just because you didn't go to youtube and look for the clip and waited for it to be posted don't assume that every poster waited for the link to be posted, i'm sure many like me went straight to youtube to try and find the clip (youtube is surely the new visual google!). There was also an article on which people were commenting.

Thanks for making this point. I did see the clip of Lund and Kerrigan discussing JW. (Either I missed Tilley or he made no impression on me.)

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I saw the show by watching it on my computer when in aired again on CN8 last night (I have satellite, not cable so don't get CN8). It was bad, bad, bad, not only for what Lund said about Weir, but what all three of them said about the skaters. Lund is a jackass, and so was Lou TIlley. Kerrigan lost control of her show and she deserves to take a major hit for allowing Lund's petulant display to dominate the program.

Interesting that a disclaimer that "the opinions of the commentators do not necessarily represent those of the show, the sponsors, CN8 etc." crawled across the screen from time to time.

Finally a critique of the show. thank you chuckum.

Now what do you think the verdict should be after watching one show?. Bear in mind that If Kerrigan's husband is fitting the bill, I doubt anyone else will pick it up.
Should the show be removed from air? Is there any hope that the show might improve? Since I don't go to Youtube for news, and the show will not be seen in NYC, have there been previous shows which are ok with a sensitive viewer?

Again, thank you for the critique.

Joe

 

[Sylvia]

I watch Kerrigan's "World of Skating" for the skating footage (Eastern Sectionals, Junior Worlds, Evening with Champions show, Japanese Nationals coming up!). Lund's one-time (hopefully ONLY time!) appearance in the 2007 Nationals preview show does not negate the overall value of the show, IMO.

Did anyone watch the CN8 show following the Nationals preview?

ETA: Since it's kinda OT for this thread, I've reposted my question in the other CN8 skating thread:
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15233

 

[Mathman]

Indeed, Barbara Walers went to Vassar. Journalism was her field. She wrote news scripts for NBC before becoming an anchor which she hated because she could not read the news. Cronkite, I believe is a grad of Columbia University School of Journalism.

If I am not mistaken, Barbara Walters went to Sarah Lawrence College in Bronxville, N.Y., and majored in English.

Walter Cronkite attended the University of Texas briefly but never graduated. He does have a journalism school named after him, however -- The Walter Cronkite School of Journalism at the University of Arizona.

As for Nancy Kerrigan's qualifications, I think it would be more fair to compare her to other jocks-turned-commentators. Terry Bradshaw, perhaps. rofl: )

 

[Mathman]

Antman, I think SeaniBu's point about costumes can be cast more cogently (and briefly, LOL ) like this.

1. Men's figure skating suffers at the box office because many sports fans think it is too artsy-fartsy.

2. If the ISU had some rules forbidding baubles, bangles and beads, that might help.

I think the counterargument should be

1. Skating is artsy. If you don't like that, you are not going to watch anyway.

2. Naw, it wouldn't. Plus, it would detract from allowing the performers their full range of expression.

Something like that.

 

[Mathman]

Mark Lund thinks Johnny should butch up his costumes. I wonder how he feels about plucked eyebrows?

http://images.zap2it.com/20060120/marklund_foxtca06_240.jpg