2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating | Page 715 | Golden Skate

2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

Ah, that explains it. Thank you. I just watched the FS of that competition and it seems Alena withdrew after the SP. But Anna Shcherbakova won that event. And I have to say: She looks SO different now, much, much stronger. That was probably shortly after her injury so seeing it again, it‘s simply mind-blowing how she went from barely being able to walk to then having shaky triples to becoming Senior Russian champion in a year with a clean quad lutz!
 
Is that a competition and if so, why is she in her training clothes and looks like she barely slept that night? Also, wasn‘t the solo jump 3Lz last year? I‘m a bit confused. I don‘t know if it‘s her being tired when that video was taken but her jumps look a lot higher and bigger now.
Her jumps have become much bigger and higher this season. It's a work that need to be done for ability to be able to jump ultra-с elements. And they're working on it by preparing her and her body.
Compare to the last season. Every single jump is bigger now at least on 5-8cm
Some of them even more 7-10cm.
 
What exactly does Eteri do? From my understanding, Dudakov is responsible for the jumps and Daniil is responsible for the choreography. Is Eteri there to motivate the girls?

From Daniil's interview:
The "coach" part is what interests me the most. How is your group divided between the coaches? Do you have any particular tasks and responsibilities? Do you work with your skaters off ice?
Of course, we have off ice work too. We have warm ups, choreography classes, jazz classes. We have two groups - younger skaters and senior skaters, - each group has two on-ice sessions, an hour and a half long each, so overall it's six hours.
When on the ice everyone works with everyone, we don't have individual lessons and all coaches - Eteri, Sergei Viktorovich (Dudakov), and I - we all are responsible for all aspects. Whether it is skating skills and I start working with them, both Eteri and Sergei Viktorovich make comments and remarks, or we work on jumps and also, all three of us will correct mistakes. This way everyone gets enough attention. Of course, if there is some exhibition program we need to work on, I can take this skater for the next session and work with him individually, to choreograph the number or to perfect certain details like step sequences. But in general all the work is divided equally among all three of us.
We also have experts who work with them off ice. My mother, Shalashova Lyudmila Borisovna, works on choreography, Alexei Zheleznyakov teaches jazz. Sergei Viktorovich always comes to all the warm ups. Eteri and I join in sometimes too. So everybody is everywhere watching everything.
http://absoluteskating.com/index.php?cat=interviews&id=2018gleichengauz
(February 11, 2018)
 
Not quite I think. Sasha’s basic SS is typical or Eteri Girls v3.0 - better than Yulia, Zhenya, Alina certainly. Sasha has better power and can generate and change speed better than Alyona but the latter has better glide and edge. They both have strengths in different aspects of SS. Alyona looks better to me primarily because of her great posture that conveys the semblance of balance while Sasha can look rather frenetic. It’s that superior posture that gives Alyona that floaty like quality. I think Alyona is the more natural skater that needs to learn she can use her lovely edge control to accelerate more while Sasha needs to develop better body awareness to better showcase her power. Overall, Scherbakova is the one who charms audience the most as she has the most natural dance and musical feel with decent basics and it certainly helps that she is so so lovely.

Agree with every. single. word.

Thank you! :thumbsup:
 
I really think it’s time to give Gubanova a chance though. She’s really hung in there and deserves an opportunity as much as anyone and Leonova has been given plenty of chances so if it comes down to it I reserve the right to be annoyed if she gets passed over for others who have been given plenty of opportunity.

I always enjoy Alena though so it’s not personal. It’s more like business IMO :cool:

I feel the same. I just add one thing here, Gubanova desrves a better programs. IMHO. Send Misha Ge or Daniil Gleykhengauz to her. Or somebody else, with similarly "fresh" choreo taste.
 
