Endorsements by Male Skaters

[debdelilah]

Nothing wrong with having a sport for little girls. If you want grown up figure skating, go to another country.

Elite skaters all started out as little girls and little boys. They all compete on the elite level beginning at around age 16(young adulthood) and lasting up until early thirties. This isn't different in the US than in other countries. As for marketing--toy basketball hoops and toy soldiers are marketed to boys in kindergarten, but does that mean the military and professional basketball are for little boys?
When you're saying little girls, do you actually mean "women"? Because that's who are competing(even Kimmie and Mao aren't little girls) and that's the majority of the audience watching.

 

[Tinymavy15]

women's figure skating usally gets more viewers thean the pairs of the dance or men's/ there are more women and girls who skate, so they like watching thier peers the best. the champion ladies are in higher demand.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Elite skaters all started out as little girls and little boys. They all compete on the elite level beginning at around age 16(young adulthood) and lasting up until early thirties. This isn't different in the US than in other countries. As for marketing--toy basketball hoops and toy soldiers are marketed to boys in kindergarten, but does that mean the military and professional basketball are for little boys?
When you're saying little girls, do you actually mean "women"? Because that's who are competing(even Kimmie and Mao aren't little girls) and that's the majority of the audience watching.

I'm talking about how the media began treating figure skating from the beginning with the paper dolls, coloring books and those beloved teenyboppers who tell us about their whole lives in an autobiography at 14. It was all played out to be for little girls. That is how little Oksana, Tara, Michelle and Sasha started. Nobody thought it was necessary to talk about a boy.

That is my explanation on why it is a little girls sport.

Joe

 

[Tonichelle]

Elvis is quoted as saying "You had to skate flamboyant or skate very feminine in order to be recognized as a good artistic skater. I wanted to show that that's crap, that you can be yourself and... have a masculinity about your skating and not have to skate to classical music. You can have power in your movement and aggressiveness."

so THAT'S why he didn't win the big one

I don't know where he get the idea that he was forced to skate a certain way. I didn't see anything flambouyant or artistic about his skating. so I guess he failed his own gay department...

let's see...
Kurt Browning was his main rival at home... and he's straight
Alexi Urmanov won in Lillehammer, he's a father and last I knew was married so he's straight
Ilia Kulik won the olympics in 98... and he's straight...

and all three are considered extremely artistic... so I'm not seeing the connection...

 

[gio]

and all three are considered extremely artistic... so I'm not seeing the connection...

Simply because there is NO connection!!!
But I think this is a stupid problem that some boy skaters have. Skating to classical music and being artistic doesn't mean you are gay.

 

[gio]

IMO the fact that there are different styles is a very interesting and exciting thing of Figure Skating. Weir vs Joubert, Ito vs Yamaguchi, ...

 

[debdelilah]

I'm talking about how the media began treating figure skating from the beginning with the paper dolls, coloring books and those beloved teenyboppers who tell us about their whole lives in an autobiography at 14. It was all played out to be for little girls. That is how little Oksana, Tara, Michelle and Sasha started. Nobody thought it was necessary to talk about a boy.

That is my explanation on why it is a little girls sport.

Joe

You're saying "nobody thought it was necessary to talk about a boy". All right, but in traditionally male sports, nobody thinks it very necessary to talk about, broadcast, or give equal pay to women--the reason being that the main appeal for those sports is towards men. Since there's already such a bias towards men in the sports world, and figure skating is pretty much the only women's sport on TV(with gymnastics and sychro swimming rarely on) it seems to me what's going on is that people think there's a double standard--no problem with masculine sports not being changed to appeal to women, but a problem with the one still popular feminine sport being feminine, and thus distinct from other sports. And you know a lot of guys consider being compared to a woman an insult. It's misogyny. In a direct comparision to other sports, yes, they are also marketed to kids--to boys, usually. You know, the traditional bedroom decor for a boy has pictures of sports paraphenalia on it. And toys. And other sports start in elementary school, like figure skating. What's the difference? Kids look up to adults, whether male or female. But do you really think that it's six year old girls switching on the tv to watch figure skating? Most little kids wouldn't have that attention span--it's only a minority that would take skating that seriously. So I would say figure skating is primarily a women's sport.

