Mira Leung

[Tigger]

You're saying Patrick Chan's already washed up? The kid's 18 and only his second year Senior in Canada for crying out loud!!

Oh, I forgot....That doesn't matter...

Oh and BTW...Everything about Mira that is being talked having happened at Skate Canada, it happened!! Kind of tough to miss Mira's panties showing from under her skating dress. I wasn't there, was watching it on CTV and I noticed that, the ripped tights and horrible looking skate boots right off the bat. I mean, it was kind of hard to miss.

Ooops...I forgot. That just an optical illusion.

I will add this to the portion of the thread where there is respectful debate going on instead of name calling...

I attended last year's Cdns and the day after the Ladies LP's, SC had Joannie, Lesley and Mira up in the concourse signing stuff and also doing the picture thing. Joannie and Lesley looked so happy to be there and thrilled to be meeting the fans. Mira though....Yes, she smiled and said all the right things, but that smile did not reach to her eyes or her face. It was like the only reason she was there was because she had to.

And before it's pointed out to me that Joannie and Lesley had to be there too, I do know that. However, both were delighted to be there and it showed in their body language. Not so for Mira.

The last couple of years....I just wonder if she's really happy, you know? W/such a controlling Mama making sure she eats, drinks, sleeps and *lives* skating w/no other socialization w/her own peers...I just worry about her. I noticed during Mira's piece on the new "get to know the skaters" fluff piece CTV's been doing these Championships that she was very stiff and appeared to be searching hard to come up w/answers to the questions.

Everyone else so far has been able to answer those questions w/a very at ease manner. I mean, it's not that hard to be able to say what your favourite meal is or at least it shouldn't be. It was like Mira searching for the *right* answer and there is no right or wrong w/stuff about your personal preferences for food or music or whatever!!

And that's not picking on Mira. That is being legitmately concerned. What if Mira, (Insert deity of choice here) forbid, had a career ending injury tomorrow? I honestly wonder if she would know what to do w/out skating because it really is all she knows.

I do wish the Cdn judges would do her a badly needed favour and call her on what the World judges are calling her on. Her techinque needs to be reworked. She's got a flutz to begin w/, but most times it's also prerotated. I have to go back and look at the tape again, but I could have sworn I saw a couple of two footed jumps there tonight.

Not as obvious as Shawn Sawyer's triple axel attempt in the SP tonight, but I could have sworn... My Mom asked me about it too because they were upstairs watching, I was down here and they thought they saw Mira land two jumps w/a two foot as well. Now for them to pick up on something like that, then...

It truly is a shame, but at 18, it's getting awfully late in the game for Mira to fix her techinique. One amazing and thrilling part of tonight was watching how deep we are starting to get in Senior Ladies again!! That was one of the best Senior Ladies final flight from Canadians that I have seen in a very long time!!

Next year, Cynthia will be all the way back and if she stays away from the injury bug, she will be a factor. She has a ease and flow to her skating that no one else in Canada has. SkateGods willing Megan Duhamel will also be healthy. I mean, poor girl's been through enough this season for ten skating seasons. Healthy though, and only training for singles instead of splitting time between it and Pairs, she will also be a factor next year. Then there's Lesley...and Samson...And Amanda Billings if she's finally done voodoo on her injury woes...And whomever is going to step up and shock our socks off....

I'm not saying Mira hasn't improved since going back to Joanne, I mean, you compare those train wrecks her GP events were and it's a Quantum Leap between then and now. I'm just wondering if she's on the edge of finally getting it that there's more than just the jumps, they need work and her doing that very thing or adding another name to the list of "He/She/They had so much potential...I wonder what happened?"

Oh and speaking for myself...I don't appreciate being labelled a "loser" simply because we are disagreeing over something so minor in the grand scheme of the world.

And that is my epic for the day....

 

[disco]

iloveaxel...

Are you for real? Seriously, there is much more to skating than merely rotating (or, under-rotating, as the case may be!) 3 times in the air (awkwardly) and landing on one foot. NOBODY here is disagreeing with you that Mira has a remarkable ability to skate consistently. NOBODY.