We all have to see multiple sides and perspectives. During the 6.0 days, energetic and powerful skaters like Midori Ito and Irina Slutskaya were often held down by their presentation scores as they did not conform to the "loveliness" quality that was preferred then. Irina even went into a balletic style for a while which was not in line with her energetic "big" personality. It was the contrast in styles and different personalities which Midori vs Kristi Yamaguchi and Irina vs Michelle Kwan which brought so much excitement. Sasha reminds me a little of that - she is powerful and energetic and she could better showcase her strengths in a more energetic programme. I may prefer Alyona's floaty qualities and Shcherbakova's musical congruence but Sasha's speed and power is also something to be admired. I believe the judges recognise the other two girls deservedly stronger PCS and gave them higher scores. I only wish that they will reflect the differences more clearly, that Sasha gets mid high SS and higher TR but lower PE and IN and CO as her performance aspects were indeed weaker than her teammates. Likewise, I do wish judges will score Liza Tuks higher in the PE/IN components and lower in SS and TR since it was pretty obvious where her weaker components were. Overall, I think that every skater brings different excitement to the ice and that is what makes us fans tick.


Very good points. Thank you as well!

I am all in for diversity. Not everyone is born to be a balletish, not everyone needs to skate to stereotypical Disney-princessy choreography and treacly lyrical "lovey-dovey" style. It is too mawkish and cloying for me already. And boring af. Personally, I'm tired of standardization and conservatism of the old figure skating taste, I prefer modern style now and current tendencies in FS choreography. That's why Misha Ge and Daniil G choreography is such a breath of fresh air to me. They bring more fans to the FS sport too. And ISU could not help, but notice current world tendencies. Especially the globalization of many other big sports. Rule of thumb here is simple: the less "elitist" and the more democratic - the better, the more chances to attract new fans and attention. The more us - peasants - the better! :biggrin:

I enjoy Kostornaya a lot too! I love her flowy sliding and grace to piece. And I adore a itty-bitty delicate musicality of Shcherbakova too. But let's give girls like Trusova a chance too!

Trusova improved since the last year a lot. A LOT. Besides technical content is there and getting only better. If someone thinks her SS is bad, I'm sorry, you have no clue. She demonstrates a big variety of strides in her StepSeq. She changes edges often and quick, her edges are pretty deep, she changes the rhythm several times, she uses a lot of different kind of strides, she uses long strides, short strides, medium strides, different radius, she alternates transitions and changing tempo, she accelerates rapidly and suddenly slows down changing directions while at it. Her SS is very decent. It just looks not so elegant and polished. Yet? Let's not forget she is not from Moscow, she was raised it provincial city. Give her 1-2 more years under Dudakov and Daniil. I'm sure they are aware where they need to work on with Trusova.

Yes, her SS and TR should be at mid-high score and that is appropriately deserved. I compare her current SS with previous season and I see a big big improvement. I see WORK. Like a lot of work. She and her coaches has done a big leap forwards in terms of SS and TR. And I agree, her PE, IN and CO is understandably low for a now. Those PE and IN flaws are obvious, but that can be worked on too. And CO - is a component, where choreographer needs to do a better job. Her programs this season are not too exciting, but they are interesting and I personally appreciate the "fresh" approach and a new flavor of choreography. They still need to find something much better for Sasha. It is hard for a now. Their dance teacher still needs to do a lot of work on her too.

Sasha always looks a bit too shy and shackled by being in the center of attention on ice or during interviews. Classic provincial Cinderella girl from the small town, I guess? I'm sure with age Sasha will push through her teenagery shyness. Besides that could be trained too. A bit more TV-exposure, so she can get used to cameras and television lighting (arenas on competitions usually equipped with special bright tv-lighting), a bit more dancing or skating in front of big crowds, a bit more socializing and interacting with different crowds and etc.
 
I would like to add to this ^^ a bit more..

Look, not every girl is born to look and to skate like princessy cliché (no offense to "real" princesses thou :P). If ISU will support diversity and inclusivity in our sport it would be better for FS in general and would help to ranking and viewership to go up worldwide. And would attract more sponsors. Every girl and boy on the ice rinks out where will be looking up to the skaters on Worlds, GP and Euros and will be picking the favorite by the personal taste AND by similarity to herself/himself or by something he/she can relate to. People are very different and diverse around the globe. We all are different, and we all want to see the same diversity among top skaters too. Some can be more balletic, some can be less refined, but amazing jumpers and has decent sliding skills. Pick your poison. :)
 
Trusova is not a Moscow girl. She is from Ryazan, a provincial Cinderella of sort (like a Zagitova). She started skating with the less know and less skilled FS coaches. And probably never took lessons with choreographers or dance teachers at her younger ages. This is noticeable, tbh. But we see her quickly getting better!