 

[Tigger]

so THAT'S why he didn't win the big one

I don't know where he get the idea that he was forced to skate a certain way. I didn't see anything flambouyant or artistic about his skating. so I guess he failed his own gay department...

Okay, first off....

Second...I have always said it was a true pity Elvis was either terrified of being called gay and/or too stubborn to even try to stretch himself artistically out there on the ice. Regardless of the reason, and I believe it was a little bit of both, I don't think he ever reached his true potential as a skater. Before I get nailed for that, let me try to clarify...

Do I think Elvis is one of the best jumpers this sport has seen so far? Yes. Did he push the boundaries of what someone in the Men's event can do out there on the jumping side of things? Beyond a shadow of a doubt. However, artistically and program wise, he stagnated after 97. Some would even say after 94, but I don't know about that.

I keep thinking about that incredable, long, gorgeous, fully stretched out back edge spiral I saw him do in his Candle In The Wind number in 97 and often wonder if he'd added a bit more of stuff like that in his programs...We'll never know and I truly feel sad about that. Not only do I think Elvis never truly reached his potential, but we missed out on what could have been too.

And now....Back to the original topic of the thread....

Kurt and Elvis weren't the only male skaters up here to have endorsements/sponsors. Anyone else remember Brian Orser's Campbell's Soups commercials that ran from Skate Canada 1987 thru to the next year IIRC? Where Brian was shown doing that gorgeous delayed single axel of his and a voiceover saying something about helping man to fly. Then how a certain amount from every Campbell's can of soup sold would go to the Athlete's Trust Fund.

Kurt was also sponsored in the early days by Northern Telecom before it went belly up. After they went Pro, Wilson and McCall did a bunch of ads for McCain's juice boxes. Only time in Canada I remember an Ice Dance team getting to do endorsements on TV. I don't remember Bourne and Kraatz doing any, but could also be wrong on that one.

 

[enlight78]

Elvis is quoted as saying "You had to skate flamboyant or skate very feminine in order to be recognized as a good artistic skater. I wanted to show that that's crap, that you can be yourself and... have a masculinity about your skating and not have to skate to classical music. You can have power in your movement and aggressiveness."

"

I am confuse. Does this mean Emily is a masculine skater? Or is she a feminine skater since she uses classical music?

 

[Mathman]

I have to say, I agree with Debdelila's observations. I would even go a little further.

First, the reason that figure skating is regarded as a women's sport is because of the second mark. It's not just what you do, it's how pretty you look doing it. This is the reason that, for instance, diving and body building are regarded as "gay sports."

Secondly, the reason that figure skating is thought of as a little girls' sport is that all sports and games are for children. We pay professional athletes to prolong their childhood into adulthood for our entertainment (after all, being a kid is way more fun than being a grown-up).

We give a professional basketball player $10,000,000 to throw a rubber ball through a hoop twenty times a night. Then we wonder why he acts like a spoiled child.

My favorite athlete just completed a successful goodwill mission to China for the U.S. State Department. She was world champion at 16, did her thing into young adulthood, and now has moved on with her life.

Go Mirai Nagasu!

 

[gio]

So I would say figure skating is primarily a women's sport.

This is what Americans think. You are talking as the United States is the only country in the World. In the United States you have this prejudice, but I don't think this is happening in other parts of the World as well. I don't think that the French, the Russians, the Chinese and the Japanese have the same point of view.
I'm sick of all these "you can't do it because it is a woman sport or male sport".

 

[gio]

First, the reason that figure skating is regarded as a women's sport is because of the second mark. It's not just what you do, it's how pretty you look doing it. This is the reason that, for instance, diving and body building are regarded as "gay sports."

Again you start from an American point of view. Art is regareded as femenine. But who decided that? I think this is just in the United States. If you look at South Americans, moving the butt when dancing is considered macho. In the United States it is considered femenine. So, do we have to accept the first or the second point of view as true? IMO, nor the first nor the second. Why do you have to divide the concepts so strictly? I'm for the relativity of concepts. This is the only way to accept other points of view. Because if not you are always stuck on yours.

 

[Mathman]

That's quite true. I was talking about how figure skating is perceived in the United States. As Joe put, if you want adult (or men's) figure skating, you have to go to another country.