What people ARE saying, is that the level of her skating skills is just not as high as most other skaters. Honestly - take off the Mira-coloured glasses and just WATCH her skate. It's palpably obvious that the most basic of skills has not been given due attention - or, if it has, it's certainly not been mastered! Her stroking is poor; her posture leaves much to be desired; her expression, though improving, is still unconvincing.

She does have a nice spiral sequence. She's quite flexible, granted. But all the other criticism labeled against her are valid.

You may not understand this, but let me try to make an anology to music.
Now, imagine you have a singer who is extremely proficient. She sings beautiful musical phrases; her tone is wonderful - smooth, supported, etc.; her musicality and expression are undeniably excellent; her intonation (being able to sing in tune) is great; her overall image is impressive.

Now... she sings a song, and for the most part it's wonderful - just 1 or 2 noticeable cracks - the untrained ear picks up on them, so they stand out.

Then, singer B gets up. Not a pleasant tone (needs more work on breath support); her expression is non-existent; her sense of tuning hovers around the right note, but is never secure or convincing; her phrasing is poor, and she seems to just be concentrating on all the high notes in the song. She makes all the high note (albeit a little strained). No noticeable errors.

Now - who gets first? The singer who can actually SING, but who made a couple obvious errors? Or the singer who CAN'T really sing, but who made it through her song without doing anything obviously wrong that the average person would notice? I can tell you that it's obvious which one would win.

Such is the case with Mira and others. With some skaters, just their plain, basic elements like stroking are worth more than a cheated/under-rotated 3flip-2loop.

Disco

 

[krenseby]

iloveaxel...

Are you for real? Seriously, there is much more to skating than merely rotating (or, under-rotating, as the case may be!) 3 times in the air (awkwardly) and landing on one foot. NOBODY here is disagreeing with you that Mira has a remarkable ability to skate consistently. NOBODY.

What people ARE saying, is that the level of her skating skills is just not as high as most other skaters. Honestly - take off the Mira-coloured glasses and just WATCH her skate. It's palpably obvious that the most basic of skills has not been given due attention - or, if it has, it's certainly not been mastered! Her stroking is poor; her posture leaves much to be desired; her expression, though improving, is still unconvincing.

She does have a nice spiral sequence. She's quite flexible, granted. But all the other criticism labeled against her are valid.

You may not understand this, but let me try to make an anology to music.
Now, imagine you have a singer who is extremely proficient. She sings beautiful musical phrases; her tone is wonderful - smooth, supported, etc.; her musicality and expression are undeniably excellent; her intonation (being able to sing in tune) is great; her overall image is impressive.

Now... she sings a song, and for the most part it's wonderful - just 1 or 2 noticeable cracks - the untrained ear picks up on them, so they stand out.

Then, singer B gets up. Not a pleasant tone (needs more work on breath support); her expression is non-existent; her sense of tuning hovers around the right note, but is never secure or convincing; her phrasing is poor, and she seems to just be concentrating on all the high notes in the song. She makes all the high note (albeit a little strained). No noticeable errors.

Now - who gets first? The singer who can actually SING, but who made a couple obvious errors? Or the singer who CAN'T really sing, but who made it through her song without doing anything obviously wrong that the average person would notice? I can tell you that it's obvious which one would win.

Such is the case with Mira and others. With some skaters, just their plain, basic elements like stroking are worth more than a cheated/under-rotated 3flip-2loop.

Disco

Is Mira aware of flaws in her basic skating? She has tried to do something about her musical expression so maybe she will work on her basic skating too.

Who knows though? I heard that bad stroking is incredibly hard to fix, so tough that skaters who really want to improve give up on it because it's such an overwhelming change to execute.

 

[blue dog]

Mira's skating reminds me of this program:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HasTC8ZRD_o

 

[rain]

All those trash talk of her panties, makeup, holes, rumors of her mom is just so pathetic and cheap. Frankly it reflects the very unflattering side of Canadians. They always like to focus on trivial things and most of current Canadian skaters are lacking of competitive spirits. It's a culture of encouraing the weak ones and may I say, the losers.

This is highly offensive and totally uncalled for. You don't improve your argument, you simply make the board an unpleasant place with such comments.