Kostornaya on another hand is a Moscow girl, she was exposed to the great skating coaches at the very young ages. Kostornaya and Shcherbakova are big "products" of Sambo-70 school.

Shcherbakova started with a kids coach at the same Khrustalny ice-rink and when she start showing potential she got into Eteri group. Nothing changed for her, just a different schedule and different kids and coaches on ice sessions.

As for Kostornaya, she is also Sambo-70, just skated on different ice-rink in Moscow before Eteri. Alyona's grace, balletic posture and elegance is a great example of what Elena Tchaikovskaia is famous for. Tchaikovskaia preaches a "balletic approach" to figure skating. Tchaikovskaiai has some serious academic degree, she is Balletmaster. They build a beautiful training facility in Moscow for Elena Tchaikovskaia. Alyona is not personal student of hers, but Tchaikovskaia is not a very hands-on coach lately, she is more of a strategist now I was told. She taught dozen of teachers and now they coach kids on Tchaikovskaia's ice rink under her supervision. Maria Butyrskaya was one of the latest personal student of Elena Tchaikovskaia. That's where Butyrskaya's elegance and lines come from. Although Alyona's grace is better, imho. Butyrskaya came to Elena Tchaikovskaia only later on, before that she was with Viktor Kudriavtsev, he is the one who gave her a big powerful high-amplitude jumps. Alyona Kostornaya reminds me Butyrskaya in many ways. But I repeat: Alyona is noticeably better in her lines. Probably because she was just exposed to Tchaikovskaia's skating techniques and her balletic approach a bit earlier than Maria.

I was told that Elena Tchaikovskaia is the one whom Eteri really listens to and values her opinion. Tchaikovskaia herself kinda send Alyona Kostornaya off to Eteri so she would be given a more personalized attention there on Khrustalny ice rink. Like I said already, Eteri and Tchaikovskaia is the same Sambo-70 school. If someone wants to accuse Eteri group of being a "factory of mass-production" you are barking at the wrong tree. Eteri just picks the 'la crème de la crème' (creme of the crop), the real mass production is other coaches of Sambo-70 who teach kids all the basics. Kostornaya and Shcherbakova skated at different Sambo-70 ice rinks and probably just showed some promising potentials to their coaches, so they offered to go pro and switch to Eteri, and Alyona and Anna (and their parents) decided to give a FS career a shot. So both girls came to Eteri with already very strong basics. Although sometimes Eteri picks girls from provinces too (see Lipnitkskaya, Zagitova and Trusova) and they enroll in Sambo-70 school, but so far Eteri never poached students of other Moscow elite coaches.

I found an interesting video. I guess, we need to thank Elena Tchaikovskaia's talent for Alyona's elegance. I mean just look at the building Sambo-70 build for her 10 years ago. Alyona Kostornaya grow up there as well. And watch the spins, Vaganova backs, posture and hands of those very young girls! And how many of them on the same ice simultaneously: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLivSWzR5Jk

This IS a factory. Tchaikovsaia is probably a big FS influence in Sambo-70 school. Eteri is just the tip of spear of their FS program. Eteri team giving a personal attention only to the most talented ones, but real mass-production is done in Sambo-70 by hordes of other coaches and Tchaikovskaia is supervising them. I google-translated the description under this video: "Elena Anatolievna Tchaikovskaya created not just a school, but a whole organism, where children are given not only sports education, but also develop artistic taste in athletes, teach art history and theater history. About 280 children and adolescents study on a regular basis at the school. In addition to the sport of higher achievements, the school also has a sports and fitness figure skating group for children, teenagers and adults." She talks in video a bit politically about feminism, family, about educating little girls properly, giving all of them a good basic FS education en masse and developing a good artistic taste. She wants to spread her school to all provincial regions too, she worries about health of the nation. She says even if kids won't become champions, they still would be aesthetically fulfilled, because FS is art, music, health and harmony. She says they need to educate and raise young ladies who understand the value of health, art and family. She says they raised already a decent amount of Worlds and Olympic champions. (Prolly referring to Butyrskaya, Medvedeva, Zagitova, Liptinskaya and some of her earlier students in the 80s and 70s). This youtube channel is titled "Union of women powers". Seems like there are a lot of relatively young (like Eteri age) coaches on her ice rink too.

