Compulsory Dance: The Waltz Ad Nauseum
- Thread starter Tesla
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Noooo don't say that .All the top three have good ODS so it wil be exciting .I really hope Den/Stav are first as they are my favourites then Del/Shoe second and Dom/Shab third.It could go any way we'll just have to wait and see.I'm really liking K/N they impressed me very much yesterday in the CD .I wonder where P/B would have placed ?Can't wait to see all the Tangos tomorrow .Go Delshoes and Denstas
.Go Delshoes and Denstas
Now that works since we can't simply use D/S to indicate who we mean. However, "Delshoes and Denstas" sounds rather like a pair from Lithuania....
Yeah, the CD is where the judges can give the illusion of holding a competition that is not predetermined. Afterwards they can point to the results and say, see, there really is movement, even at the top. We saw the same at the Olympics. But it is interestiing how Dom/Shab are suddenly competing with the top tier of skaters and beating the world champions in one portion of a competition. That's called sending a message. The results of the OD will give more information.
Actually, I've always thought that it was the CD (or CD's, in the case of earlier years) that were in part responsible for the rigid rankings and the 1-1-1, 2-2-2, 3-3-3-3. 4-4-4, etc, stuff we saw prior to CoP. I believe in the CD there are LEVELS of technique, etc, of course, but really, I would be hard-pressed to tell, most of the time, the difference between the CD execution between any of, say, the top 4. (This isn't always true, but IMO it generally is.). And quite frankly, I don't think the judges can tell either; so in the past I seriously think it was a case of, well, hell if we know, so let's just go by last year's rankings and call it good. At least in the OD and FD there are various other aspects to judge that can make a difference even if the technique is all on the same level.
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2006
After DomShabs skated it was perfectly clear they danced a better GW than DenStav, with much better interpretation.
After DelSchoes skated, they were so technically perfect you felt they had to be marked first, and they were.
Though I don't know why I bother posting this, as you'll all continue believing in conspiracy theories and political shenaigans and call for the sport to be abolished!
I shall continue to enjoy the Dance at Euros, and wonder why you aren't starting threads as to why and how D&W suddenly got elevated to 2nd at Senior Nats in the CD? Good grief? Could it be because they're a talented couple, improving all the time, and they actually deserved it? I would imagine so, I didn't see the competition, but I would guess that'd be it, cos ofcourse American Judges can't be corrupted can they?
After DelSchoes skated, they were so technically perfect you felt they had to be marked first, and they were.
Though I don't know why I bother posting this, as you'll all continue believing in conspiracy theories and political shenaigans and call for the sport to be abolished!
I shall continue to enjoy the Dance at Euros, and wonder why you aren't starting threads as to why and how D&W suddenly got elevated to 2nd at Senior Nats in the CD? Good grief? Could it be because they're a talented couple, improving all the time, and they actually deserved it? I would imagine so, I didn't see the competition, but I would guess that'd be it, cos ofcourse American Judges can't be corrupted can they?
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2005
I cannot agree more La Rhumba! :agree:
Thank you for that La Rhumba!! Sadly, a snowball has a better chance of surviing in a volcano than me seeing the CD's from Euros on Cdn TV, but it certainly sounds from reading Anna's report that it was judged fairly. The CD's are also only one part of the compeition and it is scary close.
This is going to be fun to watch to see how it all shakes down.
This is going to be fun to watch to see how it all shakes down.
Noooo don't say that .All the top three have good ODS so it wil be exciting .I really hope Den/Stav are first as they are my favourites then Del/Shoe second and Dom/Shab third.It could go any way we'll just have to wait and see.I'm really liking K/N they impressed me very much yesterday in the CD .I wonder where P/B would have placed ?Can't wait to see all the Tangos tomorrow .Go Delshoes and Denstas
Yes i can't wait neither for the tangos.....There it will be much harder for the judges to push down Den/Sta-not that they care very much....after all,unfortunatelly,there is no bulgarian judge...And as Albena said they will be probably the only couple in the history competing for gold without a judge...But she also said that they expected some no fair judging(actually i think that only Del/S were surprised by the scores
and they are almost ok with that....and they will dance for their own pleasure and for the pleasure of the public...Soooo GO Albena and Maxim
....your tango and free dance are a class over the others
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
I disagree. In the past the CD was used to set up competition results exactly how judges like from the start. As Paul Martini once said in compulsories there are very fewer distinguishable differences between the teams, especialy that the untrained eye who does not pick up the subleties(eg-most skating fans)can pick up. So that allowed the judges to play their games there he said. Placings did not change from program to program up until the new COP. In the harder programs-the OD and FD, the judges could justify keeping teams they want higher for political or personal bias reasons, over better and more deserving teams, based on the standings after the CD.
