- Joined
- Apr 9, 2016
3+2 may still be enough, this will be clear by France.
2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating
- Thread starter Spirals for Miles
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2013
The 3S also looked weird. It was small(Medvedeva was measured as having just about the biggest 3S out of all senior ladies) and the -3T afterwards was very UR(uncalled). This was her strongest jumping element in the past.
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2017
Hehe, and Medvedeva is the new Slutskaya: let's remember the 98/99 Season, where she missed a lot of important competition to come back stronger after that. :agree:
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2016
That's so true. Watch and compare the PCS. In FS it was: http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1819/gpcan2018/SEG004.HTM . I can't help but say, what kind of idiot could give Panenkova the lowest grade in PCS among ALL participants? I'd say she was roughly on par at least with Yamashita (while hers were inflated) and way above the most there. The entire PCS grading is such that I can barely resist using all my taboo wording vocabulary.
Actually she often got an ! even in the previous seasons, sometimes nothing, the thing is with Eteri she used to have only 1 lutz between the two programs, they knew the outside edge was her weakness and they were trying to hide it rather than fixing it.
Now Brian wants to fix it but because she's not there yet, she makes the same mistake 3 times between the SP and the LP, and these are points you lose.
I don't think the judging was that harsh too besides the calls for the steps sequence that were just ridiculous. What's the time limit for that? cause yesterday i saw judges calling level 2 (it happened many times between ladies and men) in the middle of the element, despite the skater was still doing twizzles and turns.
The comparisons with Evgenia from previous seasons makes no sense, cause if you look at her previous programs she used to have a lot more transitions, plus the arms variations, regardless you liked it or not, these gave her high GOEs, and also because of the new rules she can't no longer have the fully backloaded SP.
I think it was refreshing to see Evgenia still fighting for the podium, because since she went to Canada it almost feels like she was happy no matter what even in the SP where she made a major mistake. She needed a medal here, missing the podium would have generated a backlash towards her and towards her coaches, cause we are all used to see her winning most of the time. In a way this was a huge win for her.
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2014
hi guys. Can i just share something (not off topic since Evgenia is a Russian ladies skater). LOLZ.
Anyway, it's just so weird that I find myself rooting so much for Evgenia. I'm so invested in her now. I used to really root against her lolz. Even at the Olympics! Now? I want her to be the champion she once was.
I see a trend here. When Slutskaya was defeated in the GPF by young Mao, i was so flabbergasted and upset, only to find myself turning to Mao for inspiration after irina retired. Then when Mao was upstaged by Evgenia at the 2015 GPF I believe, I was so upset. I even swore off figure skating! When Mao retired, I had no new icon. Now it is clear. I have turned to Evgenia for inspiration. Funny, isnt it?
Go Evgenia! I have no problem with the conservative scoring of late provided they apply it across the board---even as against Alina.
Anyway, it's just so weird that I find myself rooting so much for Evgenia. I'm so invested in her now. I used to really root against her lolz. Even at the Olympics! Now? I want her to be the champion she once was.
I see a trend here. When Slutskaya was defeated in the GPF by young Mao, i was so flabbergasted and upset, only to find myself turning to Mao for inspiration after irina retired. Then when Mao was upstaged by Evgenia at the 2015 GPF I believe, I was so upset. I even swore off figure skating! When Mao retired, I had no new icon. Now it is clear. I have turned to Evgenia for inspiration. Funny, isnt it?
Go Evgenia! I have no problem with the conservative scoring of late provided they apply it across the board---even as against Alina.
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2013
The SP StSq was definitely not a lvl 4. There was a hop on the second combination.
Not sure about lvl 2, though. That would have required about half a dozen mistakes on the steps. Perhaps she missed one of the choreography levels(rotations and body movements).
Not just here, in general.
Like judges called Dasha's steps sequence level 2 in the free while she was still doing twizzles.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2012
You can read such posts from the "new Twitter generation" of figure skating fans. Yuzuru's pretty face
brought them to the FS :yes:. Their opinions are spreading among them like the wildfire. They are too young and too arrogante. There are adored and hated persons by them. You have a bet to what group Eteri belongs to.. 
Evgenia costumes are really irking me. Why a blue dress for Orange colored sky that doesn't look jazzy? And the black dress for a tango that is not one bit tango. Even if she wanted a black dress at least make it like satoko fs costume. Evgenia used to have the best costumes in the field but now the choices are just meh.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
I‘ve already commented in Zhenya‘s fanfest but I‘m doing it here again.