Short promo of that ice-rink where Alyona Kostornaya grew up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vp_H4b3jbA
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always read that Alena was coached by Elena Zhgun at Sambo 70 before Eteri, never Tchaikovskaya, unless she had a hand in Kostornaya's former program.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always read that Alena was coached by Elena Zhgun at Sambo 70 before Eteri, never Tchaikovskaya, unless she had a hand in Kostornaya's former program.

Tchaikovskaya does not coach any one now, she is a bit too old for that I guess. But Tchaikovskaya created her own development FS program and she supervises coaches who work with kids in her school (which is a part of Sambo-70). Elena Zhgun is a Sambo-70 coach who worked with a group where Alyona was starting. This school has a title "Tchaikovskaya slate" and located in Yantar sport complex in Moscow. But essentially all this is a Sambo-70 property and Tchaikovskaya practicing her FS program there. Like I said, Elena Tchaikovskaya is not a hands-on coach any more, but rather a methodist and a strategist, a director of FS program of sort. Elena Zhgun is her coach.

Sambo-70 offered Tchaikovskaya to lead figure skating department of Sambo-70 at Yantar sport complex. Complex has other sport facilities under one roof. There are 2 ice rinks there. This Yantar sports centre looks like a very modern and nice training facility. Eteri was promised to have her own nice building soon. There were some news about it already. Hopefully it will be the same quality. Will see.


This is what I managed to find on Elena Zhgun (had to google-translate from Russian). She looks to be a very academic and scientific coach too:

Elena Vyacheslavovna Zhgun began her activity at the department in 1989, after 10 years of work as a figure skating coach. Elena Vyacheslavovna has a large amount of knowledge not only in the field of figure skating, but also in many other areas of sports activities. She was the first teacher at the Department of Theory and Methodology of Speed ​​Skating and Figure Skating, which began to use computer technology in the educational process. In 1994 she defended her thesis on the use of multimedia technologies in support of specialization - figure skating. She speaks English, which gives her the opportunity to participate in international conferences and seminars, conduct training sessions with athletes and give lectures in many countries around the world. In 1989-1991 She participated in three grand international seminars for athletes and coaches of the USA and Canada through the ICEP. In the mid-90s, she actively worked with athletes and coaches from Turkey, who came for an internship in Moscow. She devoted a lot of effort to working with the institute team in synchronized skating, translated from English a large amount of specialized literature on this type, developed her own method of teaching elements of synchronized skating, which was later successfully used by trainers in training teams in many cities of our country and abroad.

Since 2000, Elena Vladimirovna combines the work of a teacher with coaching activity at the school of sportsmanship “The Tchaikovsky Fad”. Her students are members of the Russian national team, winners of international, Russian and Moscow competitions. E.V. Zhgun is a member of the All-Russian Coaching Council, carrying out a large methodical work on the training of coaching staff.

Over the years, all teachers have done a great educational and methodical work. The teachers developed 11 programs for the educational process at other faculties and departments of the institute. The result of scientific and methodological work was the publication of about 200 methodological developments and lecture materials, 10 textbooks, 2 books, as well as sections in the "Explanatory dictionary of sports terms."

Scientific support.

Specialization is conducted active research work under the leadership of I.V. Absalyamova, which aims to perform R & D of the consolidated plan of research and development work of RGUFK.

All these methodological developments contribute to the improvement of the educational process of training coaching staff. The purpose of this research is to improve the training system for figure skaters and figure skating specialists.

The modern system of refereeing has fundamental differences in the technology of evaluation of competitive programs and is served on the basis of multimedia technologies, which implies the training of new specialists. The main task of research conducted at the department is to assess the parameters of the coordination complexity of the structural elements of competitive programs in all types of figure skating. On the basis of research, computer courses are being developed that allow more effectively to prepare specialists for the new judging of the MIS.