 

[hongligl]

Stop counting anybody out. There is not point to trash one in order to praise one's favorite. Whoever is better will show it herself in competition. I saw improvement in both Joannie and Mira. Mira really looks better in her two new costums and new hairdo. Joannie appeard more powerful in her skating and more polished at the same time. But she does need to have all her jumps. At this stage I believe Joannie is a better bet for a World medal. Mira's chance is slim. Mira needs to pay attention to details and correct her techniques and take some drama lessons. Her starting move of her head in the SP did not look the intended "flirtious " at all

 

[mskater93]

Fixing Basic Skating

Basic skating CAN be corrected with concerted effort from the skater. At that level, it is NOT that difficult to do if the skater WANTS to. I am an adult skater and was told by some judges where I live that I needed to fix some posture and technique with my basic skating if I wanted to do well at the Adult Gold level (single Axel and a couple doubles). I spent all of summer 2005 working on the US Figure Skating Intermediate MIF and passed them in December of 05 while maintaining my technical level with jumps and spins.

As a contrast, when I got a critique on my free program this past summer from a judge after a local competition, she told me she loved my softer knees (she was an international dance judge for several years) and my (seemingly) effortless flow and edge quietness/security along with my straight back and shoulders pressed down. In 05, it was hard to skate "pretty" but it has become more second nature and I only have to think about it when I get near the end of my program.

With the above, I can say Mira seems to only be concentrating on taking off from a position that approximates the jump she's attempting to do, rotating close to 3 times, and landing on one foot. She's got a lot of things where you look at it in real time once and you can't quite put your finger on it, but you want to say "ick" because it's just lacking in some aspect.

Her basic skating has improved a little since I first saw her skate a few years ago, but it's very obvious that she thinks it's only about the 70 seconds of the program that is completed off the ice when it's not the entirety of what it's about. I have the same complaint about some lower level kids in our area who are working on Axels but can't stroke without toe pushing or who don't know the difference between inside and outside edges. (No, I am not making this up, either!)

And to the person that said you can't teach competitiveness, YES, you can. There's a book called "The Inner Champion" for competitive figure skaters which is available and it is sports psychology for figure skating to teach you how to get into the zone and how to prepare mentally to compete and it honestly DOES work. Other competitive figure skaters have worked effectively with sports psychologists (I remember Roz Sumners talking about it at the 84 Olys).

To me, the thing that really can't be taught is open mindedness/pliability. If a skater isn't willing to try new techniques or work on the things their coach is teaching, that's where you have problems.

 

[iloveaxel]

:

Oh and BTW...Everything about Mira that is being talked having happened at Skate Canada, it happened!! Kind of tough to miss Mira's panties showing from under her skating dress. I wasn't there, was watching it on CTV and I noticed that, the ripped tights and horrible looking skate boots right off the bat. I mean, it was kind of hard to miss.

I attended last year's Cdns and the day after the Ladies LP's, SC had Joannie, Lesley and Mira up in the concourse signing stuff and also doing the picture thing. Joannie and Lesley looked so happy to be there and thrilled to be meeting the fans. Mira though....Yes, she smiled and said all the right things, but that smile did not reach to her eyes or her face. It was like the only reason she was there was because she had to.

And before it's pointed out to me that Joannie and Lesley had to be there too, I do know that. However, both were delighted to be there and it showed in their body language. Not so for Mira.

The last couple of years....I just wonder if she's really happy, you know? W/such a controlling Mama making sure she eats, drinks, sleeps and *lives* skating w/no other socialization w/her own peers...I just worry about her. I noticed during Mira's piece on the new "get to know the skaters" fluff piece CTV's been doing these Championships that she was very stiff and appeared to be searching hard to come up w/answers to the questions.

...
And that's not picking on Mira. That is being legitmately concerned. What if Mira, (Insert deity of choice here) forbid, had a career ending injury tomorrow? I honestly wonder if she would know what to do w/out skating because it really is all she knows.

I do wish the Cdn judges would do her a badly needed favour and call her on what the World judges are calling her on. Her techinque needs to be reworked. She's got a flutz to begin w/, but most times it's also prerotated. I have to go back and look at the tape again, but I could have sworn I saw a couple of two footed jumps there tonight.
...

Next year, Cynthia will be all the way back and if she stays away from the injury bug, she will be a factor. She has a ease and flow to her skating that no one else in Canada has. SkateGods willing Megan Duhamel will also be healthy. I mean, poor girl's been through enough this season for ten skating seasons. Healthy though, and only training for singles instead of splitting time between it and Pairs, she will also be a factor next year. Then there's Lesley...and Samson...And Amanda Billings if she's finally done voodoo on her injury woes...And whomever is going to step up and shock our socks off....

