2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[Edwin]

Watch any commercial tournament in a high prestige upmarket sport like equestrian: sponsored dinner tables at the front rows for the wealthy to be pampered with champagne and caviar and to show off their latest designer outfits and accessories. Those people come and go during competition, hardly paying any attention to the game in play, but concentrate on socialising with their own kind.

Normal people like you and me are high up in the bleachers, still needing to pay lots of money for their tickets to foot the bill of those sponsor boxes.

Commercial figure skating shows hardly have any appeal to children and youth, most of the audience is middle aged to elderly couples enjoying a night out, equal to attending a classical concert, opera or ballet.

And in general it is true, most governments (or rather the people that voted them into power) don't care to spend public money (taxes paid by those who voted) on equal opportunities to participate in healthy sports for all children. Those egoistical liberal voters are likely not to spend their taxes/money on other children's sporting opportunities, but rather concentrate on their own children.

PE at schools is also a subject that needs to fight for its existence, as is compulsory swimming lessons for all 6-8 year olds in my country. Money matters more than children's health and safety.

 

[malya]

I read somewhere that Mishin, when asked about Sofia, stated that he still has no clear statement from the Fed whether Sofia is going to Worlds. Now, with both Liza and Zhenya apparently not going to Universiade, I'm getting really worried that they will take Sofia off the Worlds team. Don't get me wrong, I am a huge fan of both Liza and Zhenya and wish them all success and happiness in the world. But this year, Sofia earned her place on the Worlds team fair and square. What kind of message would it send to young and upcoming Russian skaters if they take her off the team after all she has achieved this season?

They will not sent this message directly. Sofia will be named for the team as the EC - but she might get some suspicious illness for worlds...

I don't think the girls will have problems bringing 3 quotas for next year whoever goes.

 

[Arbitrary]

I'd bet Zagi and Medv will not be in the same team.

 

[flanker]

We need to cancel 3percontrying. We want to see the best against the best on Worlds. Raise your hand who bothers with watching first 2 warm-ups? They are pretty meaningless anyway. Figure skating would be much more spectacular if we would get to see all talented and strongest skater to be given their fair chance. Worlds would be more exciting to watch.

Let's STOP this discriminative quota system! Otherwise talented skaters (who train very hard) have to stay home just because they were born at the countries with deep field, and less talented skaters (and probably less trained and prepared) are going to competion instead of them just because they were born at the country/continent with less concurrent field. Not fair to those who are more talented and work harder.

I watch even the first groups, mostly, it's like my warm-up before the "big things on the ice". But yes, I agree that maximum 3 spots per country is tragically low number. As someone (I believe it was Elena Radionova) suggested, the worlds (europeans/4CC) spots shoud be derived from world standings like they do in tennis. It is sad that many top skaters have no chance to be on big competitions or have to change country they are representing just to be there.

 

[DenissVFan]

Donovan Carrillo and the like didn't steal anyone's spot. You don't know whether they are less hardworking or talented than Russian or Japanese skaters. What we know for sure is that they didn't have the resources and the support of big federations and, against all odds, managed to reach the minimum technical scores allowing them to compete at ISU championships. Bear in mind that not all of the skaters you see at ISU championships have the luxury of training on ice for a couple hours 6 days a week. Javier Fernandez used to be an early group skater. Was he unworthy of anyone's time? Besides, many people prefer watching somebody like Donovan or Sondre over Samarin or Zhou.

Also, you can take up some other sports not long before the Olympics and still qualify for it (do you recall last year's headlines?). It's not the case in figure skating. All the skaters who go to the ISU championships are not mere amateurs.

I'd like to see 4 Russian and 4 Japanese ladies at Worlds but it's not a reason to put down skaters who didn't have the same opportunities as them.

