What happened to the Russian Ladies?

[gio]

What happened to the Russian talents such as Julia Soldatova, Daria Timoshenko, Kristina Oblasova, Ludmilla Nedelina, Elena Ivanova???

Soldatova, Timoshenko, Oblasova and Ivanova all won the Junior Worlds. Nedelina was capable of doing triple axels.

How it is possible that Russia lost all these young talents? Why after the Juniors they couldn't be successful at Seniors? And did they all retire?

 

[antmanb]

I think that some of those skaters never adjusted after puberty, others just didn't have the skill to overtake the lock on the international events that were held by Slutskaya, Sokolova and Volchkova.

The russian ladies ( a bit like the pairs now) went through a phases of jumping back and forth from coach to coach and ultimately i suspect most knew that they would never skate up to the level of Slutskaya and Sokolova and alot were too inconsistent to even beat Volchkova. Without that motivation and possibilty of being able to compete on a major international stage the desire to train day-in day-out probaly start to go a little.

Ant

 

[layman]

I think a lot of those ladies were mistreated by the Russian Federation. I know that Nelidina quit skating out of frustration and depression. The pressure must have gotten to her. It was reported that she had a nervous break-down.

I don't know what goes on behind the scenes in Russian training camps but they do have a very high attrition rate. When 75% of your skaters quit early (for whatever reason), something is seriously wrong.

 

[flying camel]

Weren't they embarassed by the federation? Weren't they all called fat and out of shape. I remember reading that. I wouldn't skate for them either.

 

[layman]

Weren't they embarassed by the federation? Weren't they all called fat and out of shape. I remember reading that. I wouldn't skate for them either.

You must be referring to the President of the Russian Federation (Piseev), constantly calling Elena Sokolova "fat" and "out of shape" and "a disgrace" in interviews with the press. He gives a bash Sokolova interview every year. Lately, he's been bashing other skaters as well...the pairs, the other ladies, and the men.

 

[Wolfgang]

I think they quit in tears after Dick Button said they 'lacked fire'........

25% survival rate is pretty good, my Learn to Skate classes have a survival rate of 10% (= me).......

 

[blue dog]

Somehow somewhere between this thread and the one on Canada, I had an epiphany (thanks Millie--it was your post in the Canadian one that kinda woke me up)--skating, unlike most sports is almost a slice of life. I think I remember Christine Brennan saying that in no other sport do we have something like this--where when one thing goes wrong, your whole season goes down the drain. Kinda like real life--where one small thing can have a butterfly effect on the rest of the year...

With that being said, we can't protect every skater in the world, as sad as that may be. Sooner or later, these skaters have to face the real world, and although I disagree with what kind of pressure these skaters are facing and how they're being treated, they will come across this kind of pressure during their skating careers. We cannot shield them from fat comments from their federation head, or things like that, because face it--we say the very same things. As someone once said, skaters do read this board. If we can't protect skaters from us, we cannot expect to protect them from the federation.

Although we think these other feds (Canada included) is very harsh, I don't think the USFS is all that "innocent" either. We have coaches being allowed to coach privately after having done things I am not allowed to mention in this post. Just like Russia, if the USFS doesn't like a skater, they'll find a way to get rid of him or her. Webster and Kravette were placed lower and lower year after year--the same with Peter Breen and any partner he seemed to have, after having gone to Albertville. Nicole Bobek was asked to return a team jacket when she was being coached by Kerry Leitch, because they felt she wasn't even good enough to be a C-team member.

 

[chuckm]

At least the USFS doesn't publicly berate its skaters when they don't bring home medals, the way Skate Canada and the RFSF do.

 

[blue dog]

At least the USFS doesn't publicly berate its skaters when they don't bring home medals, the way Skate Canada and the RFSF do.

It doesn't matter whether it's done in public or private--it's done. We can't protect our skaters. Period.

Personally, I'd rather have them quit (the way they do in Russia) than develop anorexia or bulimia and keep skating.

 

[chuckm]

It isn't only the Russian ladies who've fallen by the wayside. Quite a few young Russian men who won Junior World medals have disappeared, never to be heard from again.

Stanislav Timchenko won JW bronze in 2002 and after a few years on the GP, just disappeared. Alexander Shubin won JW in 2003 and just seemed to vanish.

I suspect Voronov and Lutai will not be kindly treated after their dismal showing (19th and 20th) at 2007 Worlds. Andrei Griazev seems headed on a downward trajectory because of his inconsistency.

 

[blue dog]

Some of the Russians (both men and women) who are eventually pushed out by their fed end up in another country altogether. Daniil Barantsev, an ice dancer, is now in the US--Roman Serov ended up in Israel...

I remember the year the Russian jr girls swept the Jr Worlds...never to be heard from again.

 

[chuckm]

Daniil Barantsev and his partner won TWO Junior World titles (2000 and 2001). Soon after that, he left Russia for the US. Russia was so p-o'd about his leaving that they refused to release him for years, preventing him from competing elsewhere. He teamed up with his future wife Jennifer Wester and they first competed at 2006 US Nationals. This year they finished 6th and since Russia has finally released Daniil, they may get to compete at a "B" International next season, and we might even get to see them at Skate America.

