2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating
- Thread starter Spirals for Miles
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2017
Tarakanova qualified for Senior Nationals by making the JGPF team.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
I would score them pretty equal despite those reasons being completely different.
I think people tend to underestimate how good Sasha’s skating skills are. She’s more of a power skater than Alena and it’s completely different styles but both girls have great Skating Skills. I also think Sasha has the best programs from Danil this season and is more dynamic. Both girls slay the transitions. I can’t think of any reason they shouldn’t score equally when they both deliver good performances.
My main point is two skaters can score the same 9 in SS with completely different strengths
I would like to respectfully disagree here because I do not think Sasha should get the same PCS as someone like Alena or Anna. Let me explain why:
I think at the current junior level few ladies can match the skating skills of Alena Kostornaya, she even beats a lot of seniors too. Just like few can match Anna's musicality or Sasha's power. The three of them have very different strengths which intrigues me so much about this trio.
Sasha has good skating skills, no question about that. Her transitions are crazily difficult and she obviously deserves high marks there. However, I don't think you can compare her to Alena at all. While Sasha's SS aren't bad by any means, Alena carries herself across the ice in a very different way. Her edges are marvelous, deep, precise. The only one I could compare to her technique would probably be Anastasia Tarakanova who gains speed really quickly by doing just a few strokes.
I think Sasha and her team are working on this. Here is an interview I found from March this year with Daniil:
https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...terview-on-trusova-kostornaia-erokhov.103620/
Here is a short extract about Sasha:
"Nice catch. And what are her weaknesses?
A: We need to work on stroking, the second mark. I do not want our athletes to unbalanced. For someone to have good jumps, someone have good spins or skating skills. I want them to do the best they can."
So I think they know that skating skills is an area Sasha should and certainly can and will improve on.
And it's not only skating skills. It's about the interpretation part as well. As already mentioned above, Anna has a special talent in this regard. Every step, every movement is done right to the music. But it doesn't look like she's just ticking of the boxes the way her choreographer told her to do. She feels the music and we as the spectators believe her. SHE carries the music, not the other way round. With Anna, it isn't just a pretty girl dancing and jumping to beautiful music. It's a girl who's feeling the music. And all this while performing extremely difficult technical feats. It's what I love about this sport.
Alena is a bit similar to Anna even though to my mind the latter is still ahead of her in this department. Alena is extremely graceful and wonderful to watch on the ice and she certainly shows that she's interpretating the music really well, especially for her age. Her performance in Linz - especially in the SP - was emotional and left me speechless. However, I still think she is able to improve even more. Some comments from Daniil about Alena:
"I can not name any of her weaknesses. She is a very balanced skater. Excellent spins, high-quality jumps, good skating skills. We can work on the basics, because Alena can show even more powerful skating. But she still does not understand how much more effort she needs to put in her skating. It is easy to her. She skates well. But he does not understand yet how much better she can do it. She has to understand this with her body, how much power she needs to put in a step, in a push, to make it look fascinating, edgy and beautiful. All this needs perfecting."
This essentially confirms what I'm saying. Alena is a very good skater, she is elegant and beautiful and extremely graceful. She has all the qualities and she shows them. But she needs to learn how to own and feel every single movement and step the way I think Anna does.
Sasha on the other hand is a bit behind both of them in this regard. She likes to jump the most and you can still see it. She is powerful and dynamic and when she jumps it's like a literal explosion (SP 3Lz-3Lo...just wow!) but other than that she still looks like a girl who's doing what she's been told to do. She does it extremely well but it doesn't look like it's coming from her heart. She doesn't have to be graceful like Anna and Alena, she's the athletic, powerful type and I would never want her to change that. What I would want is for her to interpret her programs better, to feel them more. Currently she is faking to punch the judges in the face but her own expression is blank while doing it.
This isn't necessarily a bad thing. Sasha is still so young and she has tons of time to improve. And she actually does! The difference between last year and now is very obvious. And I don't mean the added quads (or not exclusively at least) but more her spins that have become a lot better and her interpretation. She still needs to work on this but she's shown some signs of improvements which is really good!
It also doesn't mean Sasha is bad at anything mentioned in this post. It's just that Alena and Anna have very special talents in the PCS department and also aren't lacking transitions so her PCS score should be higher. I know that TES always influences PCS so I can understand why Alena's PCS aren't as high as I would like them to be in comparison to Sasha. But Anna has the quads, she has all the difficulty. In my opinion, if she is clean there should be a bigger gap between her and Sasha.