 

[flanker]

Inclusivity in sport is discriminative and pretty stupid. I would forbid any flags and anthems on Olympics and Worlds. For everyone. Sport fans know where their favorite athletes are from. I want to see all strongest athletes on competition. Everyone should be given a fair chance disregarding his/her/their nationality and place of birth. There should be no "inclusivity" in sports. Only strongest against the strongest. Sport becoming more globalized now. We care less about athletes nationality and language they speak, but we want to see the true ultimate competition of the best. Language will be no problem soon - with recent breakthrough in neuro-networks and machine learning translation services like Google-translate, Yandex.translate and others are getting amazingly better with every year, soon translation services and apps capable of translating everything (including human speech) "on a fly" will be available. We see many Americans rooting for Russian girls, we see many Russians staning Hanyu and other Japanese skaters, we see many Japanese fangirling over random skaters and adoring figure skating in general. We see international fans interacting freely with their favorite athletes via social media just by using google-translate. Lately athletes need less corportive/national journalism and more individual spokesperson/agent. That's the global tendency. Screw the flags, let's ban all national symbols from the Olympics. This will take the unnecessary nationalistic edge off the sport. Olympics would not be celebration of nationalistic pride any more, but become a party of high-performance sports and international friendship. And an inspiration of sort. Sure, random politicians and nationalists can still (and will) celebrate and count their medals at home, but this useless habbit will die soon anyways, if the general atmosphere on competitions will be less about the nationalism and more about the professional sport and fairness. Everyone will win. Politicians sponging on nationalism will loose. World peace - 1, politicians - 0.

But this would also take most of the feeling out of sport. No matter if someone likes it all not, people tend to feel the need of having some connection, some bond among each other that unites them. I don't wanna talk about politics and not only because it is prohibited, but in sport there is always more than just "best performance". That does not mean you can't be fan of an athlete (or team) from another country, but at least me still feel a connection for the athletes from my homeland. And as we are here for russian ladies, I would be fan of my favorites (all A's and others) if they would come from whatever country, but I'm glad they come from a country to which people I feel stronger bond (being Slav - the culture, the way of thinking etc.) than to others, I'm sorry but that's how it is.

 

[starlight97]

Is there any possible truth to the rumors that they are seriously considering sending Liza AND Evgenia and taking the spot away from Alina?
This is insane to me and such favouritism. Alina's SP and FS are light years more difficult than Evgenia's. She has transitions in and out of everything and performs two 3Lz combos in the FS alone. She has impeccable spins and great speed and flow. She does struggle with the jumps, yes. But which Olympic Champ has had a strong season after winning the Olympics? They all either sat out or straight up retired/messed up in recent years.

Even with Alina's struggles right now her showings this season have been way stronger that Evgenia's, and so has her skating. I'd be really appalled if they gave her spot to Evgenia. And I'm saying this as someone who prefers Evgenia over Alina as sportsmen.

 

[meadow]

Is there any possible truth to the rumors that they are seriously considering sending Liza AND Evgenia and taking the spot away from Alina?
This is insane to me and such favouritism. Alina's SP and FS are light years more difficult than Evgenia's. She has transitions in and out of everything and performs two 3Lz combos in the FS alone. She has impeccable spins and great speed and flow. She does struggle with the jumps, yes. But which Olympic Champ has had a strong season after winning the Olympics? They all either sat out or straight up retired/messed up in recent years.

Even with Alina's struggles right now her showings this season have been way stronger that Evgenia's, and so has her skating. I'd be really appalled if they gave her spot to Evgenia. And I'm saying this as someone who prefers Evgenia over Alina as sportsmen.

I agree on everything! I hope the rumors are just rumors and nothing more. I don't know where/how they started, but I still think they would have asked Alina to skate at Russian Cup Final if her spot was at risk.

 

[malya]

I agree on everything! I hope the rumors are just rumors and nothing more. I don't know where/how they started, but I still think they would have asked Alina to skate at Russian Cup Final if her spot was at risk.

Exactly, I have no doubt Alina will get her spot if she is healthy. Maybe the council can and should take a look at Alina & Sofia's training and see if they are training ok and can do their 3-3 before worlds, otherwise there is no reason.

This is just speculations or wishful thinking from fans or dumb russian personalities connected to skating talking to the press to generate hype. Negative hype = also good, apparently.