Already at our department on the basis of multimedia technologies, a computer-based educational and methodological manual "Assessing the coordination complexity of the rotation elements and steps tracks on the new system of judging by the IMS" was developed and created. The stinger.

Currently, RGUFK is preparing for the transition to a new education system under the Bologna Convention, which provides for a multi-level process of training higher education specialists in the field of physical culture and sports.

She was working in Turkey, but came back to Russia to work in Sambo-70 for Elena Tchaikovskaya.
 
btw, here is a video of this Yantar sport complex official opening and presentation for TV. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAmfCIF1aDE The training facility was build by Sambo-70 in 2010.

Interesting. Elena Tchaikovskaya told that she is going to bring Russian coaches back from Canada and US. What year did Eteri make her comeback to Russia from US? I guess this is it. This was probably Elena Tchaikovskaya who invited Eteri to Sambo-70 and back to Russia. Although, IFAIK Eteri previously had been coaching somewhere else in Moscow before getting hired by Sambo-70. And Eteri is at another ice rink - at Khrustalny, not Yantar. But curious.

BTW, Elena Tchaikovskaya was promised her own ice rink after Maria Butyrskaya won Worlds (was it in '96, right?). So 14 years later she got a new shiny building, and probably pulled Eteri from US to Moscow to coach kids. So we need to thank Maria Butyrskaya's gold medal for Alyona Kostornaya (and probably Eteri). Ha! Alyona started skating in this new training facility which was build because of Tchaikovskaya reputation and Butyrskaya's gold medal. :cool2:

I guess: "Spasibo, Masha Butyrskaya! Now we have Alyona Kostornaya because of you!" (on probably Eteri because of the new Yantar building and Tchaikovskaya's invitation) :agree: Where is our @mrrice when you need one? No one can appreciate Butyrskaya better than him.
 
Interesting post. :thank:

I'm interested, do you remember the source that told you the part I quoted?

Skype with my old friend from Moscow. His nephew is training at Tchaikovskaya's school on this Yantar ice rink, which is a part of Sambo-70.

ETA: Just accidentally found this: https://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/figureworld/2293555.html

Tchaikovskaya mildly criticizing Zhenya. Basically she emphasized this: "Where is our goddess Evgenia Medvedeva which we love so much? Where is her technicality, her lightness, her charisma, her it-factor. She is one the genious figure skater. We want revival."

Hm, Tchaikovskaya and Eteri seem to be a team. While TAT, Besti and CSKA lobby seem to be in another camp. :)
 
Actually, gymnastics is very much moving away from tiny 16 y.o. winning everything, and has been for quite some time. E.g. if you check out the results from this year's Worlds, 5 out of 6 medal podiums included at least two gymnasts (out of the three medalists) older than 20.

From an outside perspective of a gymnastics fan, ladies figure skating already is seen as a sport won primarily by girls while the older ones might be more entertaining, but can't keep up with the young ones. It's like gymnastics between the 70s and early 2000s, while on the other hand gymnastics is constantly moving away from that way of competition. So, in a way what you fear has already happened, or at least is perceived that way.

Yes. Thank you. We see similar situation here now. FS is evolving now too. I guess the ladies will push the boundaries difficulty as much as currently possible, and later on it will roll back a bit to logical level - higher in difficulty than now, but still aesthetically pleasant. Soviets and than Americans and emigrated Russian coaches in US pushed the difficulty in gymnastics. And now Russian and Japanese coaches pushing difficulty in Ladies figure skating. I think it is time for Ladies FS to evolve too.

Eteri taught her student to say: "if boys can jump quads, why girls are not allowed?". Smart move from Eteri. Girl power and all of that. She is herself could be a big figure for feminism: a strong-willed independent modern woman. Hated by male coaches and thrashed by men at rubbish TSL. Gossiped about and dehumanized by losers on FS forums. In short, Eteri - love her or hate her methods and brutal honesty - is a no-bs woman who means strictly business. :D
 
btw, here is a video of this Yantar sport complex official opening and presentation for TV. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAmfCIF1aDE The training facility was build by Sambo-70 in 2010.