 

[gio]

As Joe put, if you want adult (or men's) figure skating, you have to go to another country.

That is sad, because you have (and had) such talented skaters as Evan and Johnny. They deserve more attention and publicity.

 

[Mathman]

Yes, very sad. I think that is the point of this thread. That male figure skaters in the U.S. do not get the attention and publicity (and the lucrative endorsement contracts that go with them) that the lady stars do.

I think the most prominent exception was Scott Hamilton. By the force of his personality and his entrepreneurial savvy he forced his way onto the public stage and commanded a lot of favorable attention.

 

[Linny]

Usa

The USA woman have dominated that portion of figure skating for years. The tide has turned, dramatically, with Japan taking over that slot now.

But, my point is, that if we look at USA media, of course the woman figure skater are going to stand out and, of course the sport will be marketed as a woman's sport - it's the country of origin for the woman stars.

If the USA had had the world champion pairs skaters or dance skaters, it would have been different. Note that, now that we have a top level dance team, that portion of figure skating is getting more air time. And, they've gotten a pretty high exposure endorsement.

Apparently, marketers figure that Americans love to but products endorsed by people who represent America (that fact not withstanding that Tanith was Canadian until pretty recent).

Lin

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

So I would say figure skating is primarily a women's sport.

You are agreeing with me but you seem to also be involved in a women's movement. I could agree with you on that but that's another topic for Le Cafe.

For your information Primarily it was a man's sport and quite exclusive to them. Check out the history of figure skating.

BTW - This 'a woman's or a little girl's sport' thing is ONLY IN AMERICA.

Joe

 

[Geesesk8]

Even then, there was a lot of debate because she wasn't getting as many as did other American ladies OGMs -- a lot of people thought she didn't get them because she wasn't Caucasian. I do recall reading that Michelle Kwan really broke down the door for endorsement deals for American ladies without the OGM -- a lot of people were surprised because she wasn't even the highest placing American. I don't recall Linda Fratienne (sp?) or Roz Summers getting endorsement deals -- does anyone know if they did -- outside of any tour-related deals?

Roz Sumners had her photo on a Corn Flakes box (scroll down-last picture):
http://www.geocities.com/Dothroz/Roz80s.html

 

[debdelilah]

You are agreeing with me but you seem to also be involved in a women's movement. I could agree with you on that but that's another topic for Le Cafe.

For your information Primarily it was a man's sport and quite exclusive to them. Check out the history of figure skating.

BTW - This 'a woman's or a little girl's sport' thing is ONLY IN AMERICA.

Joe

I do know it started out as a man's sport--I'm not talking about what it was, but what I believe I would like it to be. It's a question of what things are stressed, and who it appeals to. Is it supposed to reenforce stereotypes? In other countries where it's a man's sport, does it reenforce stereotypes and force women into a subordinate role--less jumps, less power, a question of how well she can present herself to men? Where it is a women's sport, with a mostly female audience, there's a different dynamic, and men actually aspire to achieve things that women are generally better at(grace, creativity) rather than the other way around.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I do know it started out as a man's sport--I'm not talking about what it was, but what I believe I would like it to be. It's a question of what things are stressed, and who it appeals to. Is it supposed to reenforce stereotypes? In other countries where it's a man's sport, does it reenforce stereotypes and force women into a subordinate role--less jumps, less power, a question of how well she can present herself to men? Where it is a women's sport, with a mostly female audience, there's a different dynamic, and men actually aspire to achieve things that women are generally better at(grace, creativity) rather than the other way around.

It's your taste but it would be nice to see an imo in the story. Otherwise it seems if you are pushing your opinion as a rule of law.

Again you seem to be pushing women any which way. Why not? and no problem from me. IN AMERICA, which you somehow seem to want to avoid, parents bring their kids up with blue and pink from day one!

Some women are very conscious of the 'no' different between sexes. OK, more power to them. If they have knocked out the boys in figure skating that is a victory for them. If men are trying to be more graceful, think of all those lyrical musical and painting composition that men have done. Where are these graceful women in the arts? As for figure skating are you waiting for the day that a woman does a quad/three combo? To me, that's a waste. Now on to Football, and the women against the men.

Joe