If i could give an OGM to someone without one

[WeakAnkles]

I wished that Elena Berezhnaya and Anton Sikharulidze had won the 2002 Pairs Olympic Gold Medal solo instead of sharing. I was so irritated at how a few tears could get a gold medal.

Well a few tears and a major judging scandal...

But yes, I think they should have won that gold solo.

 

[ladyjane]

I wished that Elena Berezhnaya and Anton Sikharulidze had won the 2002 Pairs Olympic Gold Medal solo instead of sharing. I was so irritated at how a few tears could get a gold medal.

I don't think it was just the tears, there was a major problem with the judging of the Free Programme. It was a scandal. Having said that, the powers that be could just have discounted part of the judging of the FS, giving both couples the same number of firsts (the ordinals) and deleting the French vote. Then they would have even marks upon which no decision could be made. This outcome should not have led to sharing but should have made the short programme the decisive factor. And I believe B/S's win of that was not disputed at all. Nobody questioned it. To me, that would have been a better solution than the one the officials eventually came up with. The Free Skates were even: a complicated one with a small mistake, the other rather simple but totally clean. A question of taste as the other judges showed. Half of them preferred the one, and the other half the other. B/S however had the better Short. And that should have been it. However, that choice was not made, and it ended up with the not so satisfactory solution of sharing. Still better than turning silver and gold around though. That would have been the worst possible outcome. I think the solution of sharing was probably made to support the skaters involved, not taking away anything from B/S, but also taking account of S/P's feelings in the matter. It must be devastating to find out you lost because of a bribed judge. But there were in fact more judges who came to the same conclusion without bribery.

Well, the whole scandal got us IJS....

 

[Osmond4gold]

IMO, Osmond shouldn’t have won the Olympics, even if the GOE and PCS wasn’t as pro-Med/Zag. She had an error herself, and lower BV, and fewer transitions into and out of her jumps (even though the quality of the actual jumps were better overall). The scores should have been much closer, but I’d still give a slight edge to the Russians.

IMO she was pegged in the SP, as some did not want her to be a threat to the perceived podium. Had she legitimately been rewarded for superior speed, GOE, performance and skating skills, podium placements may have been different.

 

[mrrice]

Technically, Patrick has one. So, I'm going to go with Elvis or Kurt. It's a tie.

 

[Mathman]

I wished that Elena Berezhnaya and Anton Sikharulidze had won the 2002 Pairs Olympic Gold Medal solo instead of sharing. I was so irritated at how a few tears could get a gold medal.

But actually, the only tears that counted were the tears that judge Marie-Reine La Gougne broke into when confronted by Sally Stapleford when they returned to the hotel after the free skate. La Gougne tearfully confessed to having been pressured by Didier Gailhauget to vote for Berezhnaya and sikharudlidze no matter what because Gailhaguet had worked out a deal with Valentine Piseev.

Later she testified that, no, she msspoke. What she really meant was that she had been pressured by the Canadians who had sent her a birthday present a few months before, the minute they had learned that she would be judging pairs at the Olympics, those conniving rascals.

 

[Mathman]

I don't think it was just the tears, there was a major problem with the judging of the Free Programme. It was a scandal. Having said that, the powers that be could just have discounted part of the judging of the FS, giving both couples the same number of firsts (the ordinals) and deleting the French vote. Then they would have even marks upon which no decision could be made. This outcome should not have led to sharing but should have made the short programme the decisive factor.

I don't think it would have gone like that. There is a substitute judge who judges along with the nine scoring judges. In case one of the judges becomes unable to fulfill his/her responsibilities in the middle of an event, the scores of that extra judge are supposed to count instead. This was the ISU's official rule.

There has never been a provision that allows a tie in the free skate and a reversion to SP scores. (Of course the ISU and the IOC could have done it anyway, but they would have to break their own rules to do so.)

My memory of the details grows fuzzy, but I think that for this event the substitute judge went with Sale and Pelletier.

By the way, the immediate response of the ISU, under pressure from the IOC, was not the IJS but the "interim judging system." This was 6.0 but with anonymous judging. The ISU reasoned that the whole cause of the scandal was that figure skating judging was too transparent. If they threw a smokescreen around it, then no one could ever prove that the judging was not on the up and up.

 

[Skater Boy]

Technically, Patrick has one. So, I'm going to go with Elvis or Kurt. It's a tie.

LOL That's why i said individual gold - I know the way you people think on this forum lol. People with NO INDIVIDUAL gold medal. Not wanting more for someone one,not someone with a team gold.

 

[Skater Boy]

I am glad both Sale and Pelletier and B/S received gold and are not in need of one being awarded here lol. Both are wonderful teams. While I do not condone judge tampering separate from that I can see even in the 6.0 system how BS could win over the Canadians. If Canada won technically first and were second in artistry and the Russians second technically and first artistically the tie goes to artistry. So there are separate issues fair judging and the results.

 

[Mathman]

While I do not condone judge tampering separate from that I can see even in the 6.0 system how BS could win over the Canadians. If Canada won technically first and were second in artistry and the Russians second technically and first artistically the tie goes to artistry.

I think that's a little misleading, though. In 6.0 judging the only thing that counts is the ordinals. It is only on the level of the individual judge that "the tie goes to the presentation mark." At Salt Lake City only two judges had B&S and S&P tied. The Chinese Judge gave B&S 5.8, 5.9 and S&P 5.9, 5.8. B&S win the first place ordinal from that judge on the tie-breaker. Poland had it 5.7, 5.9 and 5.8, 5.8. B&S won that of first place ordinal, too.

The other 7 judges all had one or the other clearly ahead and no tie-breaker came into play.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I wished that Elena Berezhnaya and Anton Sikharulidze had won the 2002 Pairs Olympic Gold Medal solo instead of sharing. I was so irritated at how a few tears could get a gold medal.

Well, I was irritated that an unbiased French judge could have given gold to the Canadians - who skated a clean competition - and were initially placed 2nd to the Russians - whose FS was marred with a stepout error - but hey, I guess different things irritate different people.

 

[Danibellerika]

Sasha Cohen. But I will say, knowing the heartbreak of my fave lady not winning one has made me super grateful and more satisfied for my fave guy winning one (well, two).

 

[asiacheetah]

It was about a year ago we were all enamoured with the winter Olympics. I know many of us love skaters and have favoruites and strong opinions. I was wondering if you the ability to give Olympic Gold Medals to skaters without one who would you give one and why? I am saying awarding OGM to someone without one because then I think we get into a mess if we give OGMs to skaters who already have it because then we get well if we give Hanyu a third OGM then Yuna deserves three or Patrick so keeping it simple (let' see if we can stick to the rules lol) OGM's to those without an individual OGM.

I will start.


4. Okay might as well go with the flow. Patrick Chan is worthy of a OGM. Had the olympics been a bit earlier from Sochi he probably woudl have OGM. One thing that stands out above all skaters including Fernandez, Hanyu et al is this man's skating skills - the blade control, edging and stroking is magical The system does not really consider strongly how great Chan is as a purist.

6. Evgenia Medvedeva - a worthy champion and so close.

You're breaking your own rule. Patrick and Evgenia both have OGM. They were from the team event, but they both have OGM. (I won't go into how unfair I think the team event is if you're not from one of the big 3 countries).

Easy answer: Michelle Kwan

Edit Oops you did say Individual.

In that case, still just Michelle Kwan.

Patrick's Olympic performance in Sochi wasn't OGM worthy. He was justly rewarded in his other GP and WC events when he performed well.

 

[asiacheetah]

I wished that Elena Berezhnaya and Anton Sikharulidze had won the 2002 Pairs Olympic Gold Medal solo instead of sharing. I was so irritated at how a few tears could get a gold medal.

:shocked::shocked::shocked:

The one that was rigged? The one with obvious errors? The one that led to a revamp of the entire figure skating scoring system? THAT is the sword you're going to fall on?

 

[Nika09]

I think Daisuke Takahashi is too special to not be called as Oympic Champion. I"d correct that mistake in the book of FS history if I"ll have chance

Also Sui/Han and Papadakis/Cizeron...but they are still have their shot so fingers crossed!

 

[Skater Boy]

I think that's a little misleading, though. In 6.0 judging the only thing that counts is the ordinals. It is only on the level of the individual judge that "the tie goes to the presentation mark." At Salt Lake City only two judges had B&S and S&P tied. The Chinese Judge gave B&S 5.8, 5.9 and S&P 5.9, 5.8. B&S win the first place ordinal from that judge on the tie-breaker. Poland had it 5.7, 5.9 and 5.8, 5.8. B&S won that of first place ordinal, too.

The other 7 judges all had one or the other clearly ahead and no tie-breaker came into play.

I see but my point is it certainly was possible for B/S to legitimately win under 6.0. It is subjective. What was scandalous was the judge tamperingthe results ironically may not be so controversial. Its 2019 time to move on. The more we dwell the more skating gets killed and laughed at as a so called sport.

 

[Skater Boy]

You're breaking your own rule. Patrick and Evgenia both have OGM. They were from the team event, but they both have OGM. (I won't go into how unfair I think the team event is if you're not from one of the big 3 countries).

Easy answer: Michelle Kwan

Edit Oops you did say Individual.

In that case, still just Michelle Kwan.

Patrick's Olympic performance in Sochi wasn't OGM worthy. He was justly rewarded in his other GP and WC events when he performed well.

Thanks for realizing I did say Individual gold. And you can give gold for any reason - what is worthy well that is in the ye of the beholder. Some may say Savchenko and Massotdidn't "deserve" gold and it shouldhave been her former partner but life isn't fair.

This is a bit frustrating I said INDIVIDUAL INDIVIDUAL INDIVIDUALLY won a gold not a team gold. Ugh![/B]

 

[Globetrotter]

I don't know why everyone keeps saying Stojko was robbed in 1994, i thought Urmanov was really good and besides some bizarre choreography, he was the complete package.

In the past i was one of those people that thought several skaters were robbed at the Olympics, but i'm more and more realizing that the skaters who won, not just delivered but also used the rules in a smarter way than their competitors.

Mao Asada didn't really need 3 3As when the rules forced her to put it in combination in the short (and it was worth less than doing 3ltz-3t), Yuna Kim would have won Sochi with a 7 triples free skate, Slutskaya and Plushenko would have won in 2002 and 2010 with cleaner performances, Medvedeva would have beated Zagitova with two 3-3 in the second half, and so on.

We may as well say that Midori Ito would have won gold in 1992 over Kristi Yamaguchi under IJS judging. A 3A with second half bonus, stronger jump GOEs and better basic SS and having transitions because she could do them - these will score bigger than Yamaguchi’s smallish jumps and both had falls (Ito’s first failed 3A, Kristi’s nemesis 3S).

 

[Danibellerika]

You're breaking your own rule. Patrick and Evgenia both have OGM. They were from the team event, but they both have OGM. (I won't go into how unfair I think the team event is if you're not from one of the big 3 countries).

Evgenia does not have an OGM as her team got silver when Chan's got gold. Agree on the team event though as being there in person, while fun, compared to the individual events it felt like a glorified cheesefest. But that's JMHO.

 

[Spiralgraph]

My first thought was Tai Babilonia and Randy Gardner. They deserve an Olympic medal of any color, not necessarily Gold, but if not for that dang groin injury of Randy's they would have been Olympic medalists. My second thought, Michelle Kwan, but she at least had her chance twice to get that Gold, and she does have two Olympic medals. And her legacy is secure regardless.

 

[NanaPat]

You're breaking your own rule. Patrick and Evgenia both have OGM. They were from the team event, but they both have OGM.

Edit Oops you did say Individual.

Evgenia Medvedeva has an Olympic Team Gold Medal?