About the programs: I like Sasha's programs. They suit her general style very well. Especially the SP is exciting to watch for me. Are they the best programs from Daniil this season, though? No. Because I prefer Alena's and Anna's short programs a lot more. So I think "best programs" is a very subjective thing that can't exactly be judged because it will differ for everyone.
I would like to note here that I love and admire every single member of the 3A. And while Alena holds a special place in my heart because I just enjoy watching her skate the most and I also saw her live which makes you root for a skater even more, I can also see the qualities of Anna and Sasha. I'm really looking to seeing them battle it out at the JGPF. They are all amazing and I want them to have a successful, healthy career and lots of performances they can be proud of. So, when I'm evaluating their strengths and weaknesses, I try to do it with rationality. I don't dislike any of them so what I'm saying above is how I personally see each of these amazing skaters' talents and the things they can improve on. I don't think they are similar at all, they have different strengths and I think this should be portrayed in their scores.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
boooy.. I never thought some people here could become even more.... ridiculous. :roll9:
I guess no one shall be underestimated.
You know, it might help if you provided arguments to the things you think are "ridiculous" instead of just complaining. Everyone is allowed to have their own opinion and while I do think Ziotic's calculated PCS score of Alina could have been a bit higher, I appreciate that they took the time to actually think about it and share detailed explanation of their thoughts with us instead of just screaming "Alina is SOOO overscored!" without giving any examples of why they might think so. We don't have to agree with this calculation and I think it could end up as a very interesting discussion if it was led respectfully and honestly. I don't have a problem with people's different opinions even if they are different from mine. I have a problem if someone just bolts in here and complains about whatever bothers them - be it the ridiculousness of the overscoring of some skaters or the ridiculousness of some posters without providing examples or explaining their thoughts in a reasonable, logical way. I think it's unnecessary and destroys the purpose of this forum which is to discuss and talk about the Russian ladies.
I agree. Like I said, my decision would've probably looked different too. I would have settled for a style she's more used to for her SP and the "foreign" tango for the free. It would have given her more time and things wouldn't be so stressful now. But it's her decision not ours.
I'll apologise for the second part, though. I didn't mean Evgenia only knows "dramatic and cute" and probably stated it wrongly. I think the majority of what she's done so far was either dramatic or cute. I absolutely agree that she is a sophisticated skater but to me, sophistication is an essential part of even being able to portray a role like Anna Karenina. She's also very elegant and light. Her new programs are a different style and it's true that Evgenia is no Ashley Wagner and will probably never be either. This doesn't mean she doesn't have a right to try this new style, to try and fit into this new role. Why not? It gives her an opportunity to learn, to experience a new way of portraying herself. The timing might be a bit off, I agree on that. But I do not think she always has to do the sophisticated, elegant style. She is young, she is fresh. Let her try something more sassy and sexy. Currently she's not feeling it too much. But who says she won't ever? There were already improvements between ACI and SCI. It will be interesting to see how much she can improve and I'm all in for seeing a young athlete leaving her comfort zone and pushing to learn new things, even if she might not look as perfect as she used to do before.
If with "packaging" was meant her costumes, I'm inclined to agree with that. I like her FS dress, it looks good on her and from what I've heard, the way it looks on TV and videos doesn't do it justice. Apparently it looks even better live. Her SP dress however... let's say I don't find it either too fitting or too flattering. The shape looks a bit odd and I also can't see how it matches the theme really well. I'm a shameless fan of Olga's dresses fan so I won't deny that I would have preferred Zhenya to stay with her. But again - she wants everything to be completely new. It's okay. Next year they will probably have more time for costumes, too. I can imagine that they weren't as high on their priority list this season which was already cut short so much.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2011
i don't think it would have been possible for her to use Olga even if she wanted to since she's across the world now. It would have been a lot of postage and a lot of time to send a dress back and forth to make sure it fit right and make any alterations/changes.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
Doesn‘t Yuzuru do or at least used to do that, too with his costumes? I thought I read somewhere he has them brought over from Japan. Of course this season this wouldn‘t have been possible because it‘s already been stressful enough and it was probably just more convenient to use a dressmaker that was within easy reach. But maybe in the future some time again? I don‘t know too much about costumes so if anyone does, please tell.