Everything to start some Zhenya vs Alina fanbattle again, when it's actually about the Mishin girls

 

[norwegianfairytale]

But this would also take most of the feeling out of sport. No matter if someone likes it all not, people tend to feel the need of having some connection, some bond among each other that unites them. I don't wanna talk about politics and not only because it is prohibited, but in sport there is always more than just "best performance". That does not mean you can't be fan of an athlete (or team) from another country, but at least me still feel a connection for the athletes from my homeland. And as we are here for russian ladies, I would be fan of my favorites (all A's and others) if they would come from whatever country, but I'm glad they come from a country to which people I feel stronger bond (being Slav - the culture, the way of thinking etc.) than to others, I'm sorry but that's how it is.

I agree with you.

I would probably never have discovered figure skating if it wasn´t for Anne Line Gjersem participating in OG. So I started to look at the big competitions because of her, and my interested kept growing as I also at the same time discovered other talented skaters! Figure skating isn´t that popular sport in Norway, but Sondre Oddvolls Bøe recent presentation has led to several recent media coverage and more followers in Norway. This also makes younger skaters inspired and keep going, when they see what is possible for small federation, that will inspire starting figure s kating. Also sponsor in Norway is really difficult, but having a rising star could make a difference.

If the system hadn´t been like this, Sondre would probably have given up long time ago, because it would seem impossible to get at spot in the big competition, and therefor no motivation to continue. Remember that a lot of countrys don´t have the ice hall, the funding, the oppurtinity to develop skaters from young age, for several reasons, mostly culture. So they start later, develop later.

If you change the rules, and there isn´t a maximum 3 spots per country in the big competitionts, it would mean a lot of skaters from small federation would never make it, fewer will be inspired to start skate from those countrys, so eventually I believe the only one skating would be from USA, Japan and Russian, where there is culture for starting early, there is the conditions, there is sponsor and money. There will probably also be less fans around the world, who like to follow and have the interest if they havn´t a reason for discovering the sport, or follow one national skater.

Figure skating like it is now is a more including world sport. Which it should be. I also love the fact that you get to see different culture in the skating, like music choice, style etc.

Also like someone mentions, the is requirements for participating in Euros and Worlds. You have to have the TES and the skaters participating are not amateurs.

I try to see all the groups in the championship, but may skip a group due to lack of time. But it has nothing to with that i´m bored by early group skaters. I also see small competitions. I love to see new skaters, potensial, who has developed. Of course I also love too see the really good skaters with quads, which are very technical and have nice jumps. But also there is a lot of skaters which are just basically technical and doesn´t have musicality, a boring choreo and gives me nothing, also remember this sport is about art. Actually the norwegian word for figure skating is "kunstløp", which can be translated into "art skating".

 

[flanker]

Haha, it is not like Alina would want to give up to her lifelong Olympic salary or the back of an important federation as RusFed.
Whereas RusFed can very well exist without Alina as the next season they will have the 3A.
She needs more the Rusfed than the RusFed needs her.

I bet the only people in the world of figure skating Alina needs are those from her coaching team. But Alina is a patriot and she would hardly change the country so it wasn't meant seriously at all. But girl - er, I mean boy - can have dreams.

you cannot compare how Evgenia performed at last year Euros and Alina at this year.
Evgenia had a very very small mistake (step out from 2A) while Alina literally bombed the Euros.

If we speak about bombing, we have seen no less than three bombings by Evgenia this season and the rest was - average at best.

lets see it in perspective:
Pre GP competitions:
Alina -WR at Nebelhornand superb performance at Japan open
Zhenya - So-so performance at Autumn Classic

GP:
Alina - gold in Helsinki, gold in Moscow, silver at GP final (all with some difficulties but still among the best performances of the season)
Zhenya - bronze at Skate Canada where she nearly bombed, 4th in Francewhere she totally bombed, not able to go go to GP final