Saying it bluntly: This was a difficult competition to watch. I‘d have never predicted a mistake as it happened in the SP and I think Brian and Zhenya wouldn’t have either. It shows a lot about her strength to come back in the FS like that. I‘m proud of that. It shows that despite the problems she‘s facing, despite the nervousness and her not being 100% ready, her strong personality is still there.
I know there are people out there who expect her to be completely consistent and are willing to turn on her because at the moment she‘s not. Honestly, even I expected her start of the season to go a lot smoother than it did and was somewhat shocked. But this GP taught me one thing: Evgenia is human. It took her this long to make major mistakes in one of her programs, it took her an injury and changing her whole life. That‘s a lot. She‘s achieved a lot. Now things aren‘t all rosy, I definitely see that. She needs to work on her steps and spins, for someone of her level it‘s not excusable that she keeps getting level 3s and Vs. Her e on the second lutz was a clear message: you can get away with 2 but fix the edge before you put in 3. It will be her team‘s decision whether or not they‘ll ditch the second one in the FS or not. I think it would be strategically more wise since that‘s a lot of points she lost there in the FS. That + the UR on the loop + the spins issues likely cost her the silver medal and maybe even gold. The UR seems to be definitely a lack of stamina. They need to work on that, she keeps doing Loop combos in practice (like 3S-3Lo, 2A-3Lo), it can‘t be an issue on the jump itself. Maybe do more full run-throughs if that‘s what she needs. The choreography looked better now that she performed it with more determination and grit, she got level 4 on her step sequence in the free. That‘s good.
As for the SP: Backloading the combo seems risky. Maybe she could do a 3F-3Lo as the opening pass later in the season. Is the 2A required to be the solo jump in the SP? Otherwise she could backload that and do her 2A-3Lo if the 3F-3Lo fails. Anyways, for now the backloaded combo seems too much of a risk. I know it was probably put there because they banked on her consistency and hoped to beat Zagitova with it + better PCS. But for now the goal isn‘t really to beat Alina, she‘s far out of reach at the moment. What she needs to do now is be clean and try to regain her status as Russia‘s #2 because Liza seems ready to grab it.
She‘s got a month to work before France. It‘s a tough field with Rika Kihira there and she likely needs to win to go to the GPF. That will be pressure. Let‘s see how she copes.
But all in all, for me it‘s a good sign that she can come back with a good FS after such a disastrous SP. It’s also way too early to blame her coach for everything. Such mistakes are costly but they can happen to everyone. Just because they never did to Zhenya doesn‘t mean she‘s immune to them. Also about her pretty low score: judging‘s much harsher this season at the GP so far. It will be interesting to see whether the trend continues next week in Finland. She could have got a score even high enough to win without that e on the lutz, no UR and no issues on spins. If she works on that, I can see her score being closer to what she got last season again.
Saying it bluntly: This was a difficult competition to watch. I‘d have never predicted a mistake as it happened in the SP and I think Brian and Zhenya wouldn’t have either. It shows a lot about her strength to come back in the FS like that. I‘m proud of that. It shows that despite the problems she‘s facing, despite the nervousness and her not being 100% ready, her strong personality is still there.
I know there are people out there who expect her to be completely consistent and are willing to turn on her because at the moment she‘s not. Honestly, even I expected her start of the season to go a lot smoother than it did and was somewhat shocked. But this GP taught me one thing: Evgenia is human. It took her this long to make major mistakes in one of her programs, it took her an injury and changing her whole life. That‘s a lot. She‘s achieved a lot. Now things aren‘t all rosy, I definitely see that. She needs to work on her steps and spins, for someone of her level it‘s not excusable that she keeps getting level 3s and Vs. Her e on the second lutz was a clear message: you can get away with 2 but fix the edge before you put in 3. It will be her team‘s decision whether or not they‘ll ditch the second one in the FS or not. I think it would be strategically more wise since that‘s a lot of points she lost there in the FS. That + the UR on the loop + the spins issues likely cost her the silver medal and maybe even gold. The UR seems to be definitely a lack of stamina. They need to work on that, she keeps doing Loop combos in practice (like 3S-3Lo, 2A-3Lo), it can‘t be an issue on the jump itself. Maybe do more full run-throughs if that‘s what she needs. The choreography looked better now that she performed it with more determination and grit, she got level 4 on her step sequence in the free. That‘s good.
