Ice Dance | Golden Skate

Ice Dance

layman

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
The Dance results from Worlds have somewhat restored my confidence in Ice Dance judging. I know that Domnina & Shabalin and the Russian Federation are fighting mad that their season of politiking did not result in a World medal for the team, but I for one am glad that the judges came to their senses.

Domnina & Shabalin's sudden rise was suspicious. Their suddenly beating technically stonger teams (Denkova & Staviski at Europeans) did not make sense given their level of difficulty (noticeable two-foot skating and lots of wild arm movements to cover the lack of difficulty in their foot-work). I think the judges at Worlds gave up the effort to push Domnina & Shabalin up and gave them the marks they deserved all along.

The French team winning Europeans was also odd to me. They may have good technique but they are probably the weakest team when it comes to performing. They never, ever, ever look at one another while skating. They don't relate to one another at all. She's always looking away from him. He's always looking away from her. I am surprised that no one has ever told them that they must look at one another to create the look of a "couple" on ice.

Furthermore, as tall as Olivier Schoenfelder is, he never makes use of the height. He's always hunched over and has rounded shoulders and a bent back. He never stretches out his long limbs to create line and this gives the team a rough, unfinished, ungainly look.

I think that bad posture and the lack of any kind of relationship between the two of them, should always keep Delobel & Schoenfelder off the podium (until they address these problems). The judges at Worlds gave them the marks they deserved.

As much as Gregory & Petukhov improved this season (much better line and posture, greater speed, more difficult technique, a better relationship between the two, better edging and flow, better choreography...just everything was improved with the help of their new coaches)...as much as they improved, Gregory & Pethukov's unwise choice of costumes at Worlds probably resulted in a costume deduction that dropped them a place in the standings.

All season long they competed in beautiful costumes (the burgundy ones designed by Johnny Weir) that really accentuated and highlighted their improved line and posture, costumes that helped tell the story of their free-dance and then they show up at Worlds in horrible white leotards that hide their line and wash them out to the point that you could not even see their free-dance (against the backdrop of the white ice).

What were they thinking? If I were a judge, I would have dropped them a place too.
 
I also was dismayed by G&P's costume change :( . I absolutely *loved* their FD this season, and the new costumes ruined it.
 
The French team winning Europeans was also odd to me. They may have good technique but they are probably the weakest team when it comes to performing. They never, ever, ever look at one another while skating. They don't relate to one another at all. She's always looking away from him. He's always looking away from her. I am surprised that no one has ever told them that they must look at one another to create the look of a "couple" on ice.
This is my favorite team to watch (Denkova and Staviski are way better dancers, but still...) -- and I think the reasons I like them have something to do with everything you don't like about them., LOL.

Yes, they don't seem like a "couple" pantomiming romance. To me, they put on a more interesting show than just gazing longingly into each other's eyes. They are just so FRENCH. About height and posture, yeah, he looks like a scarecrow and she looks like Marcel Marceau -- I love it! :)
 
They are just so FRENCH. About height and posture, yeah, he looks like a scarecrow and she looks like Marcel Marceau -- I love it! :)
:rofl:

Let's see...
D/L are just so CANADIAN. He looks like a housepainter and she looks like Jim Carrey.

D/S are just so RUSSIAN. He looks like a polar bear and she looks like Boris Pasternak.

B/A are just so AMERICAN. He looks like a computer and she looks like Mariano Rivera.

:think:
 
This is my favorite team to watch (Denkova and Staviski are way better dancers, but still...) -- and I think the reasons I like them have something to do with everything you don't like about them., LOL.

Yes, they don't seem like a "couple" pantomiming romance. To me, they put on a more interesting show than just gazing longingly into each other's eyes. They are just so FRENCH.

I have to agree. Not EVERYONE MUST, or should do, romance on ice. Nowhere in the rule book does it state this. If one has a preference for the "romance on ice" style, fine, but not all of us are into that type of thing. And I would say the same about Pairs as well. At some point this mentality came along that if a romance wasn't being played out, well, then, that's just not artistry.... :sheesh: What makes Dance interesting is the potential for various styles and themes; 24 Free Dances about romance would be simply tedious.
 
:rofl:

Let's see...
D/L are just so CANADIAN. He looks like a housepainter

If all housepainters looked like Patrice Lauzon, women all over the world would be having their houses re-painted every 3 months.....

I was unaware that being a housepainter was such a Canadian thing......:scratch:
 
I have to agree. Not EVERYONE MUST, or should do, romance on ice. Nowhere in the rule book does it state this. If one has a preference for the "romance on ice" style, fine, but not all of us are into that type of thing. And I would say the same about Pairs as well. At some point this mentality came along that if a romance wasn't being played out, well, then, that's just not artistry.... :sheesh: What makes Dance interesting is the potential for various styles and themes; 24 Free Dances about romance would be simply tedious.

...but this sport is ice "Dance." It's supposed to be a couple dancing and relating to each other on the ice...not looking away from each other and being so aloof (towards one another) that they might as well be alone out there.

It's not about romance, it's about "dancing." The couple need to aknowledge each other, acknowlede the existence of the partner, recognize each other on the ice, and interact. Delobel acts as if Schoenfelder does not exist. Schoenfelder acts as if he's alone on the ice and merely dancing with a prop. That's not dance. I don't know what that is, but it is not social dancing (where you have to have a couple interacting).

Delobel and Schoenfelder may be fabulous as individual skaters (in terms of skating technique) but you could substitue either for a broomstick and neither would notice the difference.
 