RusNats:
Alina -superb SP, bombed FS, still not a disaster in total (with the very first fall of the season, who can say this about other skater), qualified for Euros and worlds
Zhenya - bombed SP, FS so-so, with very generous score not able qualify for Euros and worlds

Euros and after:
Alina - well performed SP, fall in FS, but also some great savings, despite vile talks from "not fans of her coach" she managed to take silver
Zhenya - not able to qualify, with literally one pretty good skate for the whole season. That's not hostility, that's fact. Then arranged presence on 2nd-rate competition to "prove she is worth". her performance was good, I admit, despite I have my doubts about how her performance was rewarded in comparison with Liza. But again - this competition was literally the only competition to be proud during the whole season. In comparison with Alina who people like you are truing to bury under openly hostile comments, who set the world record, won three golds and two silvers internationally (plus silver at JO with totally superb performance), it is really chap shot.

Again we can talk about score. Till now Alina had one int. competition where she scored under 200. During the same time Zhenya had one int. competition where she received over 200. And if people say Alina's good performances were only at the beginning of the season (like silver at GPF was something not even worth to mention), Zhenya's only over 200 int. performance was even earlier.

Let's admit that on last two competitions Alina had troubles during her free skate. Well, while this is experience which every athlete goes through sometimes, it is still fact that she is top skater who had made mistakes so few times that when some appeared, people instatly jump into conclusion "she is done" or whatever nonsense.

All those suggestions about who deserves what (with using extensive cherrypicking) is nothing more than expression of personal feelings towards particular person and we all know who this person is. They say revenge is sweet, but one should not misuse other person, completely innocent in watever injustice some people may feel.

 

[madison]

I bet the only people in the world of figure skating Alina needs are those from her coaching team. But Alina is a patriot and she would hardly change the country so it wasn't meant seriously at all. But girl - er, I mean boy - can have dreams.



If we speak about bombing, we have seen no less than three bombings by Evgenia this season and the rest was - average at best.

lets see it in perspective:
Pre GP competitions:
Alina -WR at Nebelhornand superb performance at Japan open
Zhenya - So-so performance at Autumn Classic

GP:
Alina - gold in Helsinki, gold in Moscow, silver at GP final (all with some difficulties but still among the best performances of the season)
Zhenya - bronze at Skate Canada where she nearly bombed, 4th in Francewhere she totally bombed, not able to go go to GP final

RusNats:
Alina -superb SP, bombed FS, still not a disaster in total (with the very first fall of the season, who can say this about other skater), qualified for Euros and worlds
Zhenya - bombed SP, FS so-so, with very generous score not able qualify for Euros and worlds

Euros and after:
Alina - well performed SP, fall in FS, but also some great savings, despite vile talks from "not fans of her coach" she managed to take silver
Zhenya - not able to qualify, with literally one pretty good skate for the whole season. That's not hostility, that's fact. Then arranged presence on 2nd-rate competition to "prove she is worth". her performance was good, I admit, despite I have my doubts about how her performance was rewarded in comparison with Liza. But again - this competition was literally the only competition to be proud during the whole season. In comparison with Alina who people like you are truing to bury under openly hostile comments, who set the world record, won three golds and two silvers internationally (plus silver at JO with totally superb performance), it is really chap shot.

Again we can talk about score. Till now Alina had one int. competition where she scored under 200. During the same time Zhenya had one int. competition where she received over 200. And if people say Alina's good performances were only at the beginning of the season (like silver at GPF was something not even worth to mention), Zhenya's only over 200 int. performance was even earlier.

Let's admit that on last two competitions Alina had troubles during her free skate. Well, while this is experience which every athlete goes through sometimes, it is still fact that she is top skater who had made mistakes so few times that when some appeared, people instatly jump into conclusion "she is done" or whatever nonsense.

All those suggestions about who deserves what (with using extensive cherrypicking) is nothing more than expression of personal feelings towards particular person and we all know who this person is. They say revenge is sweet, but one should not misuse other person, completely innocent in watever injustice some people may feel.