 

[Tinymavy15]

i think that the russian federation gives thier skaters a lot of trouble unless they bring home medals by the cartload like evgeni and irina. I alos think that evegni woudl never return nextyear if the russian federaion was not at his back. I also think that that russian ice dancer hwo lost her father a few weeks before worlds would not have comepted if the russian federation had not pressureed her, or if not oressured, she knew that they would so.....

 

[Jennifer Lyon]

Some of the Russians (both men and women) who are eventually pushed out by their fed end up in another country altogether. Daniil Barantsev, an ice dancer, is now in the US--Roman Serov ended up in Israel...

I remember the year the Russian jr girls swept the Jr Worlds...never to be heard from again.

Maybe it's time for new leadership in the Russian Fed?

 

[hockeyfan228]

Daria Timoshenko won Jr. Worlds in 2000 skating for Russia. According to her ISU bio, she decided to skate for Azerbaijan immediately afterwards.

By switching countries, she had to sit out two seasons. She returned to international competition in the 2002-3 season, starting with Golden Spin in 2002. She skated in only two GPs: Nebelhorn in 2003 and CoR 2004. The rest were "B" level internationals. She placed 12th at Euros in 2003 and 2004, and was 8th at Euros in 2005. Her Worlds record was weaker: 31st in 2003, 29th in 2004, and 19th in the QR in 2005. She tried to qualify for Torino at Karl Schaeffer in 2005, but came in 13th. That was her last international event.

Her bio notes that she was coached by Igor Rusakov, who was Klimkin's late coach as well; he died of cancer a couple of years ago.

 

[antmanb]

i think that the russian federation gives thier skaters a lot of trouble unless they bring home medals by the cartload like evgeni and irina.

And let's not forget that Irina hardly it all peachy while skating for the Russian Federation. Remember 1999 world championships? Irina was not sent despite being the reigning silver medalist.

Ant

 

[gio]

Thanks for the answers about Timoshenko and Nedelina. Poor Ludmilla, she could have improved, if not pressured by the Fed. Pressuring the skaters in this way just ruin them instead of helping them improve. And we all know that this attitude is negative, when seeing the result of the new Russian ladies.
What about Oblasova, Ivanova and Soldatova? Do you have some info?

I think that also the French and the German Feds are also this harsh with their girls. The French didn't even send a skater at Worlds and Germany is changing every year the girl compting at Worlds (in those years we had Dytrt, Douchine, Fitze, Gulke ...). The results are very bad for both countries. Germany and France bot had champions such as Witt, Poetsch, Seyfert, Bonaly, Hubert, Gusmeroli and now have nothing. Maybe again the attitude of the Fed was negative and instead of helping skaters to improve, had the opposite influence.

Without those three countries, Europe is way below N.America and Asia in Ladies.

 

[krenseby]

Thanks for the answers about Timoshenko and Nedelina. Poor Ludmilla, she could have improved, if not pressured by the Fed. Pressuring the skaters in this way just ruin them instead of helping them improve. And we all know that this attitude is negative, when seeing the result of the new Russian ladies.
What about Oblasova, Ivanova and Soldatova? Do you have some info?

I think that also the French and the German Feds are also this harsh with their girls. The French didn't even send a skater at Worlds and Germany is changing every year the girl compting at Worlds (in those years we had Dytrt, Douchine, Fitze, Gulke ...). The results are very bad for both countries. Germany and France bot had champions such as Witt, Poetsch, Seyfert, Bonaly, Hubert, Gusmeroli and now have nothing. Maybe again the attitude of the Fed was negative and instead of helping skaters to improve, had the opposite influence.

Without those three countries, Europe is way below N.America and Asia in Ladies.

I would bet those countries are just not invested into figure skating! C'mon... For countries like France and Germany who have a long history of ladies skating (Katharina Witt, Surya Bonaly, Vanessa Gusmeroli, Tanja Szewczenko,) why can't they get at least one lady to make into the top 18?

 

[gio]

I would bet those countries are just not invested into figure skating! C'mon... For countries like France and Germany who have a long history of ladies skating (Katharina Witt, Surya Bonaly, Vanessa Gusmeroli, Tanja Szewczenko,) why can't they get at least one lady to make into the top 18?

It's strange, because France is strong in Men (three competitors at Worlds and one of them is the Worlds and Euros Champion) and Dance (Del/Sho are Euro Champions this year). Germany has a talented couple in Pairs (S/S won gold at Euros and a bronze medal at Worlds).
So, the question is, why those two countries are investing in FS, but not in Ladies FS?

 

[antmanb]

It's strange, because France is strong in Men (three competitors at Worlds and one of them is the Worlds and Euros Champion) and Dance (Del/Sho are Euro Champions this year). Germany has a talented couple in Pairs (S/S won gold at Euros and a bronze medal at Worlds).
So, the question is, why those two countries are investing in FS, but not in Ladies FS?

I'm not sure its a case of investment as much as talent. Sometimes there is a large pool of skaters to choose from and push in a country and sometimes there are none.

Ant