I'm not saying Mira hasn't improved since going back to Joanne, I mean, you compare those train wrecks her GP events were and it's a Quantum Leap between then and now. I'm just wondering if she's on the edge of finally getting it that there's more than just the jumps, they need work and her doing that very thing or adding another name to the list of "He/She/They had so much potential...I wonder what happened?"

Oh and speaking for myself...I don't appreciate being labelled a "loser" simply because we are disagreeing over something so minor in the grand scheme of the world.

:

Those ridiculous psycho-analysis of the most trivial things is exactly what i called the unflattering side of Canadians. How do you know she is not happy? Are you her mom? How do you know her smile is not for real but Joannie and Hawker's is? You makes her look like a pity animal locked in a cage... It's just bizarre.

Your little 'princess' Cynthia is nowhere near coming back. Her lutz, flip, loop are an awol. She can posture, she can pretend to be 'pretty' at international stage, but unfortunately she will likely get crushed by international judges with those pathetic jumps. You usually saw at least 10 or 20 this type of 'pretty princesses' at worlds, they all appear graceful for the first 30 second, but after fall after fall, your attention just can't be focused on them. Cynthia, just like these poor girls, will likely be eliminated at Q round. There's no way this kind of program can score 98 points. Personally, I don't even find her that 'attractive'...

To call Mira two GP events train wrecks is also factually wrong. At 'Skate America', she didn't skate well because she's trying 3+3, that obviously did not work; At 'Skate Canada', she scored a PB short program, which was very close to what she did here; her long program score was also close to her PB even with several downgraded triples. The other Canadian ladies you mentioned, I don't even think it's worth debating.

Anyway, your whole argument is just another reinoforcement of my 'loser' theory on Canadian skaters...

 

[nadster]

Mira has improved her presentation at this year's Canadians. I also noticed an improved spiral sequence in the short program

However many technical issues remain. She skates too slowly and her jumps have neither height nor distance. 3-3 combinations will be impossible for her as she gets no flow out the first jump in her combos. I think she might if others make mistakes squeak into the bottom of the top 10 but realistically she will not get any higher until she fixes those technical problems.

Phaneuf has done really well considering she hasn't competed for 2 years ( and couldn't even train jumps this summer) and it was accompanied by a huge growth spurt. The triples that Phaneuf landed had far more height and distance with good run out. And Mira can't even lick Phaneuf's skates in terms of speed, line and presentation.

Remember iloveaxel , Phaneuf did have all the jumps before injury. This coming summer will be Phaneuf's first summer when she will be able to train fully ( assuming no more injuries) . The fitness and power is obviously there, it is just a matter of time before she regains those other triples.

 

[iloveaxel]

Remember iloveaxel , Phaneuf did have all the jumps before injury. This coming summer will be Phaneuf's first summer when she will be able to train fully ( assuming no more injuries) . The fitness and power is obviously there, it is just a matter of time before she regains those other triples.

Of course, I knew she had all triples before growth spurt. She exploded terribly at both Nationals and Worlds in 2005 even with those triples, and almost lost one spot for Canadian women. I was very negative towards her because of this. She should have long retired.

It's just delusional for you to assume she'll get those triples back so easily. How many skaters have actually gotten those triples after growth spurt? Almost zero. That's why it's called 'puberty monster'. She is just too tall and has the tendency to grow big if her diet is not tightly controlled. I have two photos of her in Nov, 2006, she was big!

She was a loser before and will likely be a loser in the future.

 

[skatingmom]

iloveaxel:

When I read all your posts, they sound as if we would be listening to Mira’s mom taking, if she would even be posting in these forums. What you say is so consistent with Mira and her mom's approach that makes me think. Are you? Because most people, even those that like Mira's skating, would admit the truth of the comments that people are making here. I could understand if would not agree with the points about artistry and such, after all Elvis also lacked these qualities and we still liked him. But I cannot understand how you can disagree so strongly with the points people are making about her personal presentation, hair, make up, showing underwear, tights, dresses and lastly but extremely important: the issues about dealing with her coaches. Unless you are indeed her mom, off course.