Anyway I wont complain about the results of a Euro CD I did not see. People on this thread state they were reasonable so I believe that. All 3 are good teams even though I dont like Domnina/Shabalin in general that much. We will see what happens in the later stages.
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2004
abbreviations
BDS = Bulgarian D/S
RDS = Russian D/S
FDS = French D/S
I didn't see BDS's CD but I did see RDS and FDS (alas only Polish Eurosport, I couldn't make it to Warsaw, grrrrrrrr).
The technical analyst (Sylwia something) clearly thought RDS were better than BDS (partly due to waltzes being a particular strength of RDS and a comparitive weakness of BDS comments echoed here). She thought FDS were the best technically but lacked a certain ... go-for-broke waltziness that RDS had.
I'm suspicious of _any_ quick rise through the ranks of Ice Dance. In fact, I'm suspicious about every single facet of Ice Dance judging without exception (part of the reason I pay less attention to it than free skating) but ... to my untrained eyes FDS were technically brilliant (to the extent that CD's allow for that) but maybe a tiny bit rigid. RDS were close behind technically and a little freer rhythmically with a little more liltiness.
The thing that makes me the most suspicious about the Rise of RDS is that the scoring seems to have been tweaked in their favor giving more emphasis to lifts (a strength of theirs) and less to footwork (not a strength of theirs and a strength of BA, especially A).
I'll await the OD to see what I think about the status of the top teams (historically I enjoy FDS more than any other team in the field today but that seems to count for very little).
BDS = Bulgarian D/S
RDS = Russian D/S
FDS = French D/S
I didn't see BDS's CD but I did see RDS and FDS (alas only Polish Eurosport, I couldn't make it to Warsaw, grrrrrrrr).
The technical analyst (Sylwia something) clearly thought RDS were better than BDS (partly due to waltzes being a particular strength of RDS and a comparitive weakness of BDS comments echoed here). She thought FDS were the best technically but lacked a certain ... go-for-broke waltziness that RDS had.
I'm suspicious of _any_ quick rise through the ranks of Ice Dance. In fact, I'm suspicious about every single facet of Ice Dance judging without exception (part of the reason I pay less attention to it than free skating) but ... to my untrained eyes FDS were technically brilliant (to the extent that CD's allow for that) but maybe a tiny bit rigid. RDS were close behind technically and a little freer rhythmically with a little more liltiness.
The thing that makes me the most suspicious about the Rise of RDS is that the scoring seems to have been tweaked in their favor giving more emphasis to lifts (a strength of theirs) and less to footwork (not a strength of theirs and a strength of BA, especially A).
I'll await the OD to see what I think about the status of the top teams (historically I enjoy FDS more than any other team in the field today but that seems to count for very little).
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2006
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2006
Excuse me? You're in Poland? And you don't even know the name of Sylvia Novak? You then go on to make endless points about how suspicious you are of Ice Dance?
Who cares when you clearly don't even know anything about it or anybody invloved in the sport, that's what drives me nuts about these forums, people pontificating on the technicalities when they know nothing about it!
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2004
Excuse me? You're in Poland? And you don't even know the name of Sylvia Novak? You then go on to make endless points about how suspicious you are of Ice Dance?
Who cares when you clearly don't even know anything about it or anybody invloved in the sport, that's what drives me nuts about these forums, people pontificating on the technicalities when they know nothing about it!
You are certainly free to ignore anything I write here.
No I didn't associate the name right away (nb. the correct spelling is Sylwia Nowak, now Nowak-Trębacka) but please where did I "pontificate on the technicalities"?
I specifically say 'to my untrained eyes' and purposely used impressionistic rather than trying to use technical language (which I would certainly misuse).
I'm suspicious of _all_ ISU judging, just maybe more so of Ice dance because of its rep (deserved or not).
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- Aug 9, 2006
Sylwia competed for many years and is well known as a former dancer with Sebastian Kolasinski, retiring after she fell pregnant. She also trained as a Technical Specialist with Marika HB, the TS in Warsaw. I feel that anybody au fait with Dance would be very familiar with this, especially as you are, being in Poland. I just find it sad that with a fairly judged top 3 for once there is endless suspicion and criticism, and as I love the discipline it upsets me when I read this endless knocking. 
By all means knock when it needs knocking, but the top 3 is very fair. :agree:
ETA: This is the CD Thread, and it was on the subject of the merits of the CDs that I objected to your comments, more or less saying they were worthless in another thread [in Anna's forum], and that Dance shouldn't have 3 segments to the comp - ofcourse it should! That's what I meant about ponitificating without knowledge.
By all means knock when it needs knocking, but the top 3 is very fair. :agree:
ETA: This is the CD Thread, and it was on the subject of the merits of the CDs that I objected to your comments, more or less saying they were worthless in another thread [in Anna's forum], and that Dance shouldn't have 3 segments to the comp - ofcourse it should! That's what I meant about ponitificating without knowledge.
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