2018-19 U.S. Ladies' figure skating

[moonvine]

This is an excellent question. I was just wondering the same thing. She has kept everything under the radar but, I'd love to see her go for it. She'll have a very friendly crowd and even if she doesn't make the podium, I'd love to see her skate.

I will be VERY sad if she doesn't skate. I'm going to Nationals primarily to see her. She was definitely planning to skate the day after she withdrew from her GP assignment (or at least she said so, via Twitter).

 

[moonvine]

Well, they're going to need SOME rivalry. Like, Bradie vs. Mariah isn't exactly must-watch drama. The return of Gold is - I hope they'll be kind to her (but fully expect them not to be).

I was rather surprised to hear how kind they were to her in commentating her GP short. I didn't expect it.

 

[Imagine]

Ashley Wagner is perhaps the most unremarkable skating “star” the US has ever had. Says more about the sorry state of US ladies skating than anything else. Whatever she got she earned though, you must give her that much. Nothing more, nothing less (except that one silver she stole from someone named Anna). Lack of natural talent never stopped her from gritting out some commendable performances, but the way she talks up her own game like she’s this ahhh-mazing soulful artiste is just irritating to no end. Full of it. Glad that US Ladies are finally going in the right direction now.

 

[crazydreamer]

Ashley Wagner is perhaps the most unremarkable skating “star” the US has ever had.

And yet here you are remarking on her...

Ashley had a lot of personality both on and off the ice, and is greatly missed. Most skaters today are so boring, both in their performances and off the ice.

 

[withwings]

You are seriously ether distorting facts to suit your dislike of Ashley, or misremembering things. Gracie was the one that had the “publicity hoopla” and “promise of greatness” as she came into Sochi as national champ, she was on the cover of sports illustrated that February, was in the untied airlines Olympic athletes commercials and had a cover girl contact. Ashley had a firestorm of bad press from a combination of being put on the team instead of Mirai and being one of the few Americans athletes to speak out on Russia’s anti gay laws. She WAS a serious contender, if you had been paying attention to that quads results and did not bomb-did she fail to live up to expectations sure we can make an argument for that but she she was far from the utter train wreck you are implying. And as for your insistence that she was “abysmal” at nationals-I provided you with receipts above that she actually did better jump wise(where the majority of technical points come from) in the free the Karen but you’ve conveniently ignored that.

:thumbsup:

 

[macy]

Ashley disappointed in Sochi, because of all the publicity hoop-la and promises of greatness that did NOT materialize there. Her PR presented her as a serious contender, but she bombed - and then proceeded to blame the judges, implying that she deserved a much higher placement (she did not).

At least no one expected Bradie, Mirai, and Karen to medal in Pyeongchang, and they did not blame the judges for their placements.

She was abysmal at nationals, but once again, her PR machine had the gall to suggest that judges are to blame (instead of her own unfortunate performance), and that others should be pushed aside anyway, again.

She disappointed (bombed) compared to her PR. Over-promised, but under-delivered.

once again as others have pointed out, i think your personal opinions of Ashley's performances are getting in the way...

you do realize that this publicity hype is something that happens with many skaters in the lead up to the actual event? it's to boost viewings, not because they necessarily ARE a contender. do you not remember this same thing with Gracie, or are you choosing not to? How did that turn out for her?

The bias at 2018 nationals towards Karen was obvious with her PCS boost, which the fed knew was the only way to get her on the team and give her a higher placement than Ashley after the way she skated. If the scores had been fair, it would have been Ashley in 3rd, no question. Ashley knew this but NEVER ONCE bashed Karen or any other skater despite speaking out on her scores. These are facts and not anyone's opinion, so if Ashley was "abysmal" with her WRONG SCORE AND PLACEMENT, i guess that makes Karen just terrible.

 

[macy]

(except that one silver she stole from someone named Anna)

i really don't understand why people say things like this. Ashley didn't score herself, nor did she give herself her silver medal.

 

[Casual]

once again as others have pointed out, i think your personal opinions of Ashley's performances are getting in the way...

you do realize that this publicity hype is something that happens with many skaters in the lead up to the actual event? it's to boost viewings, not because they necessarily ARE a contender. do you not remember this same thing with Gracie, or are you choosing not to? How did that turn out for her?

The bias at 2018 nationals towards Karen was obvious with her PCS boost, which the fed knew was the only way to get her on the team and give her a higher placement than Ashley after the way she skated. If the scores had been fair, it would have been Ashley in 3rd, no question. Ashley knew this but NEVER ONCE bashed Karen or any other skater despite speaking out on her scores. These are facts and not anyone's opinion, so if Ashley was "abysmal" with her WRONG SCORE AND PLACEMENT, i guess that makes Karen just terrible.

Publicity hoopla with subsequent disappointment was especially jarring with Ashley, because unlike her, Gracie didn't get someone else's spot on the Olympic team.

Ashley did (not "stole" but was "gifted over someone else"). At least there was no question in anyone's mind, why Gracie was in Sochi instead of someone else, or whether it was deservedly on her own talent instead of politicking.

Someone above wrote about Ashley's lack of natural talent vs. the pretense of being an awesome soulful artiste. Perhaps this is what turned me off her skating - I truly found the other ladies more talented and pleasurable to watch.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

On a more positive note......

Who will win junior nationals in the ladies event? Now this is a tough question. There’s no breakout star and no consistent competitor who’ll take the title when everyone else makes mistakes.

 

[macy]

i think at this point we're all just beating a dead horse sooooo.....

 

[andromache]

On a more positive note......