 

[SeaniBu]

But I cannot understand how you can disagree so strongly with the points people are making about her personal presentation, hair, make up, showing underwear, tights, dresses and lastly but extremely important: the issues about dealing with her coaches. Unless you are indeed her mom, off course.

I don't see how anyone would disagree with those factors missing in Mira's presentation. There is a point (yes even me the "don't go overboard guy") where one should realize this is FS for goodness sake, and it is a part of it. Sorry but the last pic we are all looking at, I mean how can you not notice. Mira has a pretty smile, but if she can't "bleach" her upper lip at the very least... I mean how in the world can Mom..... I just don't get that aspect of it at all.

For God's sake whoever, let her get her lip bleached, a soft pink lipstick, bright rubbed blush, some eyeliner and a hint of copper eye shadow at the very least.

 

[Mafke]

I don't have a dog in this fight but my 0.02,

- sometimes a fan likes a skater that others don't really connect to. One of my favorite LP's of the early 90's was 93 Euros lp by a long forgotten Dutch skater (Reike?) who finished very close to last (of those that made it to the lp). That didn't prevent me from seeing that her technique was flawed (she made a habit of landing on the wrong edge and swooshed her free leg close to the ice to keep from kareening out of control).


- irregardless of the strengths and weaknesses of Leung as a skater, the indirect picture of her mother is a typical skating mother from hell (of the kind that burdened Chin, Bonaly and more recently McDonough)

- she (or her mother) has made a lot of choices that alienate both fans in general and their federation as well (sometimes skaters get into fights with their federations for good reasons, that does not appear to be the case here).

- I remember Peggy Fleming used to rail on Soviet skaters who performed in dirty boots and she was absolutely right. A neat appearance is not an unreasonable request

- fans don't require ladies to be obsessed with make-up but Leung (or her mother) seem to be purposely dressing her as a frumpy 12 year old in a group session (or the six time champion of Lesser Flutzitania rather than the elite international athelete representing a rich country that she is.

 

[silver.blades]

Anyway, your whole argument is just another reinoforcement of my 'loser' theory on Canadian skaters...

Are you saying that Canada is the only country that is hard on some skaters and not others with or without reason? Don't brand an entire country losers. :disapp: You cannot justify that. Watch the lables you put on people. Especially large groups

 

[iloveaxel]

Are you saying that Canada is the only country that is hard on some skaters and not others with or without reason? Don't brand an entire country losers. :disapp: You cannot justify that. Watch the lables you put on people. Especially large groups

Sorry I apologize, just frustrated that some Canadians fans just dont' get it. You can't send out those regular 'losers' to international competitions again and again in anticipation of different results.

 

[demarinis5]

Of course, I knew she had all triples before growth spurt. She exploded terribly at both Nationals and Worlds in 2005 even with those triples, and almost lost one spot for Canadian women. I was very negative towards her because of this. She should have long retired.

It's just delusional for you to assume she'll get those triples back so easily. How many skaters have actually gotten those triples after growth spurt? Almost zero. That's why it's called 'puberty monster'. She is just too tall and has the tendency to grow big if her diet is not tightly controlled. I have two photos of her in Nov, 2006, she was big!

She was a loser before and will likely be a loser in the future.

Lord have mercy on us all!

 

[iloveaxel]

Lord have mercy on us all!

http://www.kurtfiles.com/images/coi06/dsc_1050.jpg
http://www.kurtfiles.com/images/coi06/dsc_1041.jpg
http://www.ifsmagazine.com/forum/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=1163

These are the photos before she was properly and carefully 'packaged'...

 

[Tigger]

Hey Gang...Just a suggestion here, but the Ignore feature here makes reading these threads much more enjoyable...

Just a thought!!

 

[Mathman]

OK, now, it's possible to cheer for our favorite without calling the others losers.

It's not a question of Skate Canada putting one skater forward and holding another back. You do a national competition. Whoever wins goes to worlds.

As a moderator I hate heated threads like this, because it means that I have to wake up from my nap and read every post to make sure there is no flaming going on. So give me and the other mods a break, OK?

 

[dutchherder]

Hooray for Mathman! Our conquering hero!


The kids are having trouble playing nice on a couple of threads right now.