Doesn‘t Yuzuru do or at least used to do that, too with his costumes? I thought I read somewhere he has them brought over from Japan. Of course this season this wouldn‘t have been possible because it‘s already been stressful enough and it was probably just more convenient to use a dressmaker that was within easy reach. But maybe in the future some time again? I don‘t know too much about costumes so if anyone does, please tell.
Olga seams quite a lot for foreign skaters, and sends dresses by mail.
Also, Olga worked with Zhenya for a long time, and she even made a dress for zhenya without any fittings at all (one of the AK dresses).
Last but not least, Zhenya is a star, and surely Olga would have accomodated her schedule.
And honestly... Zhenya's current dresses look a lot like bad versions of what Olga used to sew for her. The new SP dress is quite a bit of Olga style, and the FS dress looks very similar to the AK dresses from last year. So I don't think Zhenya dislikes Olga's style
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2015
I said what I wanted to say. Because, yes, it's ridiculous. (This is the most polite word for it).
and yes. I am saddened to see what has become with this thread when you know how it used to be.
that's it.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
I don‘t think Zhenya dislikes Olga‘s style at all. If I had to make a guess it would probably be that her schedule was already pretty tight so dresses weren‘t their first priority. So they just used somebody who was in Canada so they didn‘t have to bother with the extra troubles oversea shipping might have meant. I like her current FS dress but honestly... Olga just is something special. Each of her dresses fits a program and skater perfectly. I personally hope Zhenya will collaborate with her again some time in the future.
Well, I‘m really sorry but... if you dislike the state this thread is in so much and don‘t want to even try and make it better by contributing to discussions, I can‘t help you. Personally, I find this thread to be pretty interesting. There will always be opinions and statements I will go: “
“ upon reading and there’s two options on how to deal with them: either respond to them or ignore them and participate in the rest of the discussions. You can also bring up a new topic. But just stating that this thread has become sad and ridiculous doesn‘t help much, imo. It won‘t change the situation at all, unfortunately. It‘s your opinion of course and you are perfectly allowed to state it. I just personally think it would make more sense to try and make a change instead of complaining. 
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
https://youtube.com/watch?v=6u14pLHV3Vw
I think Sasha’s interpretation is spot on of the moment Leeloo escapes. Especially the facial expression.
Also re:the Danil Interview in March
I think this tells the story from March until now. Sasha since then has really improved on everything. I was actually surprised how obvious these improvement were and at the forefront of her programs. I haven’t seen the same level of growth from last season to this season in Alena. If you have I’d be interested to hear where. Not sure how much she needs but keep in mind I’m comparing her Romeo and Juliet to THIS
I think while Sasha lacks a certain fluidity that connects her programs (right now it’s her athletic prowess doing it) I find Alena has some issues with connecting emotionally to her programs. Last season’s programs didn’t call for it...she could breeze thru without any major effort put into developing character. It was all very smooth and complimentary of the music. I think Romeo and Juliet is very a emotional music and calls for a performance like Gubanova gave which requires certain character. YMMV. Alena’s program isn’t bad (I think it’s growing on me) but I think while Sasha took a step forward with her Components maybe Alena has remained on a similar level as last year with programs I find less complimentary of her strengths. Judges disagree about this stuff all the time and it makes sense we as fans do too. I just think there is this recurring theme in this thread where people come in and state as fact that Sasha should just automatically score lower than Alena or else the scores are “incorrect”. I strongly disagree and think it is maybe a reflection of personal preference.
For me both girls can expect marks somewhere between 8 and 9 based on the judges perceptions and that is fine. I’d expect Anna to fit in just below those two but again...very similar.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2017
Yes he still does that. He already made changes to his sp costume since ACI even though he is in Canada and the costume maker is in Japan.Doesn‘t Yuzuru do or at least used to do that, too with his costumes? I thought I read somewhere he has them brought over from Japan. Of course this season this wouldn‘t have been possible because it‘s already been stressful enough and it was probably just more convenient to use a dressmaker that was within easy reach. But maybe in the future some time again? I don‘t know too much about costumes so if anyone does, please tell.