I missed Melissa and Denis's costumes as well... but I didn't know you could drop a place because of costumes

costumes do not show athletic anything and as such should not be a required element when handing out points (I'm nto saying skate naked, I'm just saying it should not effect the score in that way)
 
I missed Melissa and Denis's costumes as well... but I didn't know you could drop a place because of costumes

costumes do not show athletic anything and as such should not be a required element when handing out points (I'm nto saying skate naked, I'm just saying it should not effect the score in that way)

I said that tongue in cheek...but seriously, could the judges even see them on the ice? With those costumes, they might have missed the free-dance entirely. How do you score something that you cannot see?
 
I missed Melissa and Denis's costumes as well... but I didn't know you could drop a place because of costumes

costumes do not show athletic anything and as such should not be a required element when handing out points (I'm nto saying skate naked, I'm just saying it should not effect the score in that way)

:laugh: :laugh: I say skate naked... it might not raise your score per se, but it would increase viewership... sorry... will let the smart people post now... :o
 
I have to agree at some points. Most definately Dom/S were pushed this season, not only the Euros, but everytime they finished ahead of Del/S was absurd for me. But if they managed very well with euro lobbing, seems like lobbing for a world championship is a totally different thing. Probably Piseev is not so good friend with judges from China, Australia, Japan, USA, Canada or Bulgaria :rock:
As much as i love Del/S and find them to be one of the best couples lately., i have to agree that dancing without looking at each other is completely wrong. And this has nothing to do with the romance(and i am sick from couples overusing their greatest love)
For example you can't dance tango without looking at your parner's eyes, but looking above his shoulders. Thats why the tango is the worse OD draw for them.
 
I preferred Melissa and Denis's costumes to Mother natures son, sorry Johnny, I liked these better. Liked the others too, but better liking for these.

I thought they looked slower and some of the elements were not done as well IMO. For Example the between the legs spin flip thing, not done nearly as well. Her spinning / flipping 180s was slower, and one looked like she didn't make it all the way around and he muscled her into place. The exit didn't seem that clean to it either. JMO.
 
FYI, G/P did NOT get a costume deduction for the FD, either at Worlds or at any of their GP events.

As good as the judging seemed, it was the composition of the judging panel that made the difference. The Worlds FD panel had no Russian judge and no loaned Russians judging for other federations.

Every event where DomShabs finished first or second this year (CoC, CoR, Euros), there were multiple Russians on the panel: one RUS, one AZE and/or UZB and/or ARM. The one competition where there was a normal panel was the GPF, and DomShabs finished 3rd behind Denkova/Staviiski and Dubreuil/Lauzon.
 
FYI, G/P did NOT get a costume deduction for the FD, either at Worlds or at any of their GP events.

QUOTE]

Ok. Wasn't this supposed to be a joke about a deduction regarding the costumes? Heck, if it wasn't a joke then there are lots of deductions skating around ice dance... ;)
 
The Dance results from Worlds have somewhat restored my confidence in Ice Dance judging. I know that Domnina & Shabalin and the Russian Federation are fighting mad that their season of politiking did not result in a World medal for the team, but I for one am glad that the judges came to their senses.

I couldn't disagree more with your entire post [though I snipped it]. :no:

My faith was well and truly shattered at Worlds after an excellently officiated Europeans. :rock:

For once the CD and OD in Warsaw re the top 3 was judged fairly. I simply cannot understand the constant moaning from people about why DenStav did not win? Because they skated poorly in the first 2 portions of the event and the other 2 couples skated better - that's why! Did you read any of the Euros threads or actually watch the skating? :confused:

As for Worlds, if you think that because DomShabs did not win a medal there was no politicking going on, you are seriously mistaken, and need to read around a bit before declaring the event "fairly judged".

Many of us long time observers of the sport find Belbin-Agosto's Medal in this and other events to be wholly undeserved.

I suggest you read about the TS Dostatni here with his Torino blog, where he was also the TS. I know of another high level TS who requested permission from the ISU before giving an interview to a skating magazine, so how he can brazenly blog and take pics of "Tanith & Ben" as he calls them, when he's supposed to be an unbiased official, I find bizarre to say the least. :no:

The fact that the ISU appointed 2 US Citizens as the TS Team was totally unfair to the other competitiors, amongst them the Kerr's of GB, who were denied a place in the top 10, after a dubious 2.00 arbitrary deduction for a supposed "illegal element" in the OD - a trumphed up charge that no other TS had penalised all season long - with no right of appeal, consequently dropping them out of the top 10 after an 8th placed position in the CD. Having watched most of the event on Eurosport, the Kerr's were overall better than both Faiella-Scali and G&P, both of whom were placed ahead of them, unfairly IMO.

Belbin's faulty twizzles in the FD were ignored, and given a +1 GOE by some Judges - astonishingly! :confused:

I also totally disagree with your views of the DelSchoes, they are wonderful icedancers and a pleasure to watch. Innovative, creative and technically thrilling. That you don't appreciate them, but criticise a lack of connection, yet can't spot a total lack of connection this season between B&A, I find sad, but it's your right to do so.

Satisfaction with the results at Worlds depends entirely which Continent you come from, and am I surprised by the lack of outrage on this forum about the dodgy results in many people's eyes? Yes, I am actually. :yes:
Considering the endless criticisms of DomShabs results all season up to Worlds - a couple who IMO justifiably medalled at Warsaw in the top 2, and who in Nicky Slater's opinion [former Euro Bronze Medalist] "had the best FD in the competition". He watched practices and the event live, commentating for Eurosport.
 
. Having watched most of the event on Eurosport, the Kerr's were overall better than both Faiella-Scali and G&P, both of whom were placed ahead of them, unfairly IMO.
If the competition were just the CD and OD, I might have agreed with you, but the Kerrs were quite bad in the FD. They looked off the entire time.
 
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