Interesting. Elena Tchaikovskaya told that she is going to bring Russian coaches back from Canada and US. What year did Eteri make her comeback to Russia from US? I guess this is it. This was probably Elena Tchaikovskaya who invited Eteri to Sambo-70 and back to Russia. Although, IFAIK Eteri previously had been coaching somewhere else in Moscow before getting hired by Sambo-70. And Eteri is at another ice rink - at Khrustalny, not Yantar. But curious.

BTW, Elena Tchaikovskaya was promised her own ice rink after Maria Butyrskaya won Worlds (was it in '96, right?). So 14 years later she got a new shiny building, and probably pulled Eteri from US to Moscow to coach kids. So we need to thank Maria Butyrskaya gold medal for Eteri and Alyona Kostornaya. Ha! Alyona started skating in this new training facility which was build because of Butyrskaya's gold medal. :cool2:

I guess: "Spasibo, Masha Butyrskaya! Now we have Alyona Kostornaya because of you!" (on probably Eteri because of the new Yantar building and Tchaikovskaya's invitation) :agree: Where is our @mrrice when you need one? No one can appreciate Butyrskaya better than him.

Tchaikovskaya helped Maria Butyrskaya to win her first European title in '98 and then worlds in '99. I remember it was a big deal as Maria was the first russian woman to EVER win the world title. And she was 26 years old!:shocked:
 
Skype with my old friend from Moscow. His nephew is training at Tchaikovskaya's school on this Yantar ice rink, which is a part of Sambo-70.

Thank you :)
Forgive me for being skeptical still) I appreciate your dedication to learning about Tchaikovskaya and Eteri, but I would be believe an official news source over hearsay

You also said that Tchaikovskaya brought Eteri back from America to Moscow. This is untrue from my own research.
Eteri did coach a few Russian schools before Sambo, she had trouble finding work. Tchaikovskaya told Eteri that she could not help, though Eteri was ready to train for free. This was from interview with Eteri.

I have read a couple of interviews and Tchaikovskaya is stingy with both praise and criticism when talking to reporters. Someone translated an interview here earlier this season where the reporter was trying to get Tchaikovskaya to say that Eteri and her girls carried the Olympic team, but Tchaikovskaya kept saying that the team silver was a team effort :laugh: so I have always thought her a fair person.

But maybe you are right, she is true power behind Russian ladies :laugh:

Tchaikovskaya has a mean side, though. In that same interview she told a reporter she knows all the real information of what happened with Zhenya and Eteri but we poor fans still know nothing.
Why does Tchaikovskaya tease us like that? :sad21:
 
I feel the same. I just add one thing here, Gubanova desrves a better programs. IMHO. Send Misha Ge or Daniil Gleykhengauz to her. Or somebody else, with similarly "fresh" choreo taste.

I fear that Gubanova will miss out on GB assignments again next year. She is currently ranked #10 russian on the SB list, and there is max 9 girls from each country if they all get 2 assignments. Plus, Konstantinova (ranked below her) and Radionova/Pogorilaya (if they return) will probably get assignments ahead of her, so Gubanova is in reality ranked ~#13 which is not enough.:sad4:
 
I fear that Gubanova will miss out on GB assignments again next year. She is currently ranked #10 russian on the SB list, and there is max 9 girls from each country if they all get 2 assignments. Plus, Konstantinova (ranked below her) and Radionova/Pogorilaya (if they return) will probably get assignments ahead of her, so Gubanova is in reality ranked ~#13 which is not enough.:sad4:

Not to mention how she's bumped off the National Team because of Medvedeva's scandalous overscoring in Nationals.
 
... Gossiped about and dehumanized by losers on FS forums.... :D

I am a woman. I am a woman of a certain age. I am a feminist.

From what I have seen, I do not like Eteri's methods. I do not like the way she, an adult woman, gossips about teenagers. I do not think she is honest, with herself or with anyone else, let alone "brutally" honest. She is about as far from a feminist figure as you can get, for me. I also don't think, as I have stated in another thread, that quads quads quads is the evolution of a sport, sport, sport, pushing envelopes, breaking boundaries, but that is another issue, and not relevant here :bed:

I am not certain how saying that folks who hold that opinion are "losers on an FS forum" will get us to change our minds?:confused2:
 
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