speaking of costumes... Interview with the costume maker from St Petersburg - she works with Konstantinova and worked with Stolbova/Klimov
https://zen.yandex.ru/media/tataais...ast-1--5bdd5a50e4c44c00aa02283d?&from=channel
https://zen.yandex.ru/media/tataais...ast-2--5be033db48efa800a9d32f61?&from=channel
in russian, sorry too lazy right now
https://zen.yandex.ru/media/tataais...ast-1--5bdd5a50e4c44c00aa02283d?&from=channel
https://zen.yandex.ru/media/tataais...ast-2--5be033db48efa800a9d32f61?&from=channel
in russian, sorry too lazy right now
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2018
I would be happy if Zhenya got costume from Olga when she goes for Russian Nationals. Olga knows her body so maybe there is a chance she can make something and then do last minute alterations when she is there.
- Joined
- May 11, 2018
This thread is always entertaining.
Anyways, I agree I don’t think Zhenya dislikes Olga’s style, I feel like whoever did her dresses tried to replicate it. My guess is since it seems Evgenia’s body is changing right now, it might be easier to have someone make her dresses close to her. That way if any adjustments need to be made the dress doesn’t need to be mailed back to Russia.
Hopefully next season she will return to Olga because her costumes are so incredible.
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2018
Do you think at Sambo they practice American Jazz? There are many types of jazz but the style of Nat King Cole is American Jazz who released Orange Coloured Sky around 1950. His daughter then re-relased the song in the 90s. I also have not seen videos of them working Tango off ice at Sambo.
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2018
This is my last thought.
This season the programs that seem most natural to her are her Exhibition, then Tango free skate and last the Jazz short program.
The packaging is wrong with the Jazz. She is dressed too much like flapper and needs more of a 1950s style with a halter neck and red lips. That's what I see. I am hoping when Sandra Bezic does her finishing touches she gives some feedback about this. When she first started introduced this program to her, Sandra showed her pictures of pinup girls figure skating. If you want you can look this up in google images. Think Rockette.
The tango dress is nice but it's not my favorite. When I saw her practice at Skate Canada of her free skate, especially the step sequence to Libertango I thought Okay, she can sell this. She can sell it even more and she will.
Next season, I would like to see a return to an Averbukh program or Shae Lynn with the new skills she is learning from Brian and co.
This season the programs that seem most natural to her are her Exhibition, then Tango free skate and last the Jazz short program.
The packaging is wrong with the Jazz. She is dressed too much like flapper and needs more of a 1950s style with a halter neck and red lips. That's what I see. I am hoping when Sandra Bezic does her finishing touches she gives some feedback about this. When she first started introduced this program to her, Sandra showed her pictures of pinup girls figure skating. If you want you can look this up in google images. Think Rockette.
The tango dress is nice but it's not my favorite. When I saw her practice at Skate Canada of her free skate, especially the step sequence to Libertango I thought Okay, she can sell this. She can sell it even more and she will.
Next season, I would like to see a return to an Averbukh program or Shae Lynn with the new skills she is learning from Brian and co.
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2014
I hesitate to post, since I wouldn't be able to identify most Russian ladies' skaters out of a line up with a gun to my head, but....
Nat King Cole and Orange Colored Sky (and his daughter Natalie, who used his arrangement) are being filtered through a lens that I don't understand. Orange Colored Sky is *not* "sexy". It is a fun, almost novelty, tune. Nat King Cole never sang it for sexiness or romance, but for fun and perhaps, at most, sassiness.
The tune was written in 1930, although Nat popularized it in 1950. Again, not sexy, not sultry, but fun and flirty. To my mind there's a big difference.
Now I suppose there can be argument over whether Zhenya can do the fun and flirty (think Mariah Bell and Roxy) but this is not some Ice Dance "fake romance" number.
That is all
Nat King Cole and Orange Colored Sky (and his daughter Natalie, who used his arrangement) are being filtered through a lens that I don't understand.
Orange Colored Sky is *not* "sexy". It is a fun, almost novelty, tune. Nat King Cole never sang it for sexiness or romance, but for fun and perhaps, at most, sassiness. The tune was written in 1930, although Nat popularized it in 1950. Again, not sexy, not sultry, but fun and flirty. To my mind there's a big difference.
Now I suppose there can be argument over whether Zhenya can do the fun and flirty (think Mariah Bell and Roxy) but this is not some Ice Dance "fake romance" number.
That is all
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