As for the SP: Backloading the combo seems risky. Maybe she could do a 3F-3Lo as the opening pass later in the season. Is the 2A required to be the solo jump in the SP? Otherwise she could backload that and do her 2A-3Lo if the 3F-3Lo fails. Anyways, for now the backloaded combo seems too much of a risk. I know it was probably put there because they banked on her consistency and hoped to beat Zagitova with it + better PCS. But for now the goal isn‘t really to beat Alina, she‘s far out of reach at the moment. What she needs to do now is be clean and try to regain her status as Russia‘s #2 because Liza seems ready to grab it.
She‘s got a month to work before France. It‘s a tough field with Rika Kihira there and she likely needs to win to go to the GPF. That will be pressure. Let‘s see how she copes.
But all in all, for me it‘s a good sign that she can come back with a good FS after such a disastrous SP. It’s also way too early to blame her coach for everything. Such mistakes are costly but they can happen to everyone. Just because they never did to Zhenya doesn‘t mean she‘s immune to them. Also about her pretty low score: judging‘s much harsher this season at the GP so far. It will be interesting to see whether the trend continues next week in Finland. She could have got a score even high enough to win without that e on the lutz, no UR and no issues on spins. If she works on that, I can see her score being closer to what she got last season again.
my thought on her both dresses is that they are great by themselves, but her practice outfit would work better in both of the programs.
Her SP dress looks like dress for a generic Averbukh program, and her FS dress looks like her Karenina black dress.
#hatersgonnahate
I would just correct you on people's expectations.
Since her move, there was many talk, from officials, coaches, zhenya herself and fans, on how she moved to Orser to improve, and how she is improving everything.
So we expect that she will actually improve from what she was back in 2016-17 or at least 2017-18. Right now, there is a huge regress, and small if none improvements. Zhenya was skating better last year while injured than now while non injured.
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2017
Nice post!
Yes - the 2A must be solo. So if she upgrades her SP, it would look like this:
3F-3Lo
2A
--
3Lz
or
3F-3Lo
3Lz
--
2A
However, for now, I think they should move the 3F-3T to the front and move either the 3Lz or 2A back.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
Well, she was close to getting surgery on her foot last season because she kept training at 120% all the time. Maybe Eteri‘s strategy would have ensured her another season of dominance that‘s only rivaled by Alina but after that the juniors are coming up and she wouldn‘t be able to keep up with her Olympic technique and layout. And she‘d already had backpain last season and we all know how dangerous an injured back can be to a skater‘s career. Anna Pogorilaya and Polina Tsurskaya call to mind. I‘m not agreeing with everything her team does, some of the choices they make are pretty questionable to me. So, it‘s not that I‘m trying to protect Brian Orser at all costs here.
I‘m trying to be reasonable because I realise what her utter dominance the years before even meant. Has there ever been an athlete with such a consistency streak before? Who didn’t lose a single competition for 2 1/2 seasons? So, expecting her to go back to her 2017/18 status means expecting for her to be perfect again. Not make mistakes. I think her consistency was heavily dependent on Eteri’s full run through strategy but most importantly her mental strength because we’ve seen even Eteri skaters fail spectacularly. Maybe this method isn‘t working for Zhenya anymore. Her body might not be able to handle it same for her mind. Now she tries to change everything and come back stronger because she frankly doesn‘t have a chance otherwise. Staying with Eteri and maybe even coming back to her 2017/18 technique won‘t work next season. She was winning everything because there was nobody who could challenger her in TES and because she didn‘t make mistakes. But now Alina is surpassing her in TES, Rika Kihira and not to mention the juniors coming up next year. What she needs to stay relevant is a better technique than the rest of the field, better skating skills and so on. Consistency and also an improved layout. I‘m not even saying she‘ll necessarily get that under Orser. But under Eteri she‘d have been surpassed and forgotten for all the juniors that turn up. This can happen next year, too. But at least now she made a change and showed that she‘s willing to go back to the basics and improve from there. Will this work out? We‘ll see. Brian said his approach takes at least one year to work. It‘s a journey and it‘s not exactly an easy one but I‘m willing to wait.
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2015
He didn't exactly help Yuzy to stay away from injurieS. same about Elizabet.... Who was in a terrible shape during OG with injured hip and back ..... same goes to other his students. Junhwan...
Don't you get tired of this bs "Saint Orser" already? :sarcasm:
It's a sport.
Uhm, Zhenya may have got acceptable levels and GOE under the previous scoring, but she herself knew that her spins were not great. She said at least two years ago that is was an area that she wanted to improve.
But please, to see the issue, one needs to get beyond the idea that spins are principally a demonstration of flexibility.
Respectfully, I suggest that you look at the skating leg and the skating foot on the ice in her earlier videos. Also look at Alina and the the Juniors with Eteri.
