Would Cohen have climbed to the top if she stayed with Tarasova?

[Mathman]

Way back then, Internet skating forums had the "LSC" phenomenon going. This stands for Lipinski, Slutskaya, Cohen. Another name for this faction was the "Anyone But Michelle" brigade (RD remembers them well . There was actually a U.S. Nationals thread with that title: Anyone But Michelle.)

These were people who had (what seemed to be) an irrational antipathy for Michelle Kwan and so latched on to whoever they thought might have a chance to beat her. The feeling among Kwan fans was that these posters didn't really care anything about Tara or Irina or Sasha, the only virtue of these skaters being that they weren't Michelle.

Sarah Hughes never got tarred by that particular brush. I suppose it was because no one could conceive of Sarah ever beating Michelle -- until she did, LOL.

 

[SeaniBu]

Running into Sasha twice, some random guy giving us backstage passes so I got to meet everyone on the cast pretty much...lol)

I remember you saying that you and your (lucky) boyfriend got that opportunity. Hows your mouth / bight?

And maybe that guy wasn't "really" random at all." ??? mooha-ha-ha! *theme from Twilight Zone* It may have been Red Dog incognito sent by GS to get you "Back Stage."?????

 

[SeaniBu]

(what seemed to be) an irrational antipathy for Michelle Kwan

What else could it have been other than "irrational?" Of course it is.:agree:

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

There was an incredible amount of antiKwan posts during that period and the periods before. Both Sasha and Michelle got their shares of venom. There is still one antiKwan poster - a great defender of Sasha, btw who really can't stand MK and her fans by admission.

Joe

 

[Spun Silver]

Interesting. I had no idea about the history of anti-Kwan posts. There is so little of that now, v. continuing anti-Cohen ones.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Well, there isn't that much to say about Kwan these day, so it's just little jabs at her now - not the bashing she used to get.

btw, I saw her in a commercial for women on the WE cable station looking very motherly and not glamorous.

Joe

 

[R.D.]

Actually, the anti-Kwan posts were more on the "underground" forums (which were extremely popular at the time- they were a "no-holds-barred" place for fans to vent and say what they couldn't say on the general forums). I don't remember a lot of Kwan bashing here...maybe this was before my "time". What I DO remember, though, was that anyone who DID dare to "bash", "slight", or say something about her that was not flattering was immediately jumped on- I found this out the hard way when I first joined.

The "anyone but MK" thread was NOT (intended to be) an anti-Kwan thread, but a place for folks who were tired of her winning and wanted someone else to win to post and cheer their skater on. (I was one of those people, but never cheered for a particular skater to beat her- I just wanted someone to step up.) But something was said- forget what it was- and this upset the Kwanfans and a huge fight erupted. Keep in mind that for every non-Kwan fan there were about 4 Kwanfans to breathe down his/her neck. it got very ugly quickly. That atmosphere persisted until recently (during the Torino Games), although it was at its worst in 2003 and let up slightly around 2005-ish. Keep in mind that during this time some pretty nasty things were said about her competitors- Sarah Hughes (who was called all sorts of names I dare not repeat), Irina Slutskaya (although I might have contributed at the time because I didn't like her much), and especially Cohen, who I considered to be the "main target". I think Tara Lipinski might have been "fair game" but that was before my internet time...in fact, I continued to sense unusual sort of resentment towards her until recently. I do not miss those days- I like it now much better

I think there still might be slight bitterness among some of us long-timers over this debacle but I think for the most part we've gotten over it. (the fact we're talking about this openly and civilly proves it!) I've never seen a skater to provoke such strong feelings (positive or negative) and that has the power to polarize fans as much as Michelle Kwan. Any other skater (yes, even Cohen) pales in comparison when it comes to that power.

And yes, that W.E. commercial is on their web site. Yes, she looks nice.

 

[R.D.]

That said, there were also some pretty informative and interesting threads, mostly connecting skating to ballet, sports psychology, etc. I think one poster had a background in that stuff and started some very fascinating topics...but she doesn't come here any more...

 

[Mathman]

The "anyone but MK" thread was NOT (intended to be) an anti-Kwan thread, but a place for folks who were tired of her winning and wanted someone else to win to post and cheer their skater on. (I was one of those people, but never cheered for a particular skater to beat her- I just wanted someone to step up.)

Dog, you really need to think about that. Don't you see why that attitude infuriated people?

You didn't like any skater enough to root for that skater to win, but your dreams would come true if Michelle lost. That's what made everyone mad.

 

[Mathman]

Actually, the anti-Kwan posts were more on the "underground" forums (which were extremely popular at the time- they were a "no-holds-barred" place for fans to vent and say what they couldn't say on the general forums).