Do you even bother to read all the disccusion before answering with this long comment?
1. My comment about Alina's and Evgenia's performances at Euros (this season and last season) were as a reply to other comments in which the two of them were compared to these particular competitions.
2. My convinction is that Alina should have been made to skate at Russian Cup Final like all the other 3 ladies.
3. Yes, she needs the RusFed more than the RusFed needs her. It is naive to think otherwise.
PS Please read before commenting and make sure you understand the context of the comments. i dont want to waste my time to answer to this type of replies. Thanks!

 

[meadow]

Exactly, I have no doubt Alina will get her spot if she is healthy. Maybe the council can and should take a look at Alina & Sofia's training and see if they are training ok and can do their 3-3 before worlds, otherwise there is no reason.

This is just speculations or wishful thinking from fans or dumb russian personalities connected to skating talking to the press to generate hype. Negative hype = also good, apparently.

Everything to start some Zhenya vs Alina fanbattle again, when it's actually about the Mishin girls

Yep, every occasion is good to drag this girls in another supposed rivalry. I don't think this does anyone any good I would be happy if Evgenia got sent to World, but not at the expense of someone who had better results and wants to compete there.
Like you said, they can take a closer look at Alina if they think she's not healthy enough for worlds. Maybe they already did or they don't even think is necessary, considering the only one who was asked to prove herself was Liza.

 

[Mathman]

That's the point. You still are speaking about "countries", and I'm offering to remove this word from the equation at all. ...

To tell the truth, I am not so terribly outraged by the current system. For historical reasons, and for better or worse, figure skating is an international sport, not a non-national sport. Each member of the International Skating Union has the right to send its champion to compete at the big show.

As for members who have a lot of outstanding skaters, and must choose between sending world champion Tuktamysheva or world champion Medvedeva (other countries wish they faced such a choice!), there are two rules that soften the blow.

1. The minimum TEC requirement guarantees that we won't fill up the world roster with Eddie-the-Eagles.

2. Members can win up to two extra slots by demonstrating that they have more than one skater that deserve to be in the mix.

If the ISU wanted to raise the maximum representation per member from 3 to 4, that would be OK. But I don't see any major shifts in philosphy on the horizon.

 

[flanker]

Do you even bother to read all the disccusion before answering with this long comment?
1. My comment about Alina's and Evgenia's performances at Euros (this season and last season) were as a reply to other comments in which the two of them were compared to these particular competitions. So much about the context.
2. My convinction is that Alina should have been made to skate at Russian Cup Final like all the other 3 ladies.
3. Yes, she needs the RusFed more than the RusFed needs her. It is naive to think otherwise.
PS Please read before commenting and make sure you understand the context of the comments. i dont want to waste my time to answer to this type of replies. Thanks!

1. Yes, and I also bothered to read most of your comments during the year I spent on this page and I feel authorized to say that all your comments come from the very same premise. This is also to your PS.
2. Your conviction is your conviction, not reality. Int. achievents of both, or if we talk about all potential skaters for worlds, speak for themselves, no matter how much you ignore it and judge just by one recent 2nd grade domestic competition.
3. Nothing I care about.

 

[Scott512]

Do you even bother to read all the disccusion before answering with this long comment?
1. My comment about Alina's and Evgenia's performances at Euros (this season and last season) were as a reply to other comments in which the two of them were compared to these particular competitions.
2. My convinction is that Alina should have been made to skate at Russian Cup Final like all the other 3 ladies.
3. Yes, she needs the RusFed more than the RusFed needs her. It is naive to think otherwise.
PS Please read before commenting and make sure you understand the context of the comments. i dont want to waste my time to answer to this type of replies. Thanks!

Alina is Russian #1 and world #1 her position on world's team never should be in doubt. That's why she and Sofia did not skate at cup finals. They are on the world team. Stasya is out of contention now. The third choice is between Liza and Zhenya.

 

[plushyfan]

I don't think the problem is him thinking this - the problem is why would an influencial commentator like him SHARE a theory like that with the audience. You can believe what you want to believe and have your theories, but if they are not proven and only negative about an athlete (of your country!) you should not speak out loud if you have a big audience.