They are wobbly in the upper body as they mature because the technique involves a very large circle to be drawn with the skating foot. This in turn means they are at greater risk getting off axis and of travelling.
It also puts more stress on the lower back.
And lastly, in the view of many it does not create as beautiful a silhouette.
Clearly, as with many other technical issues, Eteri has chosen a spin technique that can work well with a youthful physique. This is a strategic decision.
BUT let's not be surprised that it needs to be set aside with a mature female physique.
And let's also recognize that it isn't a classic Russian technique either.
We don't see the skating leg and foot of Russian Ladies from other schools at that weird angle.
Nor do we see skaters of Russian coaches abroad spinning that way.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
Erm, no offense but have you read my post at all?
“I‘m not agreeing with everything her team does, some of the choices they make are pretty questionable to me. So, it‘s not that I‘m trying to protect Brian Orser at all costs here.“
What exactly about that is me defending the “saint Orser“ narrative?I’m not saying Orser is a saint at all. And about Eteri I’m just saying that her methods obviously don‘t work for Zhenya anymore. Injuries happen to everyone, every team, no one is safe from them. Not Orser, not Eteri. It’s not Eteri’s fault Zhenya got injured at all. But Eteri relied and is relying on constant full run-throughs, something that puts a lot of pressure on the body. It gets good results but Zhenya is aiming at Beijing (how realistical that goal is is not up to debate) and with an already injured body, I‘m not sure she could have continued to work for longer with Eteri. That‘s all. I‘d ask you to be a bit more objective, actually read a post before you respond to it and be a bit calmer. Talk with reason to me and we can start a discussion. Because, I’m sorry but I really can’t take a post like this with uncalled for accusations seriously.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2013
I'm not too fazed about Evgenia's result here. If she's indeed in the rebuilding phase and not healthy, this was actually a very good result, even with the untypical SP mistake. Her body has also changed, which is a normal part of life, and it takes time to get used to it. She showed very good mental resilience in the free. She still is one of the biggest favorites for making the GP final.
I don't understand the 'she should return to Russia' talk - IMO there is no going back now that she's made the big step. Because who in Russia is better than Eteri? I'm fine with Evgenia under Orser's guidance, and more than willing to give them time to understand each other and produce wow programs. But I wish for one thing- that the old packaging and choreography (sans backloading and miming) was back. This is my second viewing of her programs, and I still think the music, packaging and choreo are uninspired, boring, and not suited to the on-ice personality that she is at present. She looked so much better wearing the flower wreath in the KnC than with the mediocre bun and mediocre costume during the program. Just my personal opinion. I criticize because I care.
I don't understand the 'she should return to Russia' talk - IMO there is no going back now that she's made the big step. Because who in Russia is better than Eteri? I'm fine with Evgenia under Orser's guidance, and more than willing to give them time to understand each other and produce wow programs. But I wish for one thing- that the old packaging and choreography (sans backloading and miming) was back. This is my second viewing of her programs, and I still think the music, packaging and choreo are uninspired, boring, and not suited to the on-ice personality that she is at present. She looked so much better wearing the flower wreath in the KnC than with the mediocre bun and mediocre costume during the program. Just my personal opinion. I criticize because I care.
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2014
Not to turn this thread into the Evgenia thread but I think Evgenia saw the writing on the wall. If she had stayed with Eteri she would have probably had 1 more season like last season- second to Alina. But with Eteri’s juniors coming up she would have dropped even further in that groups ranking. Evgenia knows she would have to change to try to make it another 4 years. Her previous coaching wasn’t a bad situation or bad technique- but it wasn’t sustainable for her anymore. That’s not a bad thing and there are many reasons for this.
Whether or not she can make it another 4 years remains to be seen but no one will be able to say she didn’t try. I’m also going to assume that none of us here can do a tripe-triple or level 4 spin so we should maybe be a little more understanding of how difficult it is to do. She needs to get back to getting consistent level 4s and I think she and her team will take the technical lessons here to heart. I do see improvement in her 2a.
I want all the ladies to be successful and happy wherever they choose to be.
Whether or not she can make it another 4 years remains to be seen but no one will be able to say she didn’t try. I’m also going to assume that none of us here can do a tripe-triple or level 4 spin so we should maybe be a little more understanding of how difficult it is to do. She needs to get back to getting consistent level 4s and I think she and her team will take the technical lessons here to heart. I do see improvement in her 2a.
I want all the ladies to be successful and happy wherever they choose to be.
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