Yeah, those sites were a trip. Although there were anti-Kwan posts along the lines of "kill the gook," most of the threads were on the order of, "what position would you like to do Alexei Yagudin in?"

 

[R.D.]

Dog, you really need to think about that. Don't you see why that attitude infuriated people?

You didn't like any skater enough to root for that skater to win, but your dreams would come true if Michelle lost. That's what made everyone mad.

you know, honestly I don't think at the time it would have made much of a difference whether I was, say a Sasha fan, Sarah fan or a non-fan. All that mattered was that in some way I was cheering against MK. I mean, consider that at the time of that thread most people thought I was a rabid Cohen fan, not a nonfan!! (For the newer posters reading this, we're talking right before the start of Nationals '03, when GS was still part of the ezboard network.) Maybe I ticked off more people than the other fans did because unlike them I was actually bold enough to come out and say it. But I was a newbie to skating forums then so how could I have known? I mean, after all I wasn't posting this at MKF...or at least I THOUGHT I wasn't!

Actually, out of the FEW original so-called "non-Kwan" posters that "took a stand" back in '02 and spoke up about the situation, I might be the only one still posting here today. All the others either left or got banned.

Yeah, those sites were a trip. Although there were anti-Kwan posts along the lines of "kill the gook," most of the threads were on the order of, "what position would you like to do Alexei Yagudin in?"

yup, and that's what ultimately drove me away from those sites. Too much of that stuff...plus being a guy, you know...

P.S. I can't imagine the far left turn this thread just took... for all GS posters this is a nice board history lesson

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

RD - Relax. Give it up. Kwan's gone.

 

[antmanb]

SS- you should have come here and said that in 2004. Then again, I'm not sure you'd have lasted long

Actually, I was one of the few that, at the time, dared to stick up for her at times when she was just being pummeled and what happened? I got pushed aside and written off as a rabid fan. *bleh* go figure.

Basically, my point is that I think most people get it. What I don't understand is the double standard I once noticed for Kwan seems to be transferring over to Cohen. Other skaters DO get criticized harshly- maybe not as much- but I didn't see this strong of a counterattack towards anyone who, for example, called Kimmie boring and uninspiring. (Save, I was one of those folks.) If someone said that about Cohen you and Dee would have been on the prowl, ready to pounce. I don't mind my thoughts being challenged or seeing others' opinions being challenged, but if we're going to do it let's at least be somewhat consistent

I will agree though that calling her "lazy" is stretching it- although I can bet that Lanie doesn't mean it in the sense that we think about it (couch potato), but just that she doesn't work quite as hard on what she needs to work on as a skater at her level would require- especially that of a champion.

But then red dog why are you surprised - you seem to be saying that once upon a time when she was being bashed, you stuck up for her and now that she is being praised you bash her more often than not....so maybe the answer to your question lies in yourself. Why did you suddenly do a 180?

Ant

 

[Kwanford Wife]

It surprises me that someone as mechanical as Michelle who just crunches out jumps consistently can inspire such heartfelt devotion when a delicate creature such as Sasha can inspire such disdain. Every emotion and disappointment registers in this girl's eyes when she competes and I imagine that as a student she is very similar.

Oh pish posh... Sasha isn't some delicate flower who shouldn't be above any critisim of her skating... she was hyped to death and accomplished a lot. I'm sure there are tons of skaters who wish they had her competitive record...

As for Michelle... she is not mechanical... she's just perfect...

 

[Spun Silver]

Harumph!

 

[Kwanford Wife]

Harumph!

stop it... you know its true...

 

[Spun Silver]

I wasn't harumphing about Michelle's perfection - ya think I'm stoopid? I know when I'm overpowered!

But Sasha now - she's a tiny fragile rose who deserves every benefit of the doubt!

 

[R.D.]

that's ridiculous

 

[Spun Silver]

The flowers are bigger than she is.
http://www.sashafans.com/media/screencaptures/2003lalique/lp16.jpg

 

[Kwanford Wife]

I wasn't harumphing about Michelle's perfection - ya think I'm stoopid? I know when I'm overpowered!

But Sasha now - she's a tiny fragile rose who deserves every benefit of the doubt!

The funniest part would be Sasha's mortified reaction at being thought of as a delicate little rose... that girl is a lot of things, but I think she's more piss & vinegar than delicate & sensitive... which is much cooler anyway...

I just refuse to believe that competing at this level these athletes are tougher than we'd like to give them credit for because we like the ice princess concept... oh well... the important thing is that we all agree that Michelle is perfect...