-> professionalism. In Russian FS it's different apparently

:thumbsup:

 

[Tolstoj]

Well the fact they're having any debate at all suggests they're trying to push Evgenia onto the team doesn't it?

Yeah but i don't understand what's the point, beyond pushing their favourite girls, like don't they realize they are kinda ruining Russia's dominance in ladies figure skating this way, as in my opinion they already did by letting all those skaters moving to Buyanova earlier this season? Are they okay with this because maybe ISU will help them with the boys, is there something we don't know?

I do too want to see Evgenia back, but it shouldn't be at the cost of taking away the spot from more deserving skaters.

..and therefore becoming rather boring. Hate Eteri or not, but packaging, programs and choreography by their team are never boring.

A little samey i'd argue. They overused slow piano music for the SP so many times: this season alone you can compare Tursynbaeva, Samsonov, Valieva's short programs, and yes sometimes they have some neat idea, like a program inspired by a paint is cool. They have a distinctive style and i've to say it's probably better than what most russian coaches and choreographers usually produce (i've seen some cringy programs from Volchova's students in the past).

I think the excitement from that group comes mostly from the training though with fast skating across the ice, very fast spins, good skating skills, innovative transitions, and the difficult elements.

While Brian's group is better at creating the "moments", they have better choreographers i think, but you can see the training is not as precise and their skaters leave points especially their ladies with the spins, with less consistency on the jumps, with less speed or more crossovers...

 

[Sugar Coated]

Getting rid of country limitations would ultimately be bad for figure skating. Ultimately ISU needs to fill stands for competitions and get broadcasting rights for financial reasons. If it’s only 1-2 countries that have skaters competing then eventually the sport loses fans from other countries and you lose kids who want to start ice skating.

What I think would be amazing for the sport is a documentary or reality show of Eteri’s team and the other Russian ladies. Get Netflix to sponsor and promote that. There is so much talent and enough drama that it would bring a whole new group of people to the sport. And ultimately skaters who aren’t in the top 3, but potentially popular from the show, can get a chance to tour and continue to perform for audiences across the world.

 

[bostonskaterguy86]

Alina is Russian #1 and world #1 her position on world's team never should be in doubt. That's why she and Sofia did not skate at cup finals. They are on the world team. Stasya is out of contention now. The third choice is between Liza and Zhenya.

THIS, thank you. The wild speculation and rumor-mongering on this thread is out of control. If there was any doubt in the Fed’s mind that Alina and Sofia belonged on the Worlds team then they would have skated at the Cup final. The fact that they didn’t is pretty conclusive that their spots are not in jeopardy. This was about assessing Liza’s readiness for Worlds after her illness, and giving Zhenya and Stanislava both the opportunity to prove that their less-than-stellar seasons are behind them in case Liza was not ready for Worlds. Liza proved she’s getting back into form, and Zhenya proved she’s on the upswing and likely in better shape at this point to be first alternate for Worlds over Stanislava.

Has Alina had her best season? Clearly, no. She’s not been consistent and as someone who admires her work ethic and her talent I’m hoping that she’s able to fix whatever isn’t working for her, whether it’s a mental block or an injury she’s struggling with or whatever. But if nothing else, she’s proven this season that even when she’s inconsistent and even when she melts down in the free skate she can still wind up on the podium. It’s going to be an uphill battle for her taking on Rika, and I sure as hell would not bet money on Alina taking the title - but at the end of the day, if the Worlds standings look anything like the GPF standings, then Russia keeps three slots and that’s what they want more than anything. Now that they know Liza is well enough to get through her programs and will likely only get stronger by Worlds, why wouldn’t they send the ladies who finished 2, 3 and 6 at an international competition against the same team from Japan that they’ll be facing at Worlds?

As much as I love Zhenya and I’m happy to see that she’s pulling through a difficult season, there’s no compelling reason to send her over Alina, Sofia or Liza. I do, however, think she beat Stanislava out for the first alternate spot.