Who will win junior nationals in the ladies event? Now this is a tough question. There’s no breakout star and no consistent competitor who’ll take the title when everyone else makes mistakes.

No idea. And at least for this year, probably doesn't matter. Our best junior ladies are competing as seniors at Nationals.

Last year, junior nationals was relatively stacked (Ting, Alysa, and Hanna were all known - Pooja was kind of a pleasant surprise).

Gabriella Izzo seems most likely to win this year? Which is less exciting than last year, since she's older than a lot of the current favorite juniors with less impressive technical content.

 

[frida80]

On a more positive note......

Who will win junior nationals in the ladies event? Now this is a tough question. There’s no breakout star and no consistent competitor who’ll take the title when everyone else makes mistakes.

Thank you, let’s talk about something positive!


I’d say Gabriella Izzo is probably the winner. I watched her in person and was very impressed. She doesn’t have a triple triple, but her jumps are high, clean, and consistent. She was definately a breath of fresh air. She also has a good shot of being a JW alternate. Emilia Murdock and Audrey Shin will fight for silver.

Here’s Gabriella at sectionals.

https://youtu.be/HxRpX1qA5VQ

 

[Casual]

What's the age cutoff for juniors? How young do they start? How old do they transfer to seniors?

 

[yelyoh]

i really don't understand why people say things like this. Ashley didn't score herself, nor did she give herself her silver medal.

Ah but in an alternate universe Anna actually won the silver but Ashely stole it from Anna's bag. Nobody noticed so it remained Ashley's and by stealing the medal she rewrote history in that alternate universe.

 

[gkelly]

What's the age cutoff for juniors? How young do they start? How old do they transfer to seniors?

Within the US, there are no age limits, bottom or top, for juniors. Domestic competition levels are solely determined by which tests the skater has passed.

Internationally, the ISU junior age limits are at least 13 and not yet 19 as of the previous July 1.

There will be skaters within that age range at all levels of US Nationals from Intermediate to Senior.

 

[Casual]

i really don't understand why people say things like this. Ashley didn't score herself, nor did she give herself her silver medal.

I guess in controversial situations the question is always, WHY is someone scored higher than their performance - is it just a freebie from the judges, is it a pull of a more connected coach, etc.?

Whenever there's a perceived inequity in sports, there's a lingering hostility. Even if the athlete herself had nothing to do with it.

 

[macy]

Ah but in an alternate universe Anna actually won the silver but Ashely stole it from Anna's bag. Nobody noticed so it remained Ashley's and by stealing the medal she rewrote history in that alternate universe.

yes, this had to be exactly what happened

 

[Chris_E]

I guess in controversial situations the question is always, WHY is someone scored higher than their performance - is it just a freebie from the judges, is it a pull of a more connected coach, etc.?

Whenever there's a perceived inequity in sports, there's a lingering hostility. Even if the athlete herself had nothing to do with it.

I was there that evening and while Anna skated very strongly, Ashley skated last and had the pro-American crowd in the palm of her hands from her first pose. She willed that skate to happen and I believe the audience was part of pushed her to skate well. The instant standing ovation when she finished and incredibly loud audience cheers can only certainly sway the judges to score her a little higher than normal. I'm sure if the competition was in Russia, Anna would have benefited from that a snatched the silver instead. Ashley deserved that silver over the 2 performances she put out at that competition and as a fan, I'm certainly very happy she put it together when it really counted. What a bummer of an event would it have been if she closed out with a poor performance when the rest of the final two groups had skated very well, aside from Gracie who really wasn't as terrible as some think.

 

[RobinA]

What you're saying is the judges should judge based on "reputation scoring", instead of an actual performance.

I strongly disagree. I think the reputational scoring (and resulting enormous bias, and perception of crooked judging!) is the main reason why the fans have been leaving this sport in droves.

Scores based on reputation, scores to promote Fed's favorites - herein lies THE ROT at the heart of ISU and national federations.

As a casual observer, I don't give a flying fig about the Fed's preferences, or the judges darlings, or a skater defying expectations due to a particularly good or a bad day and thus inconveniencing a preferred narrative... However, I do care deeply about fairness.

When I see that judging, for some inexplicable reason, is not in fact based on the day of the performance, AND ONLY on the day of performance, but rather on "reputation" - which often means some super-inflated (or super-depressed) prior "established" scores - I don't get it. What is it - public sport, or a private corrupt club?

Virtually no sport is immune from reputational advantages. Team sport fans would love to tell you how 6 time such and such Stanley Cup Champions don't get penalties called as often because they are big. Stars, as in basketball, football, etc, seem to get away with more than Player Nobody. Look at the cheating that the Patriots may or may not get away with based on their winning ways. That's why I'm always surprised when people blame figure skating's falling revenues on perceived judging controversies. Sports fans don't tune out for that reason. Figure skaters have been alleged to have been "held up" since I began watching in 1968. And for older fans, don't forget the old "Soviet bloc." I might argue that having stars in a sport are good for bringing out the ticket buyers, and stars sometimes need a little support. I'm not arguing that, but I think an argument could be made.

 

[skylark]

Thank you, let’s talk about something positive!

I think that in the last few pages, many posters did speak positively about Ashley, Gracie and Mirai. It's true that the mean, abusive language some continue to use when they talk about Ashley, in particular, can really cast a dark shadow over the entire thread.

But I don't think that's a good reason not to speak up, and to correct such critics when they are unfairly bashing Ashley. I had to teach myself to pay more attention to the many champions who speak up for Ashley and expose all those alternative universe conspiracy theories for what they are. And to the many "thumbs up" those positive remarks get.

thanks for the link of Gabriella. She's new to me, so here I go to watch her.