Dance - Free Dance

[rain]

V/M were spellbinding. Absolute perfection. They just give me chills. They totally deserve to be in the hunt for the podium next season (IMO they did this season, too, but with it being their first year in seniors they've done as well with the judges as could possibly be expected).

Best performance of At Last I've seen from D/L It just flowed effortlessly by. Loved it. Totally thought they should have won.

B/A didn't even deserve to be in front of V/M, IMO. Tanith made the obvious error on the twizzle, but even aside from that, the program looked really hard for them to get through. They looked like they were trying too hard throughout, and yet I thought they looked conspicuously slow, slower than I've ever seen them. Hope for better things next season. For once I totally agreed with Paul Martini in his commentary — there was no connection between them out there. I found the same problem in their OD.

Del/Schoe — I like this team, I do, but I don't like this FD. Some of the lift positions were simply ugly. However I did think they were clearly better than the Americans on this day.

Denk/Stav — good skate, no denying it. I would still give the nod to the Canadians. Found myself a little bored....the program seemed much longer than D/L's. Thought it was kind of typical ice dance stuff that seemed a bit tired. Totally personal preference, though I definitely thought the score in the FD should have been closer.

 

[chuckm]

I thought V/M were pleasant, but frankly I found their program boring. They skated on two feet much of the time. I much prefer D/W.

D/L's program was also PBB (pleasant but boring). Their 'young people in love' shtick is getting just a little dogeared. I'm afraid that this is all we will see from them from now on if they decide to stay in.

BTW, the OD was a TANGO--an Argentinian dance which is supposed to represent two former lovers who have become estranged. Tanith wasn't SUPPOSED to relate to Ben in this dance, but to resist his overtures and push him away. They won a medal because they did this dance so well, topped only by Den/Sta. They won this portion of the competition against DomShabs at CoC and CoR, against DelShoes at CoR, and against D/L at 4CC.

If D/L played passionate lovers in their OD, then they were misinterpreting the tango.

 

[rain]

BTW, the OD was a TANGO--an Argentinian dance which is supposed to represent two former lovers who have become estranged. Tanith wasn't SUPPOSED to relate to Ben in this dance, but to resist his overtures and push him away. They won a medal because they did this dance so well, topped only by Den/Sta. They won this portion of the competition against DomShabs at CoC and CoR, against DelShoes at CoR, and against D/L at 4CC.

If D/L played passionate lovers in their OD, then they were misinterpreting the tango.

I don't think the condescending tone is really necessary do you? As we're all well aware here, of course the OD was a tango. And of course Tanith and Ben were supposed to relate to one another in it. What nonsense! Former lovers resisting one another is a very passionate relationship. I saw neither relationship nor passion. Others, such as yourself, disagree. Fair enough. That doesn't make me an idiot who doesn't know what a tango is.

 

[chuckm]

I think Tanith and Ben relate to one another very well. It is DelShoes who are totally disconnected, and that is what has kept them off the World podium.

Rain, you seem to think that if two people aren't passionately in love, or who don't pretend that they are, they have no connection. That is hogwash.

Love is not the only relationship. Love is at one end of the spectrum, hate at the other, and in between there is indifference. The tango represents a former love turned to dislike, then finally to indifference.

 

[rain]

Rain, you seem to think that if two people aren't passionately in love, or who don't pretend that they are, they have no connection. That is hogwash.

Love is not the only relationship. Love is at one end of the spectrum, hate at the other, and in between there is indifference. The tango represents a former love turned to dislike, then finally to indifference.

What is hogwash is your interpretation of what I'm thinking. In no way have I ever intimated that love is the only connection two people can have. How ridiculous.

We definitely differ on the definition of a tango, though, if you think it has anything to do with indifference of two people towards one another. The tango is a dance of passion, not love — there is a difference, but passion nonetheless.

 

[gkelly2]

Khokhlova/Novitski are an interesting team, but their moves look more like Pairs than Ice Dance, and their programs overuse her flexibility to the point that he becomes nearly invisible.

This year, K/N finished ahead of two teams who beat them last year (Gregory/Petukhov and Faiella/Scali), but in turn Virtue/Moir and Davis/White, two brand new Senior teams, passed them.

That does not bode well for K/N, unless the results of this Worlds are due to the fact that the Russians were not on the panel, nor were any of the former SSR judges that usually support Russian teams.

I think K/N are much more expressive then Dom/S and Jana is so flexible... but Dom/S still overtake them in the class of skating

 

[Jasper]

I think the best performances of the night were really Den/Stav and Del/Scho... it's a shame the French didn't make the podium when they were so sharp and fast! Really much better than the Americans and Canadians in this stage of the competition, and their score wasn't high enough.

Will next year be the year for the French to make the podium with Den/Stav gone, or will the other top 3 teams and possibly the new junior teams get in their way? I guess we'll see what path the competition takes - I'm excited!

I'm with you - I can't imagine anyone is that good. V&M just astound me. They are truly gifted and what they have is very rare.

I completely agree. The flow they have on the ice doing such difficult steps is wow!! They have that rare ability to combine the artistry and athleticism absolutely perfectly. V/M for Vancouver!

Davis/White don't have the same relationship between each other yet and they're still slightly less mature, but wow their twizzles are the best in the business by far right now and they can keep up technically with everyone! They just need a little more originality to their lifts, which they will develop.

What makes both of the young teams so great and so polished is that they've been skating together for 10 or so years. They have maximum comfort together and there is no uncertainty.

 

[1795]

I think the best performances of the night were really Den/Stav and Del/Scho... it's a shame the French didn't make the podium when they were so sharp and fast! Really much better than the Americans and Canadians in this stage of the competition, and their score wasn't high enough.

Will next year be the year for the French to make the podium with Den/Stav gone, or will the other top 3 teams and possibly the new junior teams get in their way? I guess we'll see what path the competition takes - I'm excited!

true :agree:

 

[La Rhumba]

Andrzej Dostatni is originally from Poland, but he is now a US citizen. I don't know his figure skating background.

Thanks for the info chuck.

....so basically the TS Team consisted of 2 US Citizens,...quelle surprise B&A won bronze.....the only medal the US Team won at Worlds this year......call me cynical ....... :sheesh:

ETA: Not to mention G&P's elevation into the top 10 after the OD above the Kerr's who were penalised with a 2.00 point deduction for a trumped up infringement, meanwhile Melissa spends a part of the dance on her knees being dragged around by Dennis when I was under the impression this was illegal? The whole thing stinks!

 

[La Rhumba]

I thought V/M were pleasant, but frankly I found their program boring. They skated on two feet much of the time. I much prefer D/W.

WOW! V&M have the kind of magical quality I haven't seen since T&D, for you not to appreciate them but prefer a couple who are very good technically but still need to mature, I find

BTW, the OD was a TANGO--an Argentinian dance which is supposed to represent two former lovers who have become estranged. Tanith wasn't SUPPOSED to relate to Ben in this dance, but to resist his overtures and push him away. They won a medal because they did this dance so well, topped only by Den/Sta. They won this portion of the competition against DomShabs at CoC and CoR, against DelShoes at CoR, and against D/L at 4CC.

It doesn't mean all those decisions were correct. I saw 4CCs on TV live and the OD Judging was a travesty. Both V&M and D&W should have been 1st and 2nd there. D&L were error strewn and B&A had a wardrobe malfunction and it was not an impressive dance in the least.

If D/L played passionate lovers in their OD, then they were misinterpreting the tango.

Not at all. The Ballroom Tango is quite different, and this year's OD permitted both an Argentine and Ballroom Tango.

Isn't this quote revealing?

After their performance Belbin expected they would not medal, and had changed her cloths and was waiting for the bus back to the hotel, when she was called back for the victory ceremony. They were fourth in the Free Dance, but captured the bronze medal by 0.24 points. Isabell Delobel & Olivier Schoenfelder place third in the Free Dance for a fourth place finish,

From here:
http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/current/content/worlds 07.htm

 

[chuckm]

Thanks for the info chuck.

....so basically the TS Team consisted of 2 US Citizens,...quelle surprise B&A won bronze.....the only medal the US Team won at Worlds this year......call me cynical ....... :sheesh:

ETA: Not to mention G&P's elevation into the top 10 after the OD above the Kerr's who were penalised with a 2.00 point deduction for a trumped up infringement, meanwhile Melissa spends a part of the dance on her knees being dragged around by Dennis when I was under the impression this was illegal? The whole thing stinks!

GP Elevated to the top 10? G/P placed NINTH last year and dropped a spot this year, while the Kerrs retained their 11th place. Both G/P and the Kerrs were passed by K/N (whom both teams beat last year) and by newbies V/M and D/W.

I like the Kerrs, too, but they have never finished ahead of G/P and weren't destined to do so this year. Their FD was an unfortunate choice---the Native American theme hasn't played well before judges and audience. But both of these teams have lost ground with the judges this season.

For Ice Dance, the tech team sets levels and determines the legality of elements. FYI, the tech team downgraded one of B/A's elements. The top teams have mostly level4 elements anyway. The judges are the ones who differentiate among the teams by assigning GOE and PCS---that's what determines the standings.

 

[SolarisFyre]

GP Elevated to the top 10? G/P placed NINTH last year and dropped a spot this year, while the Kerrs retained their 11th place. Both G/P and the Kerrs were passed by K/N (whom both teams beat last year) and by newbies V/M and D/W.

I like the Kerrs, too, but they have never finished ahead of G/P and weren't destined to do so this year. Their FD was an unfortunate choice---the Native American theme hasn't played well before judges and audience. But both of these teams have lost ground with the judges this season.

For Ice Dance, the tech team sets levels and determines the legality of elements. FYI, the tech team downgraded one of B/A's elements. The top teams have mostly level4 elements anyway. The judges are the ones who differentiate among the teams by assigning GOE and PCS---that's what determines the standings.

I could be wrong here, but after the CD, the Kerrs were placed 8th, and G/P were 11th. After the OD, the Kerrs were 11th, G/P were 10th - hence the elevation. I don't think La Rhumba was talking about the overall placing, but instead what happened between the CD and OD to pre-empt the Kerr's grouping and final outcome.

 

[astimegoesby]

First of all, good news for those of us who were disappointed CBC chacked Weaver and Poje's FD on their nightly highlights broadcast--they showed it (along with repeats of D&L and D&S' FDs) during their ladies' LP broadcast this afternoon. And now that I've seen their FD, I agree they should be certainly proud of their Worlds debut.

True, they're not quite up to the level of Virtue and Moir yet, but to be fair, V&M have skated together for a much longer period of time.

And speaking of Virtue and Moir, they should also be very proud of themselves! I know some people think they deserved even better than what they got, but not too many ice dancers have been able to place in the Top 10 at their very first Worlds, period--that's a feat even Shae and Victor weren't able to accomplish and I can't think of another North American ice dance team who managed to do it. That alone is a huge accomplishment and I just hope they can place even higher next year.

I'm really looking forward to seeing these two teams develop and hopefully battle it out for the Canadian title once D&L retire/turn pro.

As for the top-ranked dancers, congratulations to D&S on winning their second World title and leaving their eligible career on such a high note! I admit I'm not a big fan of their FD (I'm not a big fan of that kind of over-dramatic ice dance in general), but I've always respected them since they handed in that petition at Vancouver Worlds and I'm happy for them.

I'm also happy that D&L managed to win their second Worlds silver medal. I admit I would have been even happier if they had won gold, but since I don't know enough about ice dance to debate whether their program was more technically difficult than D&S', I'll just say I'm happy for both teams and end it at that.

My biggest disappointment in the dance event was Belbin and Agusto's FD. I'm a fan of theirs and I love the music from Amélie, so I was happy they chose to use it and thought they could do it justice. Unfortunately, I thought wrong. Maybe it would have been a better dance if they'd had more time to put it together, but I was actually rechoreographing the entire program in my head as they were skating it. Not a good sign. I like this team, I love this music, and I just thought this could have been a much better program than it was. I did think it was an improvement over their 4CCs FD, though. Any chance they might just keep the music and choreograph a completely new FD to it next season?

 

[anast]

http://absoluteskating.proboards37....=display&thread=1165416557&page=18#1174681885

La Rhumba thank you for the great review!

 

[1795]

has anyone seen the final rotational lift by the 2nd french team?
pec/bou?
crazy
she in a "death sprial entrance position"
bourzat goes from a standing position into a sit position and back...

 

[gio]

Den/Sta are great. Deserved gold medal.
I'm a little bit sad for the Canadians who for the second year win the silver.
Congrats!!

Amelie music makes someone dream. Amazing music. I would like that Ben/Agosto use the music also next year and develop the program.

 

[npa]

La Rhumba , thank you for this rewie. I cam only say, that on russian eurosport i can here only - its unfair - Khohlova-Novitsky,Kerrs, Faella-Scally must beat V/M and D/W. Domnina/Shabalin must be on podium. Its all politiks againe russians skaters

 

[Melody]

La Rhumba , thank you for this rewie. I cam only say, that on russian eurosport i can here only - its unfair - Khohlova-Novitsky,Kerrs, Faella-Scally must beat V/M and D/W. Domnina/Shabalin must be on podium. Its all politiks againe russians skaters

Frankly, I think wherever you come from, you can argue there was politics holding back your skaters/teams, especially in ice dance. I really wanted D/L to win the gold. It didn't happen. IMHO, it's a shame. Does this mean that I get to cry foul and politics? What would that help? It isn't going to change the end result. What's done is done.

 

[La Rhumba]

I like the Kerrs, too, but they have never finished ahead of G/P and weren't destined to do so this year.

The Kerr's were 10th in Torino, G&P were 14th iirc.

chuck, as someone who does go on alot about the Russian influence and neighbouring *bloc* affecting judging, I think you underestimate the political power of the USA in the world of skating.

Thanks SolarisFyre for posting, that was exactly my meaning, as you explained.

 

[La Rhumba]

For Ice Dance, the tech team sets levels and determines the legality of elements. FYI, the tech team downgraded one of B/A's elements. The top teams have mostly level4 elements anyway. The judges are the ones who differentiate among the teams by assigning GOE and PCS---that's what determines the standings.

No other team got a 2.00 point arbitrary deduction which dropped the Kerr's out of the top 10, and prevented them skating their FD in the penultimate group, without it, they would've beaten G&P and stayed in the top 10, which for a small insignificant nation in skating like GB means an awful lot.

This is what the Kerr's themselves said about the random deduction:

http://absoluteskating.proboards37....=display&thread=1165416557&page=19#1174748783

Does that not sound *political* to you? At